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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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Refractor6
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Reged: 10/20/04

Loc: Vancouver B.C. , Canada
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: saemark30]
      #5299509 - 07/02/12 05:38 PM

I think Jim has indicted he's having both in the scope family. I could have misunderstood that and be wrong

Both of these 2 dream scopes for this happy owner..right Jim


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idealistic
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 12/31/10

Loc: massachusetts
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: Refractor6]
      #5299515 - 07/02/12 05:45 PM

Well, one popped up on Amart (TEC200FL) this morning, Id say this is some sort of trade.

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Refractor6
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Reged: 10/20/04

Loc: Vancouver B.C. , Canada
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: idealistic]
      #5299554 - 07/02/12 06:05 PM

Quote:

Well, one popped up on Amart (TEC200FL) this morning, Id say this is some sort of trade.




I just checked out the ad..the plot thickens


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johnnyha
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: idealistic]
      #5299566 - 07/02/12 06:12 PM

Quote:

Yeah, me too. I have to ask though, have you considered a nice 10" Dobsonian?



Actually I have a 15" Obsession and my 14.5" Zambuto replacement mirror is due next month! I just got a nice quartz Protostar secondary too. I'm not an AP guy so this should work for me.


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Max Lattanzi
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/27/07

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: JimP]
      #5300456 - 07/03/12 10:47 AM

Hi Jim,

I just realized one thing:at the beginning you asked a straight question w/o providing any background information.
So it was something like "if you were to own just one scope, bla bla bla". And you had my reply (which I confirm).

But now, IF I had the chance (like someone of my knowledge ) to *already* own a 10” apo and a 8” apo... I guess I could very well agree with you that picking up the AP10” Mak would not be such a bad idea in the end.

Gosh, it has to be really really terrible from your side to be torn by such an untenable dilemma...
Well, good for you...! You’ll be surely happy with either one!

Awaiting for a field report and some pix.

Cheers,
-- Max


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saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: Max Lattanzi]
      #5300656 - 07/03/12 01:37 PM

Not me personally, but if I were you I would get both and put them side by side for a comparo.

Bye george if I had a 10" APO I would just use that.


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Paul G
Post Laureate
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Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: peleuba]
      #5300748 - 07/03/12 02:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If and when weather and busy schedules cooperate Marty Cohen, benevolent dictator of Company 7, and I plan on side by siding my 10" Mak with his AP 206 EDF. Should be interesting.




Great looking setup, Paul. I am somewhat local (work in the Baltimore area) and could bring a TEC160FL. I have never viewed through an AP 10 MAK.




I'll let you know when we get around to it. It would be nice to add the 160 to the mix, plus your expertise in evaluating optics would be helpful as well.


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Max Lattanzi
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/27/07

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: idealistic]
      #5302287 - 07/04/12 01:56 PM

Quote:

I just noticed a TEC200FL on Amart "located in the US"....




...and I just noticed that someone, who might have intentionally ignored this thread, grabbed it in less than 48h...


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rfic1
sage
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Reged: 10/25/05

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: Paul G]
      #5302298 - 07/04/12 02:01 PM

As I mentioned earlier as much as I would hate to pass on a TEC 200 FL I thought the 10" AP Mak was the best telescope for the desired purpose esp from a planetary imaging standpoint. I do have a TEC180FL and a TEC 200 f/15 MAK. I have been very impressed with the planetary images provided by the Mak. Although I have not compared them both side by side on the same night I believe the 8"Mak gives up little to the 180. The 8" Mak has shown me detail on Ganymeade. I have never seen such a feature with the 180. I believe there have been posts in the past from a owner of both a AP 7" f9 and the high quality Ceravolo 8" Mak Newt stating planetary views to be similar.

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saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: rfic1]
      #5302473 - 07/04/12 03:32 PM

One source of 10" Mak is APM, and 8" triplet APOs.
Intes made some 11" models as well.
Owner was disappointed by the views, due to the seeing here.


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Max Lattanzi
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/27/07

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: rfic1]
      #5302553 - 07/04/12 04:15 PM

Quote:

The 8" Mak has shown me detail on Ganymeade. I have never seen such a feature with the 180.




I have seen details on Ganymede (and Io) several times using a 180EDT. I would be really surprised if you cannot do the same with your 180FL. It *does* take a very-good to excellent night, though. It's a matter of seeing; a bit like the Pup. Probably you've been just unlucky on those nights with the 180FL. There's nothing wrong with your excellent refractor.

-- Max


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mark8888
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/24/10

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo [Re: Max Lattanzi]
      #5566938 - 12/12/12 02:50 AM

Quote:

Jim,

While asking this, you are certainly aware that Roland keeps in his own observatory a 10” Mak and a 180EDT side by side. I recall him stating more than once that, only when seeing is approaching Pik 9, thus *very seldom*, his Mak delivers slightly better planetary performances than the nearby Apo. As soon as the air starts moving a bit, the Mak lies behind (his words). That’s the reason why he has been always keeping the 180EDT.




Hi... I'm reviving this kind of old thread because I found the above quote interesting. As a person who wasn't aware of that, I wonder if anyone happens to have a link to documentation about it, like a quote from the man himself? I'd be interested to read what he had to say about it verbatim. I did a search but couldn't find it.

ps wow 12/12/12! nice.

Edited by mark8888 (12/12/12 03:32 AM)


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Mel M
super member
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Reged: 05/04/08

Loc: southern Oregon
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: mark8888]
      #5567779 - 12/12/12 02:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Jim,

While asking this, you are certainly aware that Roland keeps in his own observatory a 10” Mak and a 180EDT side by side. I recall him stating more than once that, only when seeing is approaching Pik 9, thus *very seldom*, his Mak delivers slightly better planetary performances than the nearby Apo. As soon as the air starts moving a bit, the Mak lies behind (his words). That’s the reason why he has been always keeping the 180EDT.




Hi... I'm reviving this kind of old thread because I found the above quote interesting. As a person who wasn't aware of that, I wonder if anyone happens to have a link to documentation about it, like a quote from the man himself? I'd be interested to read what he had to say about it verbatim. I did a search but couldn't find it.

ps wow 12/12/12! nice.




He has said his refractors are best for imaging and that there are better choices for visual.


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Paul G
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Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: Mel M]
      #5567988 - 12/12/12 05:28 PM

Since his refractors are nulled at peak visual wavelength I'd be interested in seeing the context of his comment; given that and the minimum guaranteed Strehl of 0.984 it's hard to imagine another scope of similar aperture being a better visual instrument. His 10" Mak, for instance, was designed as a no-compromise visual lunar/planetary scope.

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maknewtnut
Member
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Reged: 10/08/06

Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: Paul G]
      #5568007 - 12/12/12 05:43 PM

It's just this sort of thread that could be referred to when the never ending threads about how a refractor will always be superior to any reflector pop up. An associated myth are claims that a refractor is equal to a reflector X number of inches larger.

Since these sort of arguments seem to pop up without end, I can't help but surmise that many folks have never seen what a superb reflector is capable of providing. For that matter, I believe it's likely many of the same folks have never observed with an apo triplet any larger than 5-6" either.


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ValeryD
Vendor (Aries)
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Reged: 11/26/05

Loc: Kherson, Ukraine.
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: Paul G]
      #5568013 - 12/12/12 05:48 PM

Since I have essentially the same 10" Mak and a very similar (in performance on planets) a 178mm Fluorite APO, I have to say that I slightly disagree with Roland's estimations.

1. Mak starts to outperform the 178mmm APO from the seeing of 7 out of 10, being slightly better at 6 out of 10.

2. At seeing 8 out of 10, the 10" Mak wins with serious gap without any doubts.

3. At seeing higher than 8 out of 10, Mak wins hands down.
No comparition.


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Mel M
super member
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Reged: 05/04/08

Loc: southern Oregon
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: Paul G]
      #5568054 - 12/12/12 06:23 PM

Quote:

Since his refractors are nulled at peak visual wavelength I'd be interested in seeing the context of his comment; given that and the minimum guaranteed Strehl of 0.984 it's hard to imagine another scope of similar aperture being a better visual instrument. His 10" Mak, for instance, was designed as a no-compromise visual lunar/planetary scope.




The context was considering the cost of his refractors there were better options for visual use.


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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: Mel M]
      #5568148 - 12/12/12 07:27 PM

If the cost, the mount or the size is not an issue, then, aperture for aperture, a refractor is best (within limits). If, however, any of these are an issue, you'll have to compromise. It's as simple as that, in my opinion.

Can you afford a 12" refractor? I can't. Can I afford a 12" newtonian? Yup! Are they equal? No, but there are worse alternatives: No scope at all!


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Mel M
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Reged: 05/04/08

Loc: southern Oregon
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5568194 - 12/12/12 07:55 PM

Quote:

If the cost, the mount or the size is not an issue, then, aperture for aperture, a refractor is best (within limits). If, however, any of these are an issue, you'll have to compromise. It's as simple as that, in my opinion.

Can you afford a 12" refractor? I can't. Can I afford a 12" newtonian? Yup! Are they equal? No, but there are worse alternatives: No scope at all!


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark




He has also said refractors larger than 7 or 8 inches have problems that make other options more attractive for visual use.


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azure1961p
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Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: AP 10" Maksutov vs TEC 200 Fluorite apo new [Re: JimP]
      #5568203 - 12/12/12 08:01 PM

Quote:

Buying is not the question. Let's say neither would sell for more than the other. You walk into a store and can walk out with one, no charge. Which would it be?




A couple years maybe.

Pete


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