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Observing >> Deep Sky Observing

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Slow Astronomer
member


Reged: 05/01/10

Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Pleaides Nebulosity
      #5562640 - 12/09/12 03:24 PM

Can the nebulosity associated with the Pleaides be observed visually or is it only visible via AP? If it can be visually observed is the a particular filter that may help? I observe mostly under light polluted skies so I don't see it from here but I'd like to try from a real dark site.

Thanx, Dave

Dave


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Bill Weir
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/01/04

Loc: Metchosin (Victoria), Canada
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Slow Astronomer]
      #5562666 - 12/09/12 03:41 PM

No filter is required. This object requires dark transparent skies and clean optics. Many who claim to have observed the nebulosity have been fooled by moisture in the air.

Bill


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Slow Astronomer
member


Reged: 05/01/10

Loc: Milky Way Galaxy
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #5562739 - 12/09/12 04:27 PM

Thanx for the quick info Bill! I'm trying to plan a real dark site visit while they are still in the night sky.

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LivingNDixie
TSP Chowhound
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Reged: 04/23/03

Loc: Trussville, AL
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Bill Weir]
      #5562759 - 12/09/12 04:45 PM

Quote:

No filter is required. This object requires dark transparent skies and clean optics. Many who claim to have observed the nebulosity have been fooled by moisture in the air.

Bill




This.

I have never seen it and I have tried several times.


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blb
Post Laureate


Reged: 11/25/05

Loc: Piedmont NC
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: LivingNDixie]
      #5562850 - 12/09/12 05:44 PM

Quote:

No filter is required. This object requires dark transparent skies and clean optics. Many who claim to have observed the nebulosity have been fooled by moisture in the air.

Bill



I have seen it about once a year from the clubs dark sky site in a yellow zone. I also agree that seeing this object requires dark transparent skies and clean optics. I have also thought that it looked like my optics were fogging up, because it resembles fogged up optics a lot, but after comparing the Pleaides with other bright stars nearby and looking at my objective lens, the only conclusion is that this is how the nebula appears. So if you think you see the nebula, check out the Hyades and other bright stars in the neighborhood, if they do not appear to look foggy, then I guess you have seen the nebula.


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Feidb
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/09/09

Loc: Nevada
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: blb]
      #5562933 - 12/09/12 06:36 PM

I've seen the nebulosity without filters plenty of times.

I've also tried filters. As often as not, especially with the O-III, the filter actually hurt the nebulosity, cutting it down to almost nothing. Not so much with the UHC, but I've only tried it once and it enhanced the nebulosity just a tad.


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LivingNDixie
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Reged: 04/23/03

Loc: Trussville, AL
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Feidb]
      #5563000 - 12/09/12 07:12 PM

Quote:

I've seen the nebulosity without filters plenty of times.

I've also tried filters. As often as not, especially with the O-III, the filter actually hurt the nebulosity, cutting it down to almost nothing. Not so much with the UHC, but I've only tried it once and it enhanced the nebulosity just a tad.




Which LVAS site did you see it? I can't imagine Echo Bay or Nelson's Landing are dark enough. I have tried for it up at Cathedral Gorge, I couldn't really convince myself I was seeing it vs the glare of the stars.


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Feidb
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/09/09

Loc: Nevada
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: LivingNDixie]
      #5563061 - 12/09/12 07:58 PM

I've seen it at Redstone Picnic Area, Lee Canyon Weather station, Death Valley, Cathedral Gorge, Desert Springs Preserve, and a few other places I can't remember. All of them were dark enough. Plus I've seen it (the Merope nebula, I think it's called) at lots of other sites where I've lived. Of course, I'm using a 16-inch aperture... One home-made, the other commercial. That makes a difference.

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starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Feidb]
      #5563067 - 12/09/12 08:04 PM

Pretty easy from a green / blue zone with an 8 inch . Low power wide field . Say 25x to 30x works good .

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Feidb
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/09/09

Loc: Nevada
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: starrancher]
      #5563122 - 12/09/12 08:57 PM

Now that I remember, I had no idea the nebulosity existed until I completed my 16-inch f/6.4 in 1987. Before that, I had an 8-inch f/9.44 and never saw a thing except the bright blue stars so don't feel bad for not seeing anything. Of course, at the time I was using either a .965" Kellner 20mm eyepiece left over from my Sears refractor or my good old war surplus Edmund Scientific 32mm Erfle through a mirror that hadn't seen a new coating since 1968.

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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Feidb]
      #5563180 - 12/09/12 09:34 PM

I have seen it easily in my 5" APO under the dark, desert skies of Israel. It doesn't look like a veil, as it appears in images. It looks more like your optics are slightly fogged. It requires excellent contrast because of this. Once you see it it becomes quite unmistakeable.

/Ira


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MikeBOKC
Post Laureate
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Reged: 05/10/10

Loc: Oklahoma City, OK
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Ira]
      #5563199 - 12/09/12 09:43 PM

Foggy optics describes it. I have seen it faintly but unmistakably from dark sites in my 11 inch SCT, mostly around the cluster's brightest central star.

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Tom Polakis
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/20/04

Loc: Tempe, Arizona
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Slow Astronomer]
      #5563305 - 12/09/12 11:03 PM

Aperture is not as important as contrasty sky and optics. A good 6-inch should easily show the nebulosity south of Merope. On the best nights, you can see some of the paint brush stroke structure that shows up in images.

Tom


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BrooksObs
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/08/12

Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Tom Polakis]
      #5563350 - 12/09/12 11:44 PM

While on the subject of the Pleiades nebulosity and taking the question a bit further perhaps it would be interesting to ask at this point, and possibly to the astonishment to some here, how many have been able to catch sight of the exceedingly faint nebulosity that totally envelops the entire cluster by using only the naked eye? Admittedly, it does require skies that I would guess few of us have access to these days, but there must be some other old-timers among us.

BrooksObs

Edited by BrooksObs (12/09/12 11:52 PM)


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: BrooksObs]
      #5563416 - 12/10/12 12:47 AM

The Merope nebula, which extends far enough south to make it unambiguously not just scattered starlight, has been seen by me routinely in 10X50 binos, and is dead easy in 25X100s.

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David Knisely
Postmaster
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Reged: 04/19/04

Loc: southeastern Nebraska
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Slow Astronomer]
      #5563462 - 12/10/12 01:37 AM

Quote:

Can the nebulosity associated with the Pleaides be observed visually or is it only visible via AP? If it can be visually observed is the a particular filter that may help? I observe mostly under light polluted skies so I don't see it from here but I'd like to try from a real dark site.

Thanx, Dave

Dave




The nebulosity requires a good sky, but is slightly enhanced by the use of a broad-band LPR filter (Lumicon Deep-sky, Orion Skyglow, etc.). I find that with my 100mm f/6 refractor from my driveway in-town, I can't see the nebulosity in the Pleiades very often, but using my Orion Skyglow filter, it starts to become visible on most any good dark night from my home, although it is still pretty faint (requires averted vision). Outside of town at my dark sky site (ZLM 6.5), a filter isn't usually needed. Indeed, even in my 80mm f/5 refractor at low power, the nebulosity isn't all that difficult. The part that usually shows up more prominently is the area around and south of the star Merope, where a faint broad fan of diffuse light can sometimes be seen extending away from that star. The other areas of nebulosity are much harder to detect visually, although they can be imaged fairly easily in long time exposures of the cluster. In my 14 inch, I can sometimes see hints of a wispy structure to the nebula, but overall, it is more of just a diffuse glow of slightly varying brightness than anything else. Clear skies to you.


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timokarhula
sage


Reged: 01/30/06

Loc: Sweden
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: David Knisely]
      #5563581 - 12/10/12 05:18 AM

The nebula that stretches southward from Merope (NGC1435) is not difficult to see from dark skies once you know how it looks like. The smallest instruments that I have seen it was with a 8x50 finder and with hand-held 10x50 binoculars. It is clearly not fog in the optics since there is no "nebulosity" north of Merope and the nebula is therefore asymmetric.

/Timo Karhula


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Rich (RLTYS)
Post Laureate
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Reged: 12/18/04

Loc: New York (Long Island)
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Slow Astronomer]
      #5563756 - 12/10/12 08:53 AM

Can't say I've ever seen it.

Rich (RLTYS)


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Tony Flanders
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Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Slow Astronomer]
      #5564186 - 12/10/12 01:23 PM

Quote:

Can the nebulosity associated with the Pleaides be observed visually




For me, the problem is my eyes. I see halos around all bright light sources, which makes it essentially impossible to see the (numerous) cases of faint nebulosity around bright stars.

I can see the southern edge of the Merope Nebula, but only if I put Merope itself outside the field of view.

You can tell if you're seeing the real thing if the nebulosity is strongest (or present only) around Merope. If it's caused by fogged optics, it will be strongest around Alcyone.


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Dave MitskyModerator
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Reged: 04/08/02

Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
Re: Pleaides Nebulosity new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5564259 - 12/10/12 02:08 PM

I've observed said nebulosity a number of times from dark sites. Under excellent conditions, it's been fairly easy to see, especially the Merope Nebula (NGC 1435), through various binoculars and rich-field telescopes such as my 101mm Tele Vue refractor.

http://messier.seds.org/more/m045_merope.html

http://martingermano.com/N1435.htm

Dave Mitsky


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