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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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hytham
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5603553 - 01/03/13 07:16 PM

Thanks for posting, Sedat!

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bilgebay
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: mmalik]
      #5603980 - 01/04/13 01:10 AM

Quote:



•‘Reduced’ 153mm back-focus






This can be changed easily. It is possible to remove the CAA and regain the backfocus distance lost due to this. If you really have to rotate your FOV, you can do this by rotating the scope within the clamshell.


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D. Perry
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5604011 - 01/04/13 02:21 AM

Hi mmalik,

I wouldn't worry too much about the collimation and focuser issues mentioned here. There are hundreds in the market and only a handful have experienced issues. With an APS-C DSLR you'll get nowhere near the focuser's weight capacity and if there was a slight out-of-square issue, you probably wouldn't notice it on that 22mm imaging diagonal.

This leads me to the question... What camera do you intend to use? If it's any model with an APS-size sensor, I think you're way overdoing it with an FSQ. Most of the large corrected field will go wasted on an APS chip. I think you'd be perfectly happy with a TEC or similar APO with a field flattener and FT focuser. If, on the otherhand, you'll be using a full-size chip (44mm diagonal measurement), the FSQ is hard to beat. It's an amazing astrograph. Yes, the focus will shift with temperature changes but so will every metal tube refractor. And the focuser sag really only comes into play with those who are using filter wheels and heavy cameras like FLI's ProLine.

I've been very happy with my FSQ-106EDX-III. For a fast, 4-inch, highly-corrected imaging scope, there really isn't anything better on the market today. And it's quite versatile, being able to go shorter, longer, and used for visual. But as I mentioned earlier, it's a lot of scope price-wise, and possibly more than an APS DSLR user needs. Also, remember that besides the price of the scope, you'll need to spend a few hundred more for camera adapters, tube rings, and mounting plates.

Here's an image of mine in action (or, getting ready for action):

http://www.californiastars.net/img/equipment/observatory-ap900-fsq.jpg

Best,


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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: D. Perry]
      #5604091 - 01/04/13 05:02 AM

Thanks hytham/Rex/David/Donghun/Sedat/Daniel

Sedat, thanks for your pics, they look great.

Daniel, your mount/scope setup is simply immaculate; can't think of anything better. Setup I am contemplating will be quite nominal with a 60Da DSLR and auto-guiding, with possible upgrade to a full-frame DSLR. If you don't mind, I would like to embed the image of your setup instead of just a link. What kind of off-axis guider you are using?

While we are on the subject, I would like hear from folks about off-axis guider options for a typical FSQ106EDXIII+DSLR+ST-i/Lodestar kind of setup.

Everyone, I think most of us understand the sporadicity (I made the word) of focuser flexure; and I think most of us also understand the importance of Takahashi recognizing that it IS a problem regardless.

No one has mentioned yet if FSQ106EDXIII can be adapted to a Feather Touch focuser; not that one would want to replace the original focuser, I am just wondering if it is even possible and if there is a Feather Touch Focuser that meets the specs?

About...

TNR = Texas Nautical Repair = Takahashi America = http://www.takahashiamerica.com

Does above look correct? Is TNR just a distributor or actual Takahashi company in the US with the clout to address equipment re-design issues and NOT just the repairs/warranties? Is TNR a vendor on CN and/or have they ever chimed in on such issues?


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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5604119 - 01/04/13 05:40 AM

Quote:

@tomcody: Captain's wheel gives you the option of full 178mm in focus...




Quote:

Quote:



•‘Reduced’ 153mm back-focus






This can be changed easily. It is possible to remove the CAA and regain the back-focus distance lost due to this. If you really have to rotate your FOV, you can do this by rotating the scope within the clamshell.




Captain's Wheel ('Q') vs. Without Wheel ('X' III) ?

Would like to know which one is best option for following two DLSR setups:

1. DSLR+2"Adapter+LPS [+OAG+Reducer]
2. DSLR+2"TeleVue 2.0x Powermate [+OAG]

#2 adds significant back-focus and possibly weight; I am wondering if NO Wheel ('X' III) will be limiting for that kind of back-focus; has anyone tried #2 option with 'NO Wheel' model?

Pictures of both setups below…

1. DSLR+2"Adapter+LPS (This I know isn't a problem)


2. DSLR+2"TeleVue 2.0x Powermate
Components:


Assembled: (This one adds significant back-focus; not sure if NO Wheel ('X' III) will allow such tolerance?)


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bilgebay
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: mmalik]
      #5604127 - 01/04/13 05:48 AM

I have already adapted FTF2015BCR to be used in tandem with the original focuser. I have also adapted a Baader 3.25 Click lock visual back.

However, FTF2015 BCR will not be good for the most, especially for those who are using larger sensors. This weekend I will look into adapting a 3" Feathertouch focuser.


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bilgebay
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: mmalik]
      #5604139 - 01/04/13 06:22 AM

Go for the one without the Captain's Wheel. This rotator needs very special treatment to remain square. If you rotate it under load there is no guarantee that you will fasten it square to the focal plane.

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tomcody
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: mmalik]
      #5604598 - 01/04/13 11:28 AM

Quote:


While we are on the subject, I would like hear from folks about off-axis guider options for a typical FSQ106EDXIII+DSLR+ST-i/Lodestar kind of setup



For an good OAG check out the monster Mog on the Astrodon site, there is a seperate article there on using it with a FSQ106.
But- from my experience, you don't need or want off axis guiding at 530mm focal length, its over kill, just get a loadstar or SBIG guider camera and the SBIG guider lens kit and it will produce great results at that focal length. I used both systems and much prefer the guider/lens kit for ease of use and ease of finding a guide star.
Quote:


Everyone, I think most of us understand the sporadicity (I made the word) of focuser flexure; and I think most of us also understand the importance of Takahashi recognizing that it IS a problem regardless.



I think the fact that Takahashi has come out with three versions of the FSQ106ED says that they know about the issue.

Quote:


Does above look correct? Is TNR just a distributor or actual Takahashi company in the US with the clout to address equipment re-design issues and NOT just the repairs/warranties? Is TNR a vendor on CN and/or have they ever chimed in on such issues?



Without contacting Japan directly, yes, they are the go to people for Tak in the US ( and probably had much to do with improving the focusers to this point)
As for contacting them in a forum, they are active on the Yahoo forum "Uncensored TakGroup", "Art1942" is the manager for Takahashi at TNR.

Edited by tomcody (01/04/13 01:45 PM)


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John Boudreau
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Reged: 04/06/08

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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: tomcody]
      #5604830 - 01/04/13 01:40 PM

Quote:


Quote:


Does above look correct? Is TNR just a distributor or actual Takahashi company in the US with the clout to address equipment re-design issues and NOT just the repairs/warranties? Is TNR a vendor on CN and/or have they ever chimed in on such issues?



Without contacting Japan directly, yes, they are the go to people for Tak in the US ( and probably had much to do with improving the focusers to this point)
As for contacting them in a forum, they are active on the Yahoo forum "Uncensored TakGroup", "Art1949" is the manager for Takahashi at TNR.





Art is also a member here on CN (CN profile is "art1942us") and whle he's more active on the Tak Yahoo group, he does chime in here from time-to-time.


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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5605797 - 01/04/13 11:54 PM

Quote:

I have already adapted FTF2015BCR to be used in tandem with the original focuser. I have also adapted a Baader 3.25 Click lock visual back.

However, FTF2015 BCR will not be good for the most, especially for those who are using larger sensors. This weekend I will look into adapting a 3" Feather Touch focuser.




Thanks Sedat; we'll look forward to your 3" focuser test.

Question: I if search for FTF2015BCR, I get all these..., which one exactly are you referring to? Thx


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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: tomcody]
      #5606042 - 01/05/13 05:34 AM

Thanks Rex/John; let’s see if we hear from Tak.

So has anyone tested DSLR+2" Tele Vue 2.0x Powermate... on NON-‘Captain’s Wheel’, i.e., FSQ106EDXIII; Powermate adds significant back-focus so would like to know if ‘Reduced’ 153mm back-focus will suffice?


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tomcody
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: mmalik]
      #5606296 - 01/05/13 10:43 AM

Quote:

Thanks Rex/John; let’s see if we hear from Tak.



I would not expect any answer other than " call Art or Fred" .
By the way Art is very friendly and knowledgeable if you call him at TNR.
Quote:


So has anyone tested DSLR+2" Tele Vue 2.0x Powermate... on NON-‘Captain’s Wheel’, i.e., FSQ106EDXIII; Powermate adds significant back-focus so would like to know if ‘Reduced’ 153mm back-focus will suffice?



I believe that a Powermate does not change the optical in-focus on a system, it just adds physical length, ( I may be mistaken on this one, but that is the way my extender Q works and from what I read, that is the way Televue describes the Powermate's operation)

I think you should do some research as to what type of system you want to set up before you decide which model of FSQ you want. for example, remember that the 2" nose piece reduces available in-focus by 40 mm when you calculate your in- focus needs.
A rotator (CAA) is most used to frame a guider chip image, but a CAA and OAG both eat up at least 75mm (with adapters) so most systems with a CAA and OAG use an all threaded system to eliminate the 40mm used by a nose piece.
A captains wheel model is great for use with a separate guider/ lens mounted either on the rings or on the finder bracket and used with a DSLR and/or a set of bino viewers as you can rotate the binos with the captains wheel and don't usually need to rotate the DSLR . ( at least I prefer all my images with the same orientation for processing purposes).
Just some things to think about.
Rex


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bilgebay
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: mmalik]
      #5606319 - 01/05/13 10:59 AM

I was referring to this one. For heavy loads the rack and pinion version should be preferred but a DSLR and a powermate is not heavy for the crayford one at all.

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Denimsky
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5606491 - 01/05/13 12:19 PM

Quote:

Go for the one without the Captain's Wheel. This rotator needs very special treatment to remain square. If you rotate it under load there is no guarantee that you will fasten it square to the focal plane.




Hi Sedat,
Do you mean the captain wheel or CAA by 'rotator'?

Thank you.


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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging [Re: tomcody]
      #5607004 - 01/05/13 05:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:


So has anyone tested DSLR+2" TeleVue 2.0x Powermate... on NON-‘Captain’s Wheel’, i.e., FSQ106EDXIII; Powermate adds significant back-focus so would like to know if ‘Reduced’ 153mm back-focus will suffice?




I believe that a Powermate does not change the optical in-focus on a system, it just adds physical length, (I may be mistaken on this one, but that is the way my extender Q works and from what I read, that is the way TeleVue describes the Powermate's operation)

I think you should do some research as to what type of system you want to set up before you decide which model of FSQ you want. for example, remember that the 2" nose piece reduces available in-focus by 40 mm when you calculate your in- focus needs.




Actually, Powermate... ADDS significant back-focus besides physical length. Would like to hear from folks who have tested DSLR imaging through 2.0x Powermate on ‘X’ (NON-‘Captain’s Wheel’) model?


Note: The two DSLR setups I have listed above are what I have been using thus far and intend to use if I were to get an FSQ-106.
1. DSLR+2"Adapter+LPS...
2. DSLR+2"TeleVue 2.0x Powermate...


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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging [Re: bilgebay]
      #5607033 - 01/05/13 05:52 PM

Quote:

I was referring to this one. For heavy loads the rack and pinion version should be preferred but a DSLR and a Powermate is not heavy for the Crayford one at all.




Thanks Sedat; would you be able to post some up-close pics of FTF2015BCR adapted to your FSQ-106, preferably FSQ-106EDXIII. One thing I am not clear about is if whole FTF2015BCR... can be adapted or just the bottom knobs section?


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bilgebay
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging [Re: mmalik]
      #5608688 - 01/06/13 03:54 PM

Today, I took some photos for you:

First, the picture of the female-female adaptor I made



I am threading this onto the TAR0130



I can then thread on the Baader clicklock visual back to FSQ106. I have originally purchased this for my C11 Edge, to be fitted to the 3.25" at the back of this scope. But I made an adaptor flange and I am able to use it with the FSQ as well.







Now I am fitting the FTF2015 BCR











In this configuration, after the course adjustment, you should lock down the stock focuser (to eliminate all the play of the Tak focuser) and use the Feather Touch for fine focusing. However, the smaller inner diameter may introduce some vignetting depending on your sensor size. I have tried this configuration with QSI683 and didn't notice an objectionable vignetting. Below is an uncalibrated, stretched light frame for you to see what I mean:



Hires photo

Most probably, full frame sensors will have some light fall off in the corners but for the time being I don't have access to such a sensor.




Edited by bilgebay (01/06/13 04:41 PM)


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bilgebay
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging [Re: bilgebay]
      #5608780 - 01/06/13 04:38 PM

This FTF2015 crayford focuser is capable of lifting 8-10 pounds, which is way above my needs for the time being.

For heavier equipment, either the FTF2015BCR-RP rack and pinion version can be used, again leaving the stock focuser in place, or else one of the 3" rack and pinion focusers can be adapted to the FSQ106's body easily.

Here are some photos to give you an idea as to how this 3" focuser compares to the 2" one and the stock focuser



The 3" inner diameter looks more than sufficient and larger than the diameter of the corrector lens.



Edited by bilgebay (01/07/13 02:25 PM)


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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging [Re: bilgebay]
      #5608992 - 01/06/13 06:24 PM

This is great info Sedat and I really appreciate; I am sure it comes handy to lot of folks. More follow-up questions:

•I presume TAR0130 is a spacer that doesn't come with FSQ106, correct?

•The female-female adapter you improvised may not come handy for everyone, so does that mean those folks are out of luck on such FTF2015BCR adaptation? Is there an actual female-female adapter that could be used instead of creating one?

•I can see 2” FTF2015BCR adaptation might be prohibitive for most, notwithstanding any vignetting it may cause on full frame sensors.

•What is the part number for 3" rack and pinion focusers you show?

•I see 3" FT focuser doesn't require TAR0130 spacer, correct? Does it adapt without needed any additional pieces? If yes, this might be the simplest adaptation (i.e., no improvising) if I understand correctly? Does 3” focuser directly thread-on/attach to FSQ-106EDXIII?

•On the flip side, I can already see the advantage of using add-on focusers on ‘Reduced’ 153mm back-focus on FSQ-106EDXIII where they will add quite a bit of back-focus for situations like the one I cite above (adding 2" TeleVue 2.0x Powermate, etc.)

•Last but not least, would heavy 3" FT focuser along with attached equipment cause flexure inherent in the FSQ-106EDXIII design (since stock focuser mechanism stays in place in all of these add-on scenarios)?

Hope you don’t mind my asking all these questions, you have been a great help. Regards


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bilgebay
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging [Re: mmalik]
      #5610165 - 01/07/13 12:43 PM

Hi again,

Quote:

I presume TAR0130 is a spacer that doesn't come with FSQ106, correct?




This part is not included in the price but can be ordered from TNR or through their dealers. It is an original Tak accessory.

Quote:

The female-female adapter you improvised may not come handy for everyone, so does that mean those folks are out of luck on such FTF2015BCR adaptation? Is there an actual female-female adapter that could be used instead of creating one?




I don't know if TNR has a female-female adaptor. It was too easy to build so I did it. But this is not all you gonna need; you also need an adaptor to fit the dovetail of the FTF2015 focuser which on the outside should have the same thread as TAR0130.

I will share the drawings with Wayne from Starlight Instruments so that they can build this adaptor as an accessory for their focusers.

Quote:

I can see 2” FTF2015BCR adaptation might be prohibitive for most, notwithstanding any vignetting it may cause on full frame sensors.




I am not sure I understand you here correctly. Why would it be prohibitive for most ?

Quote:

What is the part number for 3" rack and pinion focusers you show?




FTF3025B-A is the one I have at hand (came with my TMB92SS) but FTF3015 or FTF3035 can be chosen as well depending on the individual's needs.

Quote:

I see 3" FT focuser doesn't require TAR0130 spacer, correct? Does it adapt without needed any additional pieces? If yes, this might be the simplest adaptation (i.e., no improvising) if I understand correctly? Does 3” focuser directly thread-on/attach to FSQ-106EDXIII?




No, on the contrary, this is the most complicated adaptation. You will need to remove the tak focuser assy and build an adaptor to fit the FT focuser to the rear of the FSQ's tube. Unless I have a really heavy imaging system, I am not planning to go into that. But for those who need something better than Tak focuser, at least there is a solution.

Quote:

On the flip side, I can already see the advantage of using add-on focusers on ‘Reduced’ 153mm back-focus on FSQ-106EDXIII where they will add quite a bit of back-focus for situations like the one I cite above (adding 2" TeleVue 2.0x Powermate, etc.)




This, completely depends on the imaging system you have. For me this configuration is great and it appears it will be fine for you too. But if you consider that the second focuser is eating up the very precious back focus real estate, it can be a great problem for some of the users.

Quote:

Last but not least, would heavy 3" FT focuser along with attached equipment cause flexure inherent in the FSQ-106EDXIII design (since stock focuser mechanism stays in place in all of these add-on scenarios)?




As mentioned above, when the 3" focuser is considered, the stock focuser should be removed from the back of the tube. Otherwise you won't have enough back focus for your imaging system to reach focus( you will need more in_focus but it won't be available)

Hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily.

Clear skies

Sedat


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