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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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nofxrx
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: mmalik]
      #5582619 - 12/21/12 02:47 PM

Quote:


1. What's the availability for Baader BCF1 & BCF2 filters as LPF-2 replacement; hence who among all is offering these NEW Baader mods at this time?




AFAIK everyone does. I have only been receiving the NEW filters from Alpine Astro(which SHOULD be where everyone gets their Baader filters from...?) for months now...I have not seen an old one in quite some time.

Quote:

2. Hutech hasn't been discussed in this thread so far; Hutech website... refers to LPF-2 replacement as 'Astronomical Filter'; I am wondering what kind of LPF-2 filter Hutech has been using in the past and/or are going to use in future. In other words, does Hutech fall under Baader umbrella when it comes to LPF-2 replacement or do they use something proprietary?




No clue. Most everyone I know that has Hutech cameras live overseas and I have never seen one myself...nor asked anyone about them...maybe someone else can answer this one?

Quote:

3. What's on the horizon for Canon EOS 5D Mark III and 6D when it comes to 'latest' Baader as LPF-2 replacement offerings? These seem to be missing in action.




No, I dont think they are missing at all....
The Filter for the 5D Mark II WILL fit/work/operate just as perfectly for the 5D Mark III and the 6D...it also fits the 1Ds Mark I-III....so unless Canon does some major changes to the 5D Mark IV, or the 6D Mark II, the new Baader 5DII filter should work perfectly for every Full Frame offering from Canon...
OH, AND from Nikon.
I have done a TON of Nikon mods and they use the Baader filters just as well. They require a bit more effort than Canons do to keep AF calibration and everything working smoothly

If Baader uses the new BCF-1 design/characteristics for the new 5D Mark II/III/6D filter, we should be 100% good to go with using it as the "standard"..

IMHO..


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mmalik
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: nofxrx]
      #5582804 - 12/21/12 04:46 PM

Quote:

If Baader uses the new BCF-1 design/characteristics for the new 5D Mark II/III/6D filter, we should be 100% good to go with using it as the "standard"..




Thanks Brent; you use the word 'If' and hence missed part of my question. As I mentioned above, there is BCF2 for 5D Mark II; please see this... info. So let me rephrase the question...

•What's the availability for Baader-BCF2 filter as LPF-2 replacement for Canon EOS 5D Mark II; hence who among all is offering this NEW Baader mod at this time for 5D Mark II (and for that matter 5D Mark III & 6D as well)?

•While we are on the subject, is this... BCF2 or older version for 5D Mark II?

Edited by mmalik (12/21/12 04:59 PM)


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nofxrx
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: mmalik]
      #5583390 - 12/21/12 11:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If Baader uses the new BCF-1 design/characteristics for the new 5D Mark II/III/6D filter, we should be 100% good to go with using it as the "standard"..




Thanks Brent; you use the word 'If' and hence missed part of my question. As I mentioned above, there is BCF2 for 5D Mark II; please see this... info. So let me rephrase the question...

•What's the availability for Baader-BCF2 filter as LPF-2 replacement for Canon EOS 5D Mark II; hence who among all is offering this NEW Baader mod at this time for 5D Mark II (and for that matter 5D Mark III & 6D as well)?

•While we are on the subject, is this... BCF2 or older version for 5D Mark II?




I didnt really miss the question, I thought I answered it, or atleast was under the impression you were on the same page as I was, my mistake, sorry!

To answer the question (again, but hopefully 'properly' this time):
No. Baader DOES NOT have a new filter out for the 5D Mark II, **YET**!!

In fact, if you didnt know any better, when looking at Alpine Astro's site, I cannot see ANY difference in the advertisement/info/etc for the FBCF-400D filter, which is NOW (apparently) been replaced with this new BCF-1.
The new filter's box JUST says "BCF-1", not "FBCF-400D" like the OLD filter's box label.
But the website still says "FBCF-400D".
SO...my guess is:
1) they have not updated the site
2) they simply replaced the old filter for a newer/better one, and didnt see the need to 'justify' it to the masses
3)....?

I mean, who knows? maybe Hap or Gary have heard a bit more about this??


Just so no confusion, MY answer to your questions:

1) Technically, right this second the FBCF-5DII filter is OUT OF STOCK, but my rep says they have no clue when they will be back in stock. I think everyone is able to offer the FBCF-5DII atm...atleast, I have 2 left in my stock..
And let's not forget, that just because the CURRENT 5DII filter does NOT block a lot of IR, but WHEN USED WITH LPF-1 you get brilliant spectral coverage and blocking in the UV/IR...
my point is I would not wait to see what happens with the new filter(s) if you are looking for a mod..there is always a new model coming out, and there is zero guarantee that it will be better than the old version!

1.5 & 2) I do NOT think the filter in the link is to the NEW filter. so again, until they are back in stock again at Alpine we will not know if it is the same filter or a newer/better one...

Unfortunately, that isnt a solid reply/answer for you..but that's all I got ATM..sorry.

I think we will be fine though..
We have the new BCF-1 for every APS-C body Canon AND Nikon make..
And soon, HOPEFULLY, a new BCF-1FF(for Full Frame, maybe? ) for all Full Frame Canon and Nikon bodies.
Oh, and yes. They are also usable for Sony(DSLR and NEX systems), and a few other brands.
It is crazy, but Canon mods only occupy maybe 55-60% of my business in the last 6 months..
ANd I think that is a great thing. Nikon deserves to have as much recognition in the AP community as Canon does. both have downright brilliant systems.
But Nikon seems to be puting a LOT more time/$/effort into their sensors....even though IMHO they just buy them from Sony LOL


Sorry. rambling again..
Cheers


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mmalik
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: nofxrx]
      #5583601 - 12/22/12 05:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If Baader uses the new BCF-1 design/characteristics for the new 5D Mark II/III/6D filter, we should be 100% good to go with using it as the "standard"..




Thanks Brent; you use the word 'If' and hence missed part of my question. As I mentioned above, there is BCF2 for 5D Mark II; please see this... info. So let me rephrase the question...

•What's the availability for Baader-BCF2 filter as LPF-2 replacement for Canon EOS 5D Mark II; hence who among all is offering this NEW Baader mod at this time for 5D Mark II (and for that matter 5D Mark III & 6D as well)?

•While we are on the subject, is this... BCF2 or older version for 5D Mark II?




I didnt really miss the question, I thought I answered it, or atleast was under the impression you were on the same page as I was, my mistake, sorry!

To answer the question (again, but hopefully 'properly' this time):
No. Baader DOES NOT have a new filter out for the 5D Mark II, **YET**!!

In fact, if you didnt know any better, when looking at Alpine Astro's site, I cannot see ANY difference in the advertisement/info/etc for the FBCF-400D filter, which is NOW (apparently) been replaced with this new BCF-1.
The new filter's box JUST says "BCF-1", not "FBCF-400D" like the OLD filter's box label.
But the website still says "FBCF-400D".
SO...my guess is:
1) they have not updated the site
2) they simply replaced the old filter for a newer/better one, and didnt see the need to 'justify' it to the masses
3)....?

I mean, who knows? maybe Hap or Gary have heard a bit more about this??


Just so no confusion, MY answer to your questions:

1) Technically, right this second the FBCF-5DII filter is OUT OF STOCK, but my rep says they have no clue when they will be back in stock. I think everyone is able to offer the FBCF-5DII atm...atleast, I have 2 left in my stock..
And let's not forget, that just because the CURRENT 5DII filter does NOT block a lot of IR, but WHEN USED WITH LPF-1 you get brilliant spectral coverage and blocking in the UV/IR...
my point is I would not wait to see what happens with the new filter(s) if you are looking for a mod..there is always a new model coming out, and there is zero guarantee that it will be better than the old version!

1.5 & 2) I do NOT think the filter in the link is to the NEW filter. so again, until they are back in stock again at Alpine we will not know if it is the same filter or a newer/better one...

Unfortunately, that isnt a solid reply/answer for you..but that's all I got ATM..sorry.

I think we will be fine though..
We have the new BCF-1 for every APS-C body Canon AND Nikon make..
And soon, HOPEFULLY, a new BCF-1FF(for Full Frame, maybe? ) for all Full Frame Canon and Nikon bodies.
Oh, and yes. They are also usable for Sony(DSLR and NEX systems), and a few other brands.
It is crazy, but Canon mods only occupy maybe 55-60% of my business in the last 6 months..
ANd I think that is a great thing. Nikon deserves to have as much recognition in the AP community as Canon does. both have downright brilliant systems.
But Nikon seems to be puting a LOT more time/$/effort into their sensors....even though IMHO they just buy them from Sony LOL




Thanks Brent; here is the sum up (corrections/updates welcome)

LPF-2 Replacement Options (Baader)......Old/Current......New
Canon EOS APS-C.....................................FBCF-400D.........BCF1 [?BCF1 still listed as FBCF-400D]
Canon EOS Full Frame................................FBCF-5DII..........BCF2 [?BCF2 neither listed nor available]


Note:
•APS-C = [7D/40D/50D/60D/400D/450D/500D/550D/600D/1000D/1100D]
•Full Frame = [5D Mark II/5D Mark III/6D]

References:
"http://www.baader-planetarium.de/sektion/s45/s45.htm#afc1"
"http://www.alpineastro.com/filters/filters.htm#DSLR Filters"
"http://www.alpineastro.com/product_listing.htm#filters"
"http://www.adorama.com/AA2459213.html"
"http://www.adorama.com/AA2459214A.html"

Edited by mmalik (12/22/12 05:18 PM)


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nofxrx
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: mmalik]
      #5584202 - 12/22/12 02:34 PM

Looks good to me..

But I would add the 5D Mark III, and 6D to the Canon EOS Full Frame options for the FBCF-5DII..it works perfectly, trust me
And again, that is ONLY for Canon models. Nikons can easily use the exact same filters for either APS-C or Full Frame..fwiw


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mmalik
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: nofxrx]
      #5584479 - 12/22/12 06:22 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

Quite presumptuous MOD business is in my opinion ; not questions per se, just my dismay...

•So we are to "presume" FBCF-400D is 'now' actually BCF1?
•Not sure what to make of the "NEW" tag next to FBCF-5DII; new of the old, i.e., FBCF-5DII or new of the new, i.e., BCF2?
•What so called "Astronomical filter" Hutech uses remains a mystery, unless someone can solve?


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nofxrx
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: mmalik]
      #5585566 - 12/23/12 12:56 PM

Quote:

Quite presumptuous MOD business is in my opinion ; not questions per se, just my dismay...

•So we are to "presume" FBCF-400D is 'now' actually BCF1?
•Not sure what to make of "NEW" tag next to FBCF-5DII; new of the old, i.e., FBCF-5DII or new of the new, i.e., BCF2?
•What so called "Astronomical filter" Hutech uses remains a mystery, unless someone can solve?




Not sure what to make of your presumptuous comment, so will leave that alone


1) Yes. AFAIK. I think they just have not updated the site....or, like I theorized before, perhaps they wanted to keep the new filter designs/replacement somewhat less publicized since they now actually block 100% IR(with LPF-1). Maybe they just decided to update the product, and it wasnt something they wanted to 'share with the world' the who/what/where/when/why/and hows..

2) It has said "NEW" for a looong time now...atleast a year or more...
I dont think it has anything to do with them having an actual new filter/design out to replace the previous FBCF-5DII...


3) No clue what Hutech uses. My guess would be a UIBAR(whatever that is. lol), which they make/buy themselves..I dont see them using Baader/AstroDon, but that is just my guess..
they might though, since it may be cheaper to use the Baader options vs outsourcing their own special cut sized filters..(I know, I have tried myself..granted I think they are JUST a bit larger of a company than I am ..so they could afford the initial investments, but why? if the product is already made and well liked by the community, just use it...)
but again, just a guess..
(my "source" for this info: HERE )
EDIT- Looking at the specs of the UIBAR filter HERE I think it looks better than the Baader and AstroDon, particularly the in-band reflectivity, but that is just my opinion..

Edited by nofxrx (12/23/12 12:59 PM)


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mmalik
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: nofxrx]
      #5586103 - 12/23/12 06:30 PM

Quote:

No clue what Hutech uses. My guess would be a UIBAR(whatever that is. lol), which they make/buy themselves...I don’t see them using Baader/Astrodon, but that is just my guess..
they might though, since it may be cheaper to use the Baader options vs. outsourcing their own special cut sized filters..(I know, I have tried myself...granted I think they are JUST a bit larger of a company than I am: lol: ..so they could afford the initial investments, but why? If the product is already made and well-liked by the community, just use it...)
but again, just a guess..
(my "source" for this info: HERE )
EDIT- Looking at the specs of the UIBAR filter HERE I think it looks better than the Baader and Astrodon, particularly the in-band reflectivity, but that is just my opinion..




Brent, thanks and your feedback is greatly appreciated by all, if I may say.

Correct me if I may be off base here; when it comes to APS-C mods, most mods may be at par with Hutech’s; I feel Hutech may have an advantage when it comes to Full Frame mods for the reasons you cite/speculate. Also this gentleman in Japan (Seo San...) is offering mods that seem to be at par with Hutech’s, when it comes to the AP filter quality. Canon itself seems to have offered an AP filter in the form of 60Da that seems to be superior than mods [don't want to get into that debate...] and especially, one that’s not plagued by reflection and other anomalies. I can’t decipher all the details on Seo’s web page since it is in Japanese [would appreciate if some on can, Google Translate makes it worse], my point being if Seo San and Hutech can offer the filters of higher quality than Baader (or Astrodon), why not tap into that filter market, not instead of but in addition to Baader (or Astrodon) offerings? Regards


References:
http://www.sciencecenter.net/hutech/canon/index-mod1.htm
http://www.sciencecenter.net/hutech/idas/uibar-iii.htm
http://www.seo-e.co.jp/hobby/EOS300D/Price/Price.htm
Canon EOS 60Da Takes the ‘a’
S&T Review
Hiro AP Sample/Dialogue


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Hap Griffin
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: mmalik]
      #5586115 - 12/23/12 06:39 PM

I would hesitate to call Canon's 60Da "superior" to standard modified DSLR's since it does not pass hydrogen-alpha as well as Baader/Astrodon modded cameras do. Jerry Lodgriguss has done a review comparing the 60Da to modified cameras and came to the same conclusion.

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nofxrx
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: Hap Griffin]
      #5587555 - 12/24/12 05:31 PM

Agreed with Hap, and mmalik, we are NOT saying this because the 60Da "cuts into our 'market/profits'"!! The 60Da does NOT pass as much Ha as a modified camera does. period.
there are many other things to consider when choosing a camera, so am in no way saying it has no place, I am ONLY basing this on the FACT that it is NOT superior when it comes to spectral transmissions. particularly Ha.

ALSO...no one can speculate whether or not the 60Da is susceptible to the 'reflection anomaly issue' that is the topic in the other thread.
So again. "Superior" is subjective. imho
to each his own.
But I definitely would not automatically say that just because YOU have not seen the reflections in YOUR 60Da, that it could not be possible for this issue to arise in this/any model.

back OT
I wouldnt think that Hutech has anything better than what Hap, Gary, or I do..but that is just me.
And I dont know why you say "especially for Full Frame"??
Just because Hutech has a good IR/UV Block filter doesnt make them superior, imho.
IMHO, I see zero difference between the Baader and AstroDon or Astronomik or Edmunds, etc filters being used by any of us(including Hutech/San Seo/etc)..
when the mod is done properly, the results are spectacular, so to debate who has the absolute slightest of edges is completely moot imho..
maybe that is just me?

Cheers!


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bouffetout
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: mmalik]
      #5589027 - 12/25/12 11:00 PM Attachment (16 downloads)

Quote:

Quite presumptuous MOD business is in my opinion ; not questions per se, just my dismay...

•So we are to "presume" FBCF-400D is 'now' actually BCF1?
•Not sure what to make of the "NEW" tag next to FBCF-5DII; new of the old, i.e., FBCF-5DII or new of the new, i.e., BCF2?
•What so called "Astronomical filter" Hutech uses remains a mystery, unless someone can solve?



This is the one I bought recently.


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bouffetout
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: bouffetout]
      #5589030 - 12/25/12 11:04 PM Attachment (17 downloads)

And the backside of the pack !

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mmalik
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: bouffetout]
      #5589034 - 12/25/12 11:09 PM

Thanks Maxx.

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nofxrx
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: mmalik]
      #5589039 - 12/25/12 11:13 PM

Here is the new one, side by side with the old FBCF-400D/400BCF

Baader-filter_new-vs-old-2 by Oliver Digital Images, on Flickr


And here you can clearly see the difference in the packaging.

Baader-filter_new-vs-old by Oliver Digital Images, on Flickr

Edited by nofxrx (12/25/12 11:13 PM)


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optec
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: nofxrx]
      #5589259 - 12/26/12 07:32 AM

Hi all, this is a great read, sometime ago there was a question raised about the Baader filters and which way it fitted into the camera, i.e. there was supposed to be a pink film that was or as it happens; was not easily distingueished, and this dertermined how it fitted.

Is this still the case, does the way the filter is inserted matter?
Ray


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nofxrx
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: optec]
      #5591944 - 12/27/12 11:01 PM

The Baader filters no longer have an orientation. They work the same either way.

This is ONLY with the NEW filters, the 400D and newer models.
The OLD ones, for the 300D/350D/20D/30D/5D Mark I DID require a certain orientation (pink side towards lens mount/away from sensor)

Cheers!


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optec
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: nofxrx]
      #5592224 - 12/28/12 07:50 AM

Cheers Brent, no worries then when i mod my 450D

Ray


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mmalik
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: mmalik]
      #5592286 - 12/28/12 08:44 AM

Posting following from another... thread since relevant to the discussion:

Quote:

Quote:

So, for DSLRs at least it's the Ha that is the issue, not so much for anything else?



Not an issue per se, it is more about what needs be ‘blocked’ and what needs to be 'passed'. Consider these three wavelengths:

Ultraviolet (UV) 10 nanometers (nm) to 400 nm [wide bandwidth]
Infrared (IR) 0.74 micrometers (µm) to 300 µm [wide bandwidth]
Hydrogen-alpha (H-alpha) 656.28 nm [narrow bandwidth]

Idea is to “block” first two (UV/IR) [to prevent star bloat] and to “pass” H-alpha [to capture the brightest wavelength of visible light in stellar astronomy].

H-alpha is a specific red visible spectral line created by hydrogen with a wavelength of 656.28 nm, which occurs when a hydrogen electron falls from its third to second lowest energy level. Modified LPF-2 (UV/IR blocking filter) allows the astronomically important H-alpha to pass through the narrow bandwidth at the H-alpha frequency (656nm).





Typical stock camera configuration:
1. Stock LPF-1 (IR/UV Block) does NOT block H-alpha
2. Stock LPF-2 (WB & IR/UV Block) “blocks/restricts” H-alpha

Typical modified camera configuration:
1. Stock LPF-1 (IR/UV Block) does NOT block H-alpha
2. Modified LPF-2 (WB & IR/UV Block) “passes” H-alpha

Note: Updates/corrections welcome!




Edited by mmalik (12/30/12 04:33 AM)


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Aboy
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: mmalik]
      #5594675 - 12/29/12 04:12 PM

Wow... Thanks for the information.. that's help a lot.

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mmalik
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Re: Question about canon modification. new [Re: nofxrx]
      #5597126 - 12/30/12 11:22 PM

Posting following from another... thread since relevant to the discussion:

Quote:

Quote:

Few questions:
@Brent, could you confirm if D800 takes FBCF-5DII filter?
...




Yes
Both the D600 and D800 take the Baader FBCF-5DII....but, being hat the 5DII filter is NOT a strong IR block, in fact I am not convinced it blocks ANY IR, the system relies on the stock IR block from the stocks dual filter system...just like the Canons that take this same filter.
While I agree 100% with Hap/Gary that the BCF-1(400D) filter is NEEDED for proper IR removal with models that take the APS-C filter...but not agree with this on ANY full frame models I have EVER modified!(not including OLD models like the 5Dc where the Baader was the only options )..
including, but not limited to:
Canon: 1Dx, 1Ds Mark III, 5D Mark II/Mark III, 6D, also the APS-H 1D Mark III and Mark IV, etc
and
Nikon: D700, D600, D800, D3s/x, etc

I am hoping that Baader releases a new 5DII filter like they did with the new APS-C filter (BCF-1)..

BTW, Nikons are actually easier to use for daytime when modified vs Canon!
they seem to take the mods very well and even the stock/standard WB setting will work perfectly...
For example, with my Canon system(5DII/III, 1D IV, etc) I HAD to use a CWB for EVERY situation..
With my D800 I use AWB for nearly every situation except outdoor/bright sunlight/etc where I select a WB temp of ~3100-3300K...
YMMV..

Hope this helps..




So I think it would be OK to presume FBCF-5DII may NOT be ready for the prime time until BCF2 becomes available for full frame mods?


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