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jjongmans
super member


Reged: 02/11/12

Loc: The Netherlands
First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new
      #5565498 - 12/11/12 08:03 AM

My first attempt of unguided imaging with the ASA DDM60 Direct Drive Mount. My goal is to achieve 20 min unguided @ 2000mm f/8.

Straight out-of-the-box 5 minute unguided result.

M37
2000mm f/8 reduced to 1383mm f/5.53 with CCDT67 reducer
0.804"/px = FOV 33.6' x 44.6'
Unguided
1x 300s (5 min) Luminance 1x1
-30C
manual focus
bias subtraction + bpm
no darks / flats
HistogramTransformation in PI

full resolution

my setup

To achieve 20 min. I need to improve:

- Polar alignment, I have to repeat the PA software routine, I only did it once.
- Balance, that is very critical with a direct drive, i only did a quick balance.
- PID settings of the motors, I only did an autotune.
- Collimation, still not at the right spot.


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J.P.M
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 11/14/06

Loc: 65"01'N25"47'E
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: jjongmans]
      #5565528 - 12/11/12 08:37 AM

Congratulations from the snowy Finland! Looks to be one amazing setup.

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Konihlav
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 03/05/09

Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: jjongmans]
      #5565533 - 12/11/12 08:41 AM

looks good! congratulations to the new mount (BTW I should have a new mount too, within a month).

at this focal length the star clusters (that I normally find boring) starts to become interesting


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Leonardo70
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/16/09

Loc: Turin - Italy
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: jjongmans]
      #5565583 - 12/11/12 09:25 AM

Great setup .. congrats for the first light ..
Happy to see a lot of user of this scope...
I just created a new group about GSO RC owners:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GSORCAstro/

Feel free to join.

All the best,
Leo


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jjongmans
super member


Reged: 02/11/12

Loc: The Netherlands
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided [Re: Leonardo70]
      #5565984 - 12/11/12 01:48 PM

Thank you all.

@Leonardo70
I joined the group, hope many will follow.


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SL63 AMG
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/21/09

Loc: Williamson, Arizona
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: jjongmans]
      #5567019 - 12/12/12 05:43 AM

Nice setup. I think you are going to have a lot of fun with that equipment. I had a QSI583wsg and liked it quite well. I would have kept it but had to switch to an FLI because of the 30 second slow download times, which I believe have been corrected in your 683 model. The 683 wasn't yet released when I bought the FLI.

I have the Astro-Tech AT12RC, which I believe is manufactured by GSO. I am using it right now to image NGC2403 and I am quite happy with it.

Of course, it is much heavier than your carbon fiber 10" so I have a DDM85 mount to push it around.

Anyway, you image looks great. Enjoy your new toys!


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alpal
Post Laureate


Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: SL63 AMG]
      #5567068 - 12/12/12 07:18 AM

The ASA DDM60 Direct Drive Mount is fantastic to do that unguided.
I think we'll see more & more of these direct drive mounts.
You may need an OAG for 20 minutes though.


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jjongmans
super member


Reged: 02/11/12

Loc: The Netherlands
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: alpal]
      #5567238 - 12/12/12 09:48 AM

@Dave
The 683 is a bit faster than the 583, but unbinned it still takes 13 sec. No issue when subs are 20-30 minutes. For focusing I can use subframes.

@alpal
I'm convident that this mount is capable of 20-30 minute unguided tracking, but I already have OAG (embedded in the QSI WSG body) with a Lodestar autoguider.


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alpal
Post Laureate


Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: jjongmans]
      #5567821 - 12/12/12 03:17 PM

"20-30 minute unguided tracking"

I know they say that but then again
how accurate would your polar alignment & elevation setting have to be?
What if your elevation or latitude was 0.01 degrees out?
Also - I believe that that axis is adjusted by allen head screws -
not a large adjustable knob for fine tuning.
Is it really possible?

My bet is on using your OAG.


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jjongmans
super member


Reged: 02/11/12

Loc: The Netherlands
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: alpal]
      #5567947 - 12/12/12 05:00 PM

@alpal
This night I managed to shoot a 20 minute UNGUIDED subframe (through thin clouds, so signal is bad) with round stars!

IC410
2000mm f/8 reduced to 1383mm f/5.53
1.608"/px = FOV 33.6' x 44.6'
Unguided
1x 1200s (20 min) 3nm Ha 2x2
-40C
manual focus
no calibration
HistogramTransformation in PI

image

Too bad the weather is ^&*(^(, because I'm very excited with this mount!

Edited by jjongmans (12/12/12 05:49 PM)


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jjongmans
super member


Reged: 02/11/12

Loc: The Netherlands
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: alpal]
      #5567975 - 12/12/12 05:14 PM

Quote:

how accurate would your polar alignment & elevation setting have to be?
What if your elevation or latitude was 0.01 degrees out?
Also - I believe that that axis is adjusted by allen head screws -
not a large adjustable knob for fine tuning.
Is it really possible?





It is possible, I just saw it...
With the software you can do an accurate polar alignment routine, it's pretty simple to get within 5-10' PA.
Elevation isn't an issue, because the sky is modelled and also all errors of mount and telescope.
There are fine tuning adjustment knobs voor alt/az adjustments

Edited by jjongmans (12/12/12 05:50 PM)


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SL63 AMG
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/21/09

Loc: Williamson, Arizona
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: jjongmans]
      #5568298 - 12/12/12 09:16 PM

Quote:

@Dave
The 683 is a bit faster than the 583, but unbinned it still takes 13 sec. No issue when subs are 20-30 minutes. For focusing I can use subframes.




Thanks. Downloading image subs is really not the problem. The problem with the slow download speed rears its ugly head when making pointing models for measuring error.

Polar misalignment of 5-10 arc minutes can easily be corrected for 5-15 minute subs by using MLPT. When expposing 20 to 30 minute subs, a polar alignment <1 arc minute is really necessary. In order to get that accurate PA one needs to make a couple of 20-30 star pointing models, at least twice and often three times. This becomes painful with 13-30 second download times per image.

With my FLI ML8300 I can make a 100 star pointing model using 4 second exposures, a 1 second settle time and a slew for each sub in under 40 minutes.

Otherwise, I think QSI makes awesome cameras and I wish I had the built in OAG on my FLI.


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alpal
Post Laureate


Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: jjongmans]
      #5568612 - 12/13/12 02:32 AM

Quote:

@alpal
This night I managed to shoot a 20 minute UNGUIDED subframe (through thin clouds, so signal is bad) with round stars!

IC410
2000mm f/8 reduced to 1383mm f/5.53
1.608"/px = FOV 33.6' x 44.6'
Unguided
1x 1200s (20 min) 3nm Ha 2x2
-40C
manual focus
no calibration
HistogramTransformation in PI

image

Too bad the weather is ^&*(^(, because I'm very excited with this mount!




20 minutes unguided - that's amazing.
It must be true & it's almost unbelievable.
Maybe it's just because I am used to my NEQ6 mount.


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alpal
Post Laureate


Reged: 06/15/09

Loc: Melbourne Australia.
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: jjongmans]
      #5568615 - 12/13/12 02:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

how accurate would your polar alignment & elevation setting have to be?
What if your elevation or latitude was 0.01 degrees out?
Also - I believe that that axis is adjusted by allen head screws -
not a large adjustable knob for fine tuning.
Is it really possible?





It is possible, I just saw it...
With the software you can do an accurate polar alignment routine, it's pretty simple to get within 5-10' PA.
Elevation isn't an issue, because the sky is modelled and also all errors of mount and telescope.
There are fine tuning adjustment knobs voor alt/az adjustments




Ok - that explains it - it's electronically correcting all errors.
We are are welcomed to the 21st century!

I think I'll have to include a DDM60 in my future budget.

cheers
Allan


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jjongmans
super member


Reged: 02/11/12

Loc: The Netherlands
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: alpal]
      #5568632 - 12/13/12 03:33 AM

@Dave
There are two downloadmodes for the QSI, for quality (13s, unbinned) and fast download (4s, unbinned).


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Mark72
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/19/12

Loc: Munich, Germany
Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: jjongmans]
      #5568649 - 12/13/12 03:54 AM

Nice set up indeed.
I also can't get enough from RC 10/ QSI

Mark


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darkforce
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 03/05/07

Re: First Light DDM60 PRO & 10" Carbon RC, unguided new [Re: Mark72]
      #5569574 - 12/13/12 04:54 PM

Great Setup.
Looking forward, to see your spectacular pics

Immo


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