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saxmaneagle
sage


Reged: 08/21/07

Loc: Saint Francis, MN
Warp drive in the pipes ? new
      #5579465 - 12/19/12 07:24 PM

...always found this concept facinating... Eagleworks

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Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: saxmaneagle]
      #5579507 - 12/19/12 07:52 PM

I didn't read the link (56K dial up line ) but IMO, it's only a matter of time.

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Otto Piechowski
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/20/05

Loc: Lexington, KY
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: saxmaneagle]
      #5579643 - 12/19/12 09:13 PM

drl et alii who know physics; I am very interested to know your assessment of this technology; its feasibility.

Otto


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
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Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: Otto Piechowski]
      #5579750 - 12/19/12 10:13 PM

I liked one of the comments:

"Also, this travelling technique can finally explain how Santa does it."

Something to think about...


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shawnhar
Post Laureate
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Reged: 06/25/10

Loc: Knoxville, TN
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: llanitedave]
      #5579806 - 12/19/12 11:00 PM

I dunno...a loophole in a math equation doesn't translate to a loophole in real world physics, just means you need better math.
It's still just the Alcubierre warp drive idea.
Here's Dr. White's paper thingy:
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20110015936_2011016932.pdf


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Dave Mitsky
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Reged: 04/08/02

Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: shawnhar]
      #5579919 - 12/20/12 12:42 AM

I'll believe it when I get my atomic-powered helicar.

Dave Mitsky


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Jarad
Postmaster
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Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: Dave Mitsky]
      #5580191 - 12/20/12 08:05 AM

I like that they have "solved" the energy problem. They only need the equivalent of 500 kg of anti-matter to make a 30 foot sphere (still too small to fit enough food and air to sustain even a 1-man crew for 2 years). That amount of mass would convert to about 1.25*10^16 watt-hours, or about 12,500 tera-watt hours.

And they don't say if they need the same amount of energy again to stop at the other end...

Jarad


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Pess
(Title)
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Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: Jarad]
      #5580510 - 12/20/12 11:39 AM

Quote:

I like that they have "solved" the energy problem. They only need the equivalent of 500 kg of anti-matter to make a 30 foot sphere (still too small to fit enough food and air to sustain even a 1-man crew for 2 years). That amount of mass would convert to about 1.25*10^16 watt-hours, or about 12,500 tera-watt hours.

And they don't say if they need the same amount of energy again to stop at the other end...

Jarad





I think the words 'atop' and go are a misnomer in this case. Actually the space ahead and behind does the stopping & going while the ship sits there and experiences no inertial effects at all.

To stop they would just hit the off switch.

I think if the warp bubble had limited size the practicalities of resupply could be met by building a fleet of robotic supply ships. Have them travel out to set intervals where the manned ship could stop and resupply.

Since acceleration and decelleration are moot points these stops could be easily accomplished.

The first step though is proof of concept.

Pesse (I'd feel better though if one of the researchers was named Cochrane) Mist


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EJN
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/01/05

Loc: 53 miles west of Venus
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: saxmaneagle]
      #5580616 - 12/20/12 12:47 PM

There was a recent thread here about this, see:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5425678/page...


Bottom line: It is not feasible. It is based on a solution of General Relativity
which is unphysical. For starters, it requires matter with negative mass.

Note that the Eagleworks article refers to "exotic" matter, not anti-matter.

Then you already have to be going faster than light to make one.

See:
http://www.if.ufrj.br/~mbr/warp/etc/cqg15_2523.pdf

Quote:

The so-called warp drive is one recent attempt to realize this wish. At first sight following the arguments in [1] it seems a reasonable construction. This is worrying because it is known that ‘time paradoxes’ closely follow when the speed of light limit is overcome. But this alone cannot be used as an argument to dismiss the warp drive since many examples are known with closed-timelike curves, e.g. Godel universe [2] and rotating (infinite) cylinders, see e.g. [3]. For various reasons they mostly tend to suffer from various forms of unphysicality. Although, there is active debate as to whether any physical examples can be found, the warp drive might seem to be one possible case. But far from the warp drive being possible to construct we will show that it also suffers from being unphysical due to a paradox that makes its construction impossible: one needs to transcend the speed of light in order to construct the warp drive in the first place.





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saxmaneagle
sage


Reged: 08/21/07

Loc: Saint Francis, MN
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: EJN]
      #5580945 - 12/20/12 03:49 PM

EJN - thanks for the link ! I came across this concept many years ago, while following NASA'S BPPP. I am just glad there are discussions and research into such things. I agree that there may be a million reasons why such things are impossible. It is simply my 'hope', that the wonders science gives us will give a way, to visit one of the numerous planets we now know exist. Dan Goldin, while head of NASA many years back said.."If we found life on another planet in another solar system, we'd put all our energy into finding a warp drve to get there" (paraphrased..can't remember his exact words). Out of the box thinking, it can lead us to new technologies...new understandings in Science. Yes, many will scoff and ridicule, I'm for the underdog - the guy or gal who makes a discovery or new understanding of our Universe, that will solve this 'seemingly' impossible goal.

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Rick Woods
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: saxmaneagle]
      #5581323 - 12/20/12 07:39 PM

Quote:

Out of the box thinking, it can lead us to new technologies...new understandings in Science. Yes, many will scoff and ridicule, I'm for the underdog - the guy or gal who makes a discovery or new understanding of our Universe, that will solve this 'seemingly' impossible goal.




I certainly won't scoff. I agree completely.
Everything's impossible until it becomes possible.


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saxmaneagle
sage


Reged: 08/21/07

Loc: Saint Francis, MN
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5584163 - 12/22/12 02:05 PM

...just the fact that NASA is actually planning experiments with this Theory is quite enough for me. The man designing the experiment, Harry White, is no fool. He recently discovered adjustments to the original equations, that reduced the amount of energy needed from the size of Jupiter, to "— a new design that could significantly reduce the amount of exotic matter required. And in fact, White says that the warp drive could be powered by a mass that's even less than that of the Voyager 1 spacecraft." - Go Harry !!

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saxmaneagle
sage


Reged: 08/21/07

Loc: Saint Francis, MN
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: saxmaneagle]
      #5584227 - 12/22/12 02:53 PM

Dr. Harold "Sonny" White..

http://www.icarusinterstellar.org/team/harold-white/


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InterStellarGuy
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 06/25/08

Loc: Overland Park, KS
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? [Re: EJN]
      #5584367 - 12/22/12 05:03 PM

Quote:

There was a recent thread here about this, see:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5425678/page...


Bottom line: It is not feasible. It is based on a solution of General Relativity
which is unphysical. For starters, it requires matter with negative mass.

Note that the Eagleworks article refers to "exotic" matter, not anti-matter.

Then you already have to be going faster than light to make one.

See:
http://www.if.ufrj.br/~mbr/warp/etc/cqg15_2523.pdf

Quote:

The so-called warp drive is one recent attempt to realize this wish. At first sight following the arguments in [1] it seems a reasonable construction. This is worrying because it is known that ‘time paradoxes’ closely follow when the speed of light limit is overcome. But this alone cannot be used as an argument to dismiss the warp drive since many examples are known with closed-timelike curves, e.g. Godel universe [2] and rotating (infinite) cylinders, see e.g. [3]. For various reasons they mostly tend to suffer from various forms of unphysicality. Although, there is active debate as to whether any physical examples can be found, the warp drive might seem to be one possible case. But far from the warp drive being possible to construct we will show that it also suffers from being unphysical due to a paradox that makes its construction impossible: one needs to transcend the speed of light in order to construct the warp drive in the first place.








Exotic matter with imaginary mass has rest velocity of greater than C, ie: Tachyons. This is not the same as negative mass.

So the "you would already have to be going faster than C" thing wouldn't apply.

Also, re the time paradoxes, the ship itself wouldn't actually be exceeding the speed of light, it would only appear that way.

Given that space-time expanded at speeds greater than light in the beginning, it seems at least physically possible.


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saxmaneagle
sage


Reged: 08/21/07

Loc: Saint Francis, MN
Re: Warp drive in the pipes ? new [Re: InterStellarGuy]
      #5605734 - 01/04/13 11:03 PM

...another interesting tidbit....

Marshall


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