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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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Patrick
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Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new
      #5562812 - 12/09/12 05:17 PM

Okay, this may be a crazy "versus" thread, but it's kind of where I'm stuck right not in my search for basically two scopes with a budget for only one. I have a CGEM mount with 3 OTA's I can use on it...an AT66ED, a C6 SCT, and a 6" ES Comet Hunter Mak-Newt. All three of those seem a little underwhelming to the mount, even though I can do a side by side arrangement if I wanted to. I'd really like to put a C11 Edge on it.

So, scope #1 would be a larger aperture instrument, ie the C8 EdgeHD. I'd also like to do some astro imaging and I think the Edge with Optec reducer might make a good package for some larger DSO's.

On the other hand, the Stellarvue 90mm triplet could be a great grab and go scope with excellent imaging characteristics. It could ride on the CGEM in style or on an alt/az mount of it's own for grab and go use. The C8 could also ride on an alt/az mount for grab and go, but it's longer cool down may be an issue. I like the longer focal length on the goto mount, but on an alt/az starhopping mount, it may be more complicated.

Need help thinking this through!

Thanks,

Patrick


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Gord
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Patrick]
      #5562835 - 12/09/12 05:31 PM

Patrick,

Do you store your scopes inside (ie. in the house), or out in an un-heated shed/garage? Also, do you like to view planets/doubles a lot (like any night you are out, that's your primary viewing)?

Clear skies,


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bcuddihee
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Patrick]
      #5562845 - 12/09/12 05:38 PM

Patrick, I would think both would do quite nicely for imaging with the addition of the Hyperstar system with the c8. For visual there will be no comparison between the two. I wouldn't worry too much about the cool down on the c8 especially if you add the fans to the ventilation panels. I had a very nice 80mm fpl53 doublet at one time and the views between that and a 90mm would be noticeable but not that much. The c-8 hd is another animal altogether with enough light grasp to keep you satisfied for many years. My money would be on the C8HD.
BC


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Eddgie
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Patrick]
      #5562917 - 12/09/12 06:29 PM

Well, since this is the refractor forum, then I would say "Oh dude, get the refractor."

But if you asked the same question on the Cats and Casses forum, I would totally say "Oh dude, get the EdgeHD 8" !

I personally have little love for 4" telescopes because they just don't have enough light gathering to make the expense seem justified.

I love my EdgeHD 8" and never got the sheer viewing pleasure that it has given me from any of the half dozen 4" telescopes I have owned.

But it is not exactly Grab and Go.

So, to me the central question that only you can answer is "How much would I use a Grab and go telescope if I owned one?

And if the answer is "Oh, dude, I would like so totally use it a whole crazy lot!" then it is a slam dunk.

But if is "Well, I think I might use it sometimes for quick looks," then you may want to noodle your requirements a bit more.

I would not call the EdgeHD Grab and go. It is very portable, and if you are going to use a bigger mount for it, the mount is more of an issue than the OTAs are.

But if you intend to do a smaller scope on a smaller mount, I would lean towards the refractor.

But I use a C5 for my Grab and go and find the extra aperture to be more vital to me that the wider field of a 100mm apeture, so my bias is always toward aperture.

But will say it one more time... EdgeHD 8" is just not quite "grab and go" becaues you need a bit more than a small Alt Az mount to hold well enough to exploit its extra aperture.


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Gord
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5563251 - 12/09/12 10:22 PM

My C8 Edge is my current grab-n-go setup. But that is related to my storage arrangement. I have a shed in the back that holds my astro gear. I leave the C8 Edge permanently setup on the EQ5 ready to go. I just have to carry it out of the shed to where I want to observe.

I had previously done this with smaller scopes such as the 80ED and the Tasco 4.5" newt. Works very well. When I got the first C8, I found I could do the same and it was no more difficult than the small scopes. And the C8 had so much more capability, except for wide fields and good off axis performance.

But with the awesome performance of the C14 Edge, I made the move to upgrade to an Edge version of the C8. That gives the ability to get perfect performance on everything.

The Edge is a little heavier than the regular C8 since it has a bigger diagonal, 8x50 finder, etc. But still manageable.

If I had to take the scope outside and deal with cool-down every outing, the SCT would not be my choice. That mostly applies to planetary or doubles for the most part. The star images are a bit softer/variable during cool down, but if I was just doing DSO's, it wouldn't be a big issue. I tend to look at the planets a lot, so I like having all my gear at ambient, ready to go.

I still like having the smaller scopes (many of them), but when it comes to quick outings, I more often then not grab the C8 since it's the same amount of work, and it will out-perform all the others. It's not unless I want to use one of the other small ones will I grab them.

Clear skies,


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Roy McCoy
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5563275 - 12/09/12 10:38 PM

Given you already have the C11, I’d go for the Stellarvue.

It is grab and go.

It can do AP.

It is different from what you have now and rounds out your stable of telescope types.

I can and do use my Orion 80ED all night, so it is a grab and go and grab and stay.

You can always get the 8" later.

Play with something new.


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Patrick
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5563336 - 12/09/12 11:33 PM

Quote:

I would not call the EdgeHD Grab and go. It is very portable, and if you are going to use a bigger mount for it, the mount is more of an issue than the OTAs are.




I have a permanent pier on my deck with the CGEM mounted on it, covered when not in use, so attaching the 8" EdgeHD OTA to the mount would not be that difficult. The thing that makes the setup less 'grab and go' is turning on the mount and fiddling with the electronics. I'm also considering a better alt/az mount for those truly grab and go times.

I'm with you regarding aperture, Eddgie...anything under 6" on most objects is not that satisfying to me. But it also depends on the object. I really enjoy starsweeping with my 15x70 binocs, or any binocs for that matter.

Patrick


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herrointment
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Patrick]
      #5563348 - 12/09/12 11:42 PM

"Oh, dude, I would like so totally use it a whole crazy lot!"

This really caught my eye.....


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Patrick
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Roy McCoy]
      #5563356 - 12/09/12 11:48 PM

Quote:

Given you already have the C11, I’d go for the Stellarvue.




Part of my problem is that I have too many scopes! The C11 is a CPC1100 fork mount and it works great as my outreach scope. However, for my own backyard observing, I have to remove the CGEM from the pier (or work around the pier) to mount the C11. I'd prefer not having to do that as it's a pita to remount/realign the CGEM when I want to image.

The Stellarvue SVR90T is pretty expensive and I'm thinking an 80mm ED/APO like the SVR80ED may be the better value. The SVR90T is about $1000 more than the SVR80ED. I realize it's not a triplet, but I have to wonder if it's something I could live with. I use my AT66ED refractor frequently with no problems.

Patrick


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Skyshooter
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Patrick]
      #5563425 - 12/10/12 12:56 AM

Hi Patrick, I have a 1990's C8 and an SVR90T. I obviously owned the C8 before the refractor. My primary purpose for buying the refractor was for imaging. More and more I would take little visual tours with the refractor before imaging sessions. I fell in love with (the only way I can describe it) the "crisp" views it gave me. The C8 beats it hands down on faint small galaxies and planetaries but for Globs, Open clusters and most nebulae the SVR90T is pretty hard to beat. From what I've heard the 80mm lomos are awesome. You're gettin' pretty close to the cost of the 90mm raptor there though. Try to find one near you to check out. Better yet, borrow !

Clear skies,
Ed


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Roy McCoy
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Patrick]
      #5563445 - 12/10/12 01:15 AM

Quote:

but I have to wonder if it's something I could live with





You mentioned the SVR90T earlier, but if you are interested in the 80mm class, I have to say I am very impressed with my Orion 80ed. I took this in trade for some work I did and was simply shocked at how good it is. Since then I have read here and elsewhere that the Orion has the FPL-53 glass. I can tell you that earlier this week I was following a moon transit across Jupiter and it truly looked like a photograph at 120x and 86x. At 86x I could see the moon as it passed the last quarter of its travel across Jupiter. It looked like a very round glowing light storm that recently passed around Saturn. It was very cool. Still at 86x, I could make out 11 bands with hints of swirls and festoons. At 170x I could clearly see them, though the image was getting dim and slightly grainy. Then last night, at our Wickenburg party, the views of Andromeda, Jupiter, Double cluster, and M42 were simply superb. I didn’t believe that such a small aperture would show Andromeda so well. Though I could not see them, I certainly got hints of dust lanes. On M42, I could see slight details within the nebula. From my home, I cannot see this. One of my new favorite views with this scope is low power luna viewing. With a 30mmXW I get 3.5 fov and 40mmxw I get 4.5 fov. Both are mesmerizing sharp. I could go on, but the point I’m trying to get at is I know that I can live with the Orion 80ed as a grab and go for a long time.

Quite frankly, had I not acquired this scope in trade, I would never have given this aperture a second thought. But now it is my new “during the week” scope. In fact I liked so much, I just bought a new tripod that makes getting out of the house easy.

Incidentally, I also have a Zenithstar 66 ED for birding and it does quite well at night, but the 80mm provides me with twice the satisfaction.

Best Regards,

Roy

Edited by Roy McCoy (12/10/12 01:16 AM)


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5563528 - 12/10/12 03:51 AM

Quote:

I personally have little love for 4" telescopes because they just don't have enough light gathering to make the expense seem justified....

But it is not exactly Grab and Go.

So, to me the central question that only you can answer is "How much would I use a Grab and go telescope if I owned one?




I agree... if is about how much one would use the scope...

Aperture.. it's really about choosing the right aperture, the right scope, for the situation, for the object. The brightness of an extended object does not depend on aperture, it depends on exit pupil. A 4 inch has more than enough light gathering for many situations...

So.. the California nebula is not much to look at in the 25 inch F/5 but it is in an 80mm or 100mm refractor. If one views the sky as a great number of faint objects best observed individually, then generally a bigger scope does better. But if one also looks at the larger scale features of the night sky, nebulosities and star fields, relationships between objects rather than solitary objects, then the wider fields possible with short focal length refractor are very much of interest.

This is one of those questions only Patrick can answer for himself. I use my small refractors a great deal. If the skies are clear, which they frequently are here in San Diego, I will be out there looking with something, most often with some smaller refractor. If I am out where the skies are dark and clear, it's gonna be a small refractor and something much larger.

Jon


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zippeee
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD [Re: Skyshooter]
      #5563813 - 12/10/12 09:30 AM

Quote:

More and more I would take little visual tours with the refractor before imaging sessions. I fell in love with (the only way I can describe it) the "crisp" views it gave me. The C8 beats it hands down on faint small galaxies and planetaries but for Globs, Open clusters and most nebulae the SVR90T is pretty hard to beat.




+1

I find myself spending most of the evening using my raptor, even though my 11 is standing right there. Everything just looks so good through it. Crisp is definitely how I would describe it.


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Patrick
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: zippeee]
      #5564903 - 12/10/12 09:05 PM

Quote:

I find myself spending most of the evening using my raptor, even though my 11 is standing right there. Everything just looks so good through it. Crisp is definitely how I would describe it.




Well hmmmm...

I'm not sure that would be the case for me. I've had far more fantastic views looking through my C11 than any 3-4" refractors I've looked through. That's not to say I don't appreciate the views through small refractors...I do. I especially like twin refractors!

Patrick


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Patrick]
      #5565463 - 12/11/12 07:13 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I find myself spending most of the evening using my raptor, even though my 11 is standing right there. Everything just looks so good through it. Crisp is definitely how I would describe it.




Well hmmmm...

I'm not sure that would be the case for me. I've had far more fantastic views looking through my C11 than any 3-4" refractors I've looked through. That's not to say I don't appreciate the views through small refractors...I do. I especially like twin refractors!

Patrick




A 90mm refractor and a 11 inch SCT are so different, I don't think I could rate one over the other, both must certainly have provided those views that will be remembered for a lifetime. For example, an 11 inch SCT is not well suited to scanning the Nebulosity of the Milky Way, it is not well suited for observing larger objects, multiple objects. On the other hand a 90mm apo is not well suited for observing globular clusters or faint galaxies...

Personally, I would always want to have at least one large scope and one small, fast refractor. They compliment each other, adding capabilities rather than duplicating capabilities.

Jon


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Traveler
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Eddgie]
      #5565478 - 12/11/12 07:34 AM

Not so long ago, the natural competitor for a C8 was...a 4"APO. At least that was the general opion say 10-15 years ago.

Now, it seems this isn't be the case anymore. What changed this?


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Gord
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Traveler]
      #5565566 - 12/11/12 09:12 AM

Quote:

Not so long ago, the natural competitor for a C8 was...a 4"APO. At least that was the general opion say 10-15 years ago.

Now, it seems this isn't be the case anymore. What changed this?



I think the average quality of the C8 has improved a lot in recent times, specifically with the Chinese sourced versions. My understanding is this is due in large part to better QC.

With that you also have the new EdgeHD versions with flat fields so that the images they deliver look perfect all across the field. The experience is very close to what I get in my refractors.

I think it's really these improvements and proper quality versions are letting the SCT's work as they should. They were kind of running in degraded state before, so were easy prey for any decent smaller scope.

Clear skies,


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bcuddihee
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Gord]
      #5565588 - 12/11/12 09:28 AM

Globulars through a 90mm scope are underwhelming to say the least. I have my c8se mounted on a celestron hd mount. Not quite as portable as it used to be on the standard mount but a welcome tradeoff in terms of stability.

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Jon Isaacs
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: bcuddihee]
      #5566182 - 12/11/12 03:55 PM

Quote:

Globulars through a 90mm scope are underwhelming to say the least. I have my c8se mounted on a celestron hd mount. Not quite as portable as it used to be on the standard mount but a welcome tradeoff in terms of stability.




The famous slugger Ted Williams was reportedly asked by a teammate, "I have trouble with the high, inside curveball. What do you do about it?"

Williams answered: "I don't swing."

Globulars are underwhelming in an 90mm scope and for some observers, most globulars are underwhelming in an 8 inch scope. In any event, just as Williams did not swing at the high, inside curveball, I don't spend much time carefully observing globulars with a 3 or 4 inch scope...

I enjoy my small refractors and my large aperture reflectors for what they can do, not what they cannot.

Jon


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Patrick
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Re: Stellarvue SVR90T vs 8" EdgeHD new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5566663 - 12/11/12 10:17 PM

I just ordered an 8" EdgeHD as my Christmas present this year! It's a better fit for the CGEM mount than the SVR90T would be and has plenty of aperture. I hope I won't be disappointed after all the accolades for the Edge. I opted to go with the CG5 dovetail so that I can mount it more easily on my Vixen GP2 or future alt/az mount for 'grab and go' purposes.

I still have my AT66ED refractor. I just looked at Jupiter through the little guy again tonight and noted that I was looking at some pretty nice views with plenty of banding on the planets surface.

Thanks for everyone's help on working through this! I agree with Jon that different scopes have different functions and specialties. It all depends on what you want to look at.

Patrick

Edited by Patrick (12/11/12 10:19 PM)


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