RLTYS
Post Laureate
Reged: 12/18/04
Loc: New York (Long Island)
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: tim53]
#5585184 - 12/23/12 08:03 AM
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Come on folks, lets keep this discussion on the scope and not go into political and personal issues.
Rich (RLTYS)
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Zoomster
Vendor - Clear Sky Adventures
Reged: 01/30/05
Loc: Tampa FL
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: RLTYS]
#5585272 - 12/23/12 09:31 AM
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Yeah, please keep this on track  I think it's just gorgeous and must be every steampunk lovers dream!! I once found a 1960's era bicycle in my neighbors garage (chrome fenders, sissy bar etc.) who I was helping clean out. She was in her eighties and remembered riding it back in the day and when I expressed interest in it she graciously gave it to me and I had every intention of restoring it, but as with some plans it never came about, but I was able to gift it to a friend who did have the time and resources to do the work and when he rode it by my house one day a month later fully restored it was just the coolest thing.
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tim53
Postmaster
Reged: 12/17/04
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: Robert Law]
#5592453 - 12/28/12 10:59 AM
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This thread is fascinating.... If *anyone* from the forum has the chance to get involved - you HAVE to take copious amounts of pics documenting every step.
I certiny will take photos and video and also 3D pictures when I get to visit this telescope and certinly if can restore it would document it
Hi Robert:
I realize it's the holiday season and all, but was curious if there might be any late news on this telescope?
best,
-Tim.
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CPHS
newbie
Reged: 12/28/12
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: tim53]
#5592813 - 12/28/12 02:52 PM
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From: Carluke Parish Historical Society
The telescope frame is iron and more than 120 years old. Its all that is remaining. The lens and mirrors were removed and may be in Edinburgh University now. Due to the weather in Braidwood I guess they were always removeable, leaving just the frame in the field. Yes, it qualifies as an ancient monument now and should be left in situ.
As far as we know there are no photographs in circulation of the working telescope though there are pics of Hunter-Selkirk in his top hat.
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CPHS
newbie
Reged: 12/28/12
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: oldscope]
#5592825 - 12/28/12 02:57 PM
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As far as I know it WAS always sitting out in the field from the day is was constructed (poss a tent in summer??) but the lens and mirrors were removeable.
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actionhac
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/09/08
Loc: WA
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: CPHS]
#5593081 - 12/28/12 06:25 PM
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One of these days I'm going to do that.
Keep it oiled and brush on a thick coat of paint once in a while.
I would get more use out of it.
See here's how its done:
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/garden-telescope
Robert
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tim53
Postmaster
Reged: 12/17/04
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: actionhac]
#5593099 - 12/28/12 06:35 PM
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Hey Robert. Maybe that Fecker 12"?
I'm going to go and cry now about that Calver...
-Tim.
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actionhac
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/09/08
Loc: WA
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: tim53]
#5593118 - 12/28/12 06:47 PM
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The Fecker would be perfect.
If I'd thought about it at the time I probably would have bought it.
Much to the horror of my wife though, her hobby is plants, roses in particular and she wouldn't like a big old telescope yard art, working or not.
Robert
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tim53
Postmaster
Reged: 12/17/04
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: actionhac]
#5593136 - 12/28/12 06:56 PM
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Well, keep that contact info for the Fecker. I just might... if I can figure out where to put it!
You had a thread about it, didn't you? I need to bookmark it.
If I were near the Calver, I'd offer to put a shed over it. Or, at the very least, paint it with some axle grease.
-Tim.
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Karl Fabian
member
Reged: 11/02/11
Loc: Illinois
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: tim53]
#5593181 - 12/28/12 07:21 PM Attachment (23 downloads)
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This is what I would envision as a more desirable fate for that old Calver rather than rusting away in an out of the way field.
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actionhac
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/09/08
Loc: WA
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: tim53]
#5593184 - 12/28/12 07:25 PM
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I never did a thread only posts in the ads.
I went back through my mail though and here it is:
https://picasaweb.google.com/MooseMtAttack/TelescopeRestorationProject
Norm is his name 509-987-3823
I asked my wife just now and she said "it ain't gunna happen" usually when she talks primitive like that she means it. The yard is very special to her.
Robert
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tim53
Postmaster
Reged: 12/17/04
Loc: Highland Park, CA
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: actionhac]
#5593235 - 12/28/12 07:54 PM
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Man, that mount would be sweet on a permanent pier with about an 18" cassegrain on it
Tim
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wfj
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/10/08
Loc: California, Santa Cruz County
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: Karl Fabian]
#5593296 - 12/28/12 08:28 PM
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This is what I would envision as a more desirable fate for that old Calver rather than rusting away in an out of the way field.
Sums up my thoughts exactly. Extremely doable with permission, intent, and will.
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Joe Cepleur
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/18/10
Loc: Dark North Woods
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: CPHS]
#5593431 - 12/28/12 10:09 PM
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it qualifies as an ancient monument now and should be left in situ.
Must an "ancient monument" be left to the weather, eventually to disintegrate, or would the law allow the scope to be refurbished and preserved in situ?
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SkipW
super member
Reged: 02/03/11
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: CPHS]
#5593463 - 12/28/12 10:33 PM
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From: Carluke Parish Historical Society
The telescope frame is iron and more than 120 years old. Its all that is remaining. The lens and mirrors were removed and may be in Edinburgh University now. Due to the weather in Braidwood I guess they were always removeable, leaving just the frame in the field. Yes, it qualifies as an ancient monument now and should be left in situ.
As far as we know there are no photographs in circulation of the working telescope though there are pics of Hunter-Selkirk in his top hat.
<soapbox>Just because someone is from an "Historical Society" doesn't mean they're automatically right about things like this, and I find this attitude utterly appalling. Just let it rust away in a field? Where's the value (historical or otherwise) in that?
Document it so its context can be understood and it can be returned if desired, but protect what's left of the instrument from the elements at the very least (which would mean changing the site at least some if it stays there). Is that OK? Why? If not, why not? Better (imo), return it to working condition using as many original parts as possible and replicas when necessary AND USE IT, even if it's not in the original site.
If some significant discovery or other event occurred at that specific site with that instrument, you could argue that the location with the telescope there is a shrine and the telescope should stay there. Otherwise, preserve the instrument and use it if at all possible; if at a different location, so be it. It sounds like it was a nice old telescope that was used for personal pleasure and then neglected for decades. That's an ancient monument? Really? It was built to be used, and resuming that is a far more fitting legacy.</soapbox>
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Joe Cepleur
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/18/10
Loc: Dark North Woods
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: SkipW]
#5593520 - 12/28/12 11:08 PM
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I agree with SkipW's sentiments in principle, yet I wonder whether this "ancient monuments" business is British legal jargon. Could it be that, after surviving 100 years, the scope has become as protected as another Stonehenge? Who reading this knows?
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iceblaze
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/15/11
Loc: 33.9° N, 118.4° W Lawndale, CA
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: SkipW]
#5593524 - 12/28/12 11:09 PM
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Well said SkipW. I wonder how much of this resistance is simply due to its size/mass. If it were Hunter-Selkirk's 60mm refractor laying out there, then surely someone would have at least put it in a museum by now 
-James
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Datapanic
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/17/09
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: Joe Cepleur]
#5593621 - 12/29/12 12:18 AM
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I agree with SkipW's sentiments in principle, yet I wonder whether this "ancient monuments" business is British legal jargon. Could it be that, after surviving 100 years, the scope has become as protected as another Stonehenge? Who reading this knows?
In one way, I agree with Skip as well. But, in the U.K., 100 years is not old, at all.
It would be nice to see this thing restored to its original grandeur, but the optics are probably missing and there's no shelter for it and, who's going to pay for all that? Restorations can get very expensive in no time at all and then there's the question of providing some kind of shelter for it. It also seems that whomever owns it has no interest in saving it nor selling it and relocating it. Most likely, this thing is going to stay where it's at and slowly deteriorate. At least it doesn't seem to have been vandalized...
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seafury
member
Reged: 01/18/12
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: Datapanic]
#5593772 - 12/29/12 03:48 AM
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as soon as the local crooks find out its there it will be pinched and cut up for scrap, aftr all they pinch the war memorials and cut them up for scrap so an old telescope would mean nothing to them, after all to a non astronomer it almost looks like another dumped bit of farm equipment
gordon
Edited by seafury (12/29/12 03:50 AM)
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terraclarke
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/29/12
Loc: Over the river and thru the wo...
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Re: ALERT! Old abandone scope found
[Re: seafury]
#5594396 - 12/29/12 01:17 PM
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The Parliament of the United Kingdom passed Ancient Monument Protection Acts in 1882, 1900, 1910, and 1979. While the Acts of 1882 and 1900 are more specifically aimed at protecting archaeological sites and particularly pre-historic archaeological sites, the Act of 1910 expands the content of coverage to historical artifacts, structures, etc. deemed to be significant.
This was again further expanded in the Act of 1979 to include "any other monument which in the opinion of the Secretary of State is of public interest by reason of the historic, architectural, traditional, artistic or archaeological interest attaching to it".
The Act goes on to further define "monument" as:
"any building, structure or work above or below the surface of the land, any cave or excavation; any site comprising the remains of any such building, structure or work or any cave or excavation; and any site comprising or comprising the remains of any vehicle, vessel or aircraft or other movable structure or part thereof." (Section 61 (7))
This would pretty well covers it I would think. Often a couple of general tests that are applied to historical preservation and cultural resource management in most European countries would be:
(1) Is the monument significant to or has it survived in the collective generational memory of the local or national culture?
and
(2) Has a place name been affixed to it?
These last two points were what I used in my surmise that it should be protected in place in my original post.
Since it is conjoined to the placename "Telescope Hill" and is no doubt in and of itself the reason for that name, since it is still in its original location (as confirmed by the reply from the local historical society), since it has stood there for more than 100 years (in the minds of several generations and through two world wars), and since it was constructed by a well known local naturalist of the Victorian period, I think it would be viewed as a protected piece.
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