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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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Aboy
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
Question about canon modification.
      #5567578 - 12/12/12 01:24 PM

Hello Everyone. I have a question about the modification on the Canon XS 1000D and I was following the modifications instructions from Here:

Self modification


But didn't show how to add the Astronomik MC Clear Glass. After thinking about it I discover where I need to add the Astronomik MC Clear Glass, I just need to replace the low pass filter or self cleaning sensor unit. I did and also add the low pass filter underneath the board in
order to conect the ribon cable, I re-assembly the camera; but the camera didn't turn ON, so I check all the cables and all was good.. Them after trying, and trying I deside to re-install the low pass filter and the camera and remove the Astronomik MC Clear Glass them the camera works. It's already full spectrum but without the Astronomik MC Clear Glass.

So...I asking somebody: What I need to do in order to add the Astronomik MC Clear Glass and make the camera works?

If anyone can answer me that I'll really happy .

Thanks for all the help.

And likes always: sorry for my English


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Aboy
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: Aboy]
      #5568132 - 12/12/12 07:23 PM

Never mind guys I did already.

Thanks any ways


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nofxrx
Vendor (HyperCams & Mods)
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Reged: 07/12/05

Loc: Palm Bay,Florida
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: Aboy]
      #5568416 - 12/12/12 10:53 PM

The filter(s) have nothing to do with the functioning of the camera.
Even the self clean element, when removed, *on most models* still operates fine(meaning, obviously the self clean element is no longer there, so NOTHING HAPPENS, BUT, the camera WILL go through the self clean routine and not throw up any errors).
On other models, you will get an error when you first turn the camera on. Err 70 IIRC.
you simply go into the menu and disable the self cleaning routine, and you will be shooting in seconds.

What it sounds like to me, is that something was not fully seated properly (most likely ribbon cable) during your first attempt, and when you went back in and then reassembled, you reassembled so that EVERYthing was PROPERLY seated/connected/etc...

Also, yes. Gary's instructions clearly show how/where to install the Astronomik filter(or ANY replacement filter, Baader/AstroDon/Astronomik/Edmunds/etc) at the bottom of page 4, and the top of page 5...

Either way, glad you got it sorted out!

Cheers


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Aboy
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: nofxrx]
      #5568468 - 12/12/12 11:33 PM

lol... Sorry I didn't notice that.... But just thinking I did like the manual said.



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LeCarl
super member


Reged: 03/16/11

Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: Aboy]
      #5568539 - 12/13/12 12:47 AM

Hummm, I know that we must never use a camera without IR and UV cut, in particular with refractor, it give huge blue puffy stars, no sharpness, details and sky will be red (a lot red! damage the balance of the sky, and hard to ballance if near not possible... result will be horrible!)

MC Clear glass don't cut UV and IR... (this not help)

The best you can do is add an UV IR cut filter, or better again an clip on cls-ccd filter (that cut iv ir and increase Ha and nebulosity contrast... or reduce light pollution)
My friend have this setup ans very pleased with this!

I found:
On some scope or lens, if you stack stock filtered camera with the cls-ccd will give blue/green stars (hard to balance)
This mean it is better to keep the 2 filter at same time option away...

Edited by LeCarl (12/13/12 12:56 AM)


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Aboy
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: LeCarl]
      #5568774 - 12/13/12 07:52 AM

Quote:

Hummm, I know that we must never use a camera without IR and UV cut, in particular with refractor, it give huge blue puffy stars, no sharpness, details and sky will be red (a lot red! damage the balance of the sky, and hard to ballance if near not possible... result will be horrible!)

MC Clear glass don't cut UV and IR... (this not help)

The best you can do is add an UV IR cut filter, or better again an clip on cls-ccd filter (that cut iv ir and increase Ha and nebulosity contrast... or reduce light pollution)
My friend have this setup ans very pleased with this!




I hear about it too.. Francisco told me to get a clip filter and I got a: Astronomik EOS clip CLS-CCD filter.

Quote:

I found:
On some scope or lens, if you stack stock filtered camera with the cls-ccd will give blue/green stars (hard to balance)
This mean it is better to keep the 2 filter at same time option away...




Do you mean un-mod cameras with the CLS-CCD? or what do you mean? sorry I got lost.

Edit: Note: Also I do have a 2" Orion Extra-Narrowband Hydrogen-Alpha Filter to help if I need it.

Edited by Aboy (12/13/12 10:14 AM)


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LeCarl
super member


Reged: 03/16/11

Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: Aboy]
      #5569703 - 12/13/12 06:17 PM

Yes, the CLS CCD is PERFECT! ;p
(and you don't need any other filter or glass, as your camera is for astro only (you don't use the metering and autocus))

''''Do you mean un-mod cameras with the CLS-CCD? or what do you mean? sorry I got lost. '''
Yes, the cls-ccd with a un-moded camera is painfull to maintain balance, if the background is neutral, the stars will look greenish, and if stars look as they should, the background is not correct...

Ha filter best use with a modded unfiltered camera, this is used as filter and cut all UV, lower spectrum and IR (I don't have much experiences, but I will receive mine soon, already ordered...) ;p

But I think that you must not use cls-ccd with the Ha...


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Aboy
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: LeCarl]
      #5569958 - 12/13/12 09:09 PM

Quote:

Yes, the CLS CCD is PERFECT! ;p
(and you don't need any other filter or glass, as your camera is for astro only (you don't use the metering and autocus))




Astro only

Quote:

Yes, the cls-ccd with a un-moded camera is painfull to maintain balance, if the background is neutral, the stars will look greenish, and if stars look as they should, the background is not correct...





Tell me about it...





Quote:

Ha filter best use with a modded unfiltered camera, this is used as filter and cut all UV, lower spectrum and IR (I don't have much experiences, but I will receive mine soon, already ordered...) ;p

But I think that you must not use cls-ccd with the Ha...




That's correct... That's why I mod the camera Full spectrum.. I can shoot even in the full moon with the H alpha...


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fco_star
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/13/10

Loc: Texas, Midland
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: Aboy]
      #5570006 - 12/13/12 09:42 PM


I hear about it too.. Francisco told me to get a clip filter and I got a: Astronomik EOS clip CLS-CCD filter.

Quote:



You will be very please with your modded + CLS-CCD filter, there are many ways to get reed of the bluish or green color.
I think that what you have now is a full spectrum camera which is great mine is full spectrum too.
Are you using RAW or JPG to process?
Many guys here in CN use this recipe with excellent results specially if they live in high LP areas, and many others even use the CLS-CCD filter in dark sites too, just practice with it.

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Aboy
sage
*****

Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: fco_star]
      #5570188 - 12/14/12 12:13 AM

thanks my friend

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nofxrx
Vendor (HyperCams & Mods)
*****

Reged: 07/12/05

Loc: Palm Bay,Florida
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: LeCarl]
      #5570209 - 12/14/12 12:33 AM Attachment (43 downloads)

Quote:

Hummm, I know that we must never use a camera without IR and UV cut, in particular with refractor, it give huge blue puffy stars, no sharpness, details and sky will be red (a lot red! damage the balance of the sky, and hard to ballance if near not possible... result will be horrible!)

MC Clear glass don't cut UV and IR... (this not help)

The best you can do is add an UV IR cut filter, or better again an clip on cls-ccd filter (that cut iv ir and increase Ha and nebulosity contrast... or reduce light pollution)
My friend have this setup ans very pleased with this!

I found:
On some scope or lens, if you stack stock filtered camera with the cls-ccd will give blue/green stars (hard to balance)
This mean it is better to keep the 2 filter at same time option away...




But you do not NEED an IR/UV Cut filter.
Why?
Because the camera already has one!
We DO NOT REMOVE THE IR BLOCK Filter when performing modifications for AP.

THere are TWO stock filters.
1) LPF-1. Also known as the Self Cleaning Element, or Low Pass Filter, this is a filter WITH IR/UV Block!
2) LPF-2. this filter is ONLY a WB filter. It ONLY restricts wavelengths to mimic the human eye...
LPF-2 is the "Bad for AP" filter. This is the ONLY filter we remove for a "Standard/Baader" type of mod, which leaves the system with an IR/UV Block filter INSIDE the camera!!!

We ONLY remove/replace **LPF-2**!!!
****LPF-1 remains INTACT****
LPF-1 has to be kept in the system unless you want a Full Spectrum Mod(removal of BOTH stock filters and no replacement filters are used).

Ask anyone here. LPF-2 is the filter you remove....NOT the "IR/UV Block" filter of the system!!

Why do people THINK we remove the IR block filter for mods?
Easy.
Years ago the only option you had for replacement filters was a Baader IR Block filter.
But this was on models that have ONE stock filter. ONE stock filter that does everything mentioned above.
If you remove that ONE, and ONLY filter, you have a Full Spectrum(UNfiltered) camera.
So, your ONLY choice was the Baader IR Block if you wanted a system with an IR block INside the camera.

This is why people are confused. For years people have been saying "you have to remove the IR Block filter and replace it with another IR cut, but one that has more transmission at Ha, in order to get properly filtered images".
That WAS the case, on models upto the 30D(which is ANCIENT in camera years!!)

This is NO LONGER the case!

What is the purpose of a replacement filter for LPF-2??
AF calibration remains intact. **THAT IS IT!**
Whether the replacement for LPF-2 is a Baader, Astronomik Clear Glass, AstroDon, Edmunds Clear, etc, etc, etc... the only point of installing a replacement filter is to keep AF intact. that's it..
Otherwise, your system will actually perform BETTER, with tighter stellar images(less bloat), with the least amount of glass/filters installed. it is simple physics. not rocket science.

Again, this is all assuming that ****LPF-1 remains INTACT**** post-mod.
If LPF-1 is in there, you can use ANYthing or NOTHING for the replacement of LPF-2!

IMHO, if you wanted the absolute best performance, that would be a full spectrum modified camera and then install a CLS-CCD filter, or any IR/UV Block or Luminance Filter in the mix somewhere to block IR/UV..that will deliver the absolute sharpest stellar images, least amount of star bloat, and possibly even slightly more data!!

But for 90% of us, the "Standard" mod(also known as the Baader Mod, even though a Baader filter is NOT needed!!) does the trick just fine.


I am not saying I am an expert on this, and you by no means have to take my word for it, you can do what you like..
But with 6+ years of modifications, 400+ ASTRO mods(not including other mods!), I would like to think my opinion holds some kind of value..
If not, that is perfectly fine, too!


Here is an image showing the dual filter system used in 90% of newer models(ALL Canon from the 400D and newer, and most Nikons)

Good luck!

Edited by nofxrx (12/14/12 12:35 AM)


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Aboy
sage
*****

Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: fco_star]
      #5570260 - 12/14/12 02:32 AM

Hey Francisco do you have your cameras with Tyne low pass filter and use the CLS-CCD Filter?

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Aboy
sage
*****

Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: nofxrx]
      #5570265 - 12/14/12 02:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hummm, I know that we must never use a camera without IR and UV cut, in particular with refractor, it give huge blue puffy stars, no sharpness, details and sky will be red (a lot red! damage the balance of the sky, and hard to ballance if near not possible... result will be horrible!)

MC Clear glass don't cut UV and IR... (this not help)

The best you can do is add an UV IR cut filter, or better again an clip on cls-ccd filter (that cut iv ir and increase Ha and nebulosity contrast... or reduce light pollution)
My friend have this setup ans very pleased with this!

I found:
On some scope or lens, if you stack stock filtered camera with the cls-ccd will give blue/green stars (hard to balance)
This mean it is better to keep the 2 filter at same time option away...




But you do not NEED an IR/UV Cut filter.
Why?
Because the camera already has one!
We DO NOT REMOVE THE IR BLOCK Filter when performing modifications for AP.

THere are TWO stock filters.
1) LPF-1. Also known as the Self Cleaning Element, or Low Pass Filter, this is a filter WITH IR/UV Block!
2) LPF-2. this filter is ONLY a WB filter. It ONLY restricts wavelengths to mimic the human eye...
LPF-2 is the "Bad for AP" filter. This is the ONLY filter we remove for a "Standard/Baader" type of mod, which leaves the system with an IR/UV Block filter INSIDE the camera!!!

We ONLY remove/replace **LPF-2**!!!
****LPF-1 remains INTACT****
LPF-1 has to be kept in the system unless you want a Full Spectrum Mod(removal of BOTH stock filters and no replacement filters are used).

Ask anyone here. LPF-2 is the filter you remove....NOT the "IR/UV Block" filter of the system!!

Why do people THINK we remove the IR block filter for mods?
Easy.
Years ago the only option you had for replacement filters was a Baader IR Block filter.
But this was on models that have ONE stock filter. ONE stock filter that does everything mentioned above.
If you remove that ONE, and ONLY filter, you have a Full Spectrum(UNfiltered) camera.
So, your ONLY choice was the Baader IR Block if you wanted a system with an IR block INside the camera.

This is why people are confused. For years people have been saying "you have to remove the IR Block filter and replace it with another IR cut, but one that has more transmission at Ha, in order to get properly filtered images".
That WAS the case, on models upto the 30D(which is ANCIENT in camera years!!)

This is NO LONGER the case!

What is the purpose of a replacement filter for LPF-2??
AF calibration remains intact. **THAT IS IT!**
Whether the replacement for LPF-2 is a Baader, Astronomik Clear Glass, AstroDon, Edmunds Clear, etc, etc, etc... the only point of installing a replacement filter is to keep AF intact. that's it..
Otherwise, your system will actually perform BETTER, with tighter stellar images(less bloat), with the least amount of glass/filters installed. it is simple physics. not rocket science.

Again, this is all assuming that ****LPF-1 remains INTACT**** post-mod.
If LPF-1 is in there, you can use ANYthing or NOTHING for the replacement of LPF-2!

IMHO, if you wanted the absolute best performance, that would be a full spectrum modified camera and then install a CLS-CCD filter, or any IR/UV Block or Luminance Filter in the mix somewhere to block IR/UV..that will deliver the absolute sharpest stellar images, least amount of star bloat, and possibly even slightly more data!!

But for 90% of us, the "Standard" mod(also known as the Baader Mod, even though a Baader filter is NOT needed!!) does the trick just fine.


I am not saying I am an expert on this, and you by no means have to take my word for it, you can do what you like..
But with 6+ years of modifications, 400+ ASTRO mods(not including other mods!), I would like to think my opinion holds some kind of value..
If not, that is perfectly fine, too!


Here is an image showing the dual filter system used in 90% of newer models(ALL Canon from the 400D and newer, and most Nikons)

Good luck!




Them if this is true.... Why in the hell I waste my money for an Astronomik Clear Glass and one CLS-CCD filter.... Damn... I am an IDIOT

Edited by Aboy (12/14/12 02:40 AM)


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JustinLT
member


Reged: 07/25/12

Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: nofxrx]
      #5570354 - 12/14/12 06:18 AM

Holy *BLEEP*...
This post just ruined all my knowledge on all DSLR modification thing... I was planning to do this for a while, but wanted to collect some more info.
If the first filter really filters IR/UV, why the hell people are buying all those baaded IR/UV cut filters? Does it mean, that only the 2nd filter filters the H-alpha light?


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Aboy
sage
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: JustinLT]
      #5570410 - 12/14/12 07:30 AM

It's no like the filter it's bad...

The CLS vs the CLS-CCD:

CLS:
Technical Data
92% transmission at 486nm (H-beta)
92% transmission at 496nm (OIII)
92% transmission at 501nm (OIII)
97% transmission at 656nm (H alpha)
pass from 450 to 540nm and beyond 650nm

CLS-CCD:
Technical Data
95% transmission at 486nm (H-beta)
95% transmission at 496nm (OIII)
95% transmission at 501nm (OIII)
97% transmission at 656nm (H-alpha)
pass from 450 to 520nm and from 640 to 690nm

I do prefer the CLS-CCD. My complain it's about the Low Pass Filter... I read around before mod my camera and at least the 92% or 93% agree to remove the Low Pass Filter when you Use the CLS-CCD... But now with the information from nofxrx I just feel like..... I still have the Low Pass Filter... But Now I don't know what to do.


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mmalik
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/13/12

Loc: USA
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: nofxrx]
      #5570414 - 12/14/12 07:35 AM

Quote:

There are TWO stock filters.
1) LPF-1. Also known as the Self Cleaning Element, or Low Pass Filter, this is a filter WITH IR/UV Block!
2) LPF-2. this filter is ONLY a WB filter. It ONLY restricts wavelengths to mimic the human eye...
LPF-2 is the "Bad for AP" filter. This is the ONLY filter we remove for a "Standard/Baader" type of mod, which leaves the system with an IR/UV Block filter INSIDE the camera!!!




Brent, if I could get 'true'/'false' answers to these two questions, would appreciate:

1. Stock LPF-1 (IR/UV Block) does NOT block H-alpha?
2. Stock LPF-2 (WB filter) blocks/restricts H-alpha?


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fco_star
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/13/10

Loc: Texas, Midland
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: Aboy]
      #5570473 - 12/14/12 08:47 AM

Quote:

Hey Francisco do you have your cameras with Tyne low pass filter and use the CLS-CCD Filter?




Hi Aboy, I have the full spectrum modded by Brent, having a CLS-CCD is a plus if you decided in the future to go for a full spectrum, Im not an expert and I dont want to confuse you more.


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Aboy
sage
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Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: fco_star]
      #5570535 - 12/14/12 09:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hey Francisco do you have your cameras with Tyne low pass filter and use the CLS-CCD Filter?




Hi Aboy, I have the full spectrum modded by Brent, having a CLS-CCD is a plus if you decided in the future to go for a full spectrum, Im not an expert and I dont want to confuse you more.




I mod my camera to full spectrum already.... I don't confuse me at all.. You give me your opinion and I do really appreciate it.

The thing is if it's better the Low Pass Filter or like I did with the Klarglass... Just that... Cuz I'm already spend the money on the Glass.


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LeCarl
super member


Reged: 03/16/11

Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: Aboy]
      #5570600 - 12/14/12 10:26 AM

I mean, never remove the LPF1 filter...

When I talk full spectrum, it mean no filter on sensor, but the LPF1 is on, because it's a cleaning filter, supposed to don't have any filter activity, NOT cut any uv or ir...

I never remove this one! the cmos is like static charge magnet to the dust... so you need the LPF1! ;p

Edited by LeCarl (12/14/12 10:28 AM)


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Aboy
sage
*****

Reged: 07/17/12

Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: LeCarl]
      #5570643 - 12/14/12 10:56 AM

Quote:

I mean, never remove the LPF1 filter...

When I talk full spectrum, it mean no filter on sensor, but the LPF1 is on, because it's a cleaning filter, supposed to don't have any filter activity, NOT cut any uv or ir...

I never remove this one! the cmos is like static charge magnet to the dust... so you need the LPF1! ;p




But with the clear class I put from Astronomic I can fit the low pass filter on... Is no space for it...

Them if the same ... I just waste my money in the clear glass


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