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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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John Huntley
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Reged: 07/16/06

Loc: South West England
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #5705608 - 02/28/13 03:45 PM

Alvin,

I've just been playing with the Baader Q-Turret 2.25x barlow and some BCO's and BGO's. With the 18mm BCO the barlow requires around 10mm of inwards focuser movement to regain sharp focus. With the 18mm BGO this is reduced to just ~2mm.

I repeated this with the 6mm BCO and BGO's and got 6mm of inwards required for the 6mm BCO and virtually no change of focus position for the 6mm BGO.

The scope was a Vixen ED102SS F/6.5 refractor and the subject was Sirius.

Edited by John Huntley (02/28/13 03:46 PM)


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Alvin Huey
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Reged: 10/18/05

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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: John Huntley]
      #5705649 - 02/28/13 04:09 PM

Thanks Don and John!

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KaStern
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Reged: 04/18/06

Loc: InTheDark
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5705682 - 02/28/13 04:27 PM

Hi Folks,

last Weekend I could do a short indoor check of the Baader Classic Ortho.
I plugged it in the focusser of a scope, aimed the scope towards a horizontal bar
and shifted it up and down.
The bar appeared to be bended at the outer part of the field of view.
I checked the same bar with a Kasai Ortho (it looks like the volcano
top but does not state multicoatings).
The bar appeared significantly less bended at the edge of field,
wich was admittedly narrower.
To me the Baader classic Ortho is not an orthoscopic eyepiece.

The field stop of the exepiece looked not cut out sharp, but somewhat rough and fuzzy.
I was not at all impressed by this new eyepiece line.

Cheers, Karsten


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Lance1234
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Reged: 11/01/12

Loc: SoCal
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5705803 - 02/28/13 05:30 PM

Quote:


Since several people now own these eypecies, has anybody compared them with the top notch, such as Zeiss abbe?

best regards

Thomas




Thomas,
While not ZAOs, I was able to compare one sample of the 10mm & 16mm BCO against my 10mm & 16mm Carl Zeiss Jena (CZJ). The conditions were definitely not the best, lots of light pollution (orange-red zone) and unstable air. Popped into my C9.25, the BCOs were very sharp, the transmission was excellent, and they were a pleasure to use. On Jupiter, with the seeing conditions as they were, they were very close with maybe just a hint of additional detail visible through the CZJ at both magnifications. Where I did notice a more pronounced difference was on M3 & M13 which were clearly better resolved in the CZJs at both magnifications.

So how would I rate them? Best value: BCO, just a great eyepiece for the money. Best optics: CZJ (but you pay for it both in $$$ and/or waiting for one to pop up on the used market).

Edited by Lance1234 (02/28/13 05:37 PM)


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tomharri
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Reged: 09/19/08

Loc: USA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Lance1234]
      #5705865 - 02/28/13 05:56 PM

Had a set ZAO 2's, found so many eyepieces just as good, like Pentax XW's, out went the Zeisses.

The latest Baaders, Kasai, in fact any ordinary available ortho/plossl is less sharp/contrasty than the Pentax or the new Delos.


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azure1961p
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Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5705933 - 02/28/13 06:35 PM

Quote:

When viewing the Moon through my 90mm Mak, a TV Plossl 11m gave me better contrast than the BCO 10, FO 10.5 or BGO 9mm, especially on the maria. Not appreciably finer detail, but more contrast.

Mike




Hi Mike,
The 1 extra mm in the TV could affect perceived contrasts though - particularly in less than good seeing.

One person mentions rough or fuzzy fieldstop but mines sharp. Got my 18 and 10mm today (thanks Mr. P.) . Haven't used em but I'm feeling they'll be at least ok. I don't have demanding fast scopes though. My Abbes by UO are excellent as a matter of fact.

Pete


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John Huntley
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 07/16/06

Loc: South West England
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: tomharri]
      #5705974 - 02/28/13 06:54 PM

Quote:

Had a set ZAO 2's, found so many eyepieces just as good, like Pentax XW's, out went the Zeisses.

The latest Baaders, Kasai, in fact any ordinary available ortho/plossl is less sharp/contrasty than the Pentax or the new Delos.




For me, the BGO 5mm and BCO 6mm seem to equal my XW 5mm on fine lunar detail and picking Sirius B out from the glow of Sirus A. The XW's 70 degree field, massive eye lens and 20mm of eye relief are lovely to have of course and I'd not be without them


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Hesiod
sage


Reged: 01/13/13

Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: KaStern]
      #5706013 - 02/28/13 07:11 PM

Quote:

The field stop of the exepiece looked not cut out sharp, but somewhat rough and fuzzy



While I agree with you about distorsion and a somewhat "soft" 10-15% edge (and, theoretically, about the definition of "orthoscopy"), I found a quite sharp FS (at least as sharp as the one in TV Plossl and BGO) in my samples (10 and 18 mm). Maybe is the "poor chinese QC" thing ...


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Sarkikos
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Reged: 12/18/07

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Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5706056 - 02/28/13 07:38 PM

Pete,

Quote:

The 1 extra mm in the TV could affect perceived contrasts though - particularly in less than good seeing.




I think a better guide to perceived contrast is the difference in exit pupil, and not so much a millimeter or two in focal length of the eyepiece, depending on the telescope, of course.

In my 90mm f/13.3 Mak, the TV Plossl 11 gave a 0.83mm exit pupil, the FO 10.5 gave a 0.79mm exit pupil, the BCO 10 gave a 0.75mm exit pupil, and the BGO 9 gave a 0.68mm exit pupil.

Undoubtedly this is higher accuracy than is warranted by the probable error and fudging involved in the advertised focal lengths of these eyepieces. So I think it'd be fairer to round to the nearest tenth and say that the TV Plossl 11, FO 10.5 and BCO 10 all yield 0.8mm exit pupil, while the BGO 9 gives 0.7mm exit pupil.

Looked at this way, my comparo - especially among these first three eyepieces - should have more weight when I say that the TV Plossl gave me better perceived contrast for lunar.

I know a lot of observers will criticize comparos among eyepieces which do not have the exact same focal length. How many times have we read this? But to me it does make more sense to consider the exit pupil produced by the combination of eyepieces and telescope, and not so much a strict protocol based on "exact" focal lengths of eyepieces.

Mike


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johnnyha
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Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5706420 - 02/28/13 11:43 PM

I am SO tempted to pick up a pair of 18mm BCOs... and yet something tells me there is a very good reason why I had to spend $1 extra on my 18.5mm KK Circle T Volcano Tops...

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azure1961p
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Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5706478 - 03/01/13 12:37 AM

The TV plossls seem to consistently rate as THE best planetary eyepieces . I'm not adding Carl Z. Or Brandon's into the mix but between Radians, Pans, BGOs, UO ABBES ETC. they come out on top and with the preferred "coffee tone" ever mentioned.

So long as these new Orthos at least meet UO Abbé levels of contrast and sharpness ill enjoy them . Thanks for your wisdom Mike


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ThomasM
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Reged: 04/19/09

Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #5761239 - 03/27/13 08:28 PM

Quote:

I have the 6 and 10mm BCO and will try and do some real world comparisons with my 6 and 10mm Delos and 6 and 10mm ZAO-II and report back here.







Hi Alvin,

did you found time to do a comparison with the BCOs?

best regards

Thomas


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Alvin Huey
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Reged: 10/18/05

Loc: NorCal
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: ThomasM]
      #5763118 - 03/28/13 08:22 PM

Not yet as I haven't been out to a dark site since.

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riverlaw
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Reged: 06/09/10

Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #6236908 - 12/06/13 09:27 AM

Any more user reports? Thanks, Scott

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CeleNoptic
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Reged: 12/20/07

Loc: Cloudy East Coast
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: riverlaw]
      #6240133 - 12/08/13 01:14 AM


Any updates?
I wanted to get the 6mm BCO to be used in both my scopes for planetary but not sure how good is it.


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Hesiod
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Reged: 01/13/13

Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: CeleNoptic]
      #6240264 - 12/08/13 05:00 AM

The 6mm seems to me quite good compared to others 6mm "cheap" EPs (Celestron OMNI, various "Chinese Plossls", TAL 6.3mm); I think it is rather comfortable (in fact it is the only one of the whole bunch where I could see the full aFOV without removing something). However the Tal exhibits a little less scattering.
In any case if you could find a t-japan instead my advice is to grab it


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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: CeleNoptic]
      #6240295 - 12/08/13 05:46 AM

Quote:


Any updates?
I wanted to get the 6mm BCO to be used in both my scopes for planetary but not sure how good is it.




The 6mm BCO is as good as the old Baader BGO 6mm. (Which would make them at par with the UO-HD and the new incarnations of same.)


BCO 6mm & BGO 6mm

The BCO 6mm has an extra 25% bigger field than the BGO (40-deg. vs 50-deg. on the BCO) useful for making it easier to acquire a planet, but compromises with some softness at the edges. See more at blog post review, click here.

The BCO 10mm is ranked in-between the ZAO II and the Delos on axis, according to report linked to in the blog.

Best,


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CeleNoptic
sage


Reged: 12/20/07

Loc: Cloudy East Coast
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Hesiod]
      #6240711 - 12/08/13 12:26 PM

Quote:

The 6mm seems to me quite good compared to others 6mm "cheap" EPs (Celestron OMNI, various "Chinese Plossls", TAL 6.3mm); I think it is rather comfortable (in fact it is the only one of the whole bunch where I could see the full aFOV without removing something). However the Tal exhibits a little less scattering.
In any case if you could find a t-japan instead my advice is to grab it



Hi Hesiod,
I appreciate your info. By saying "t-japan" you probably mean older Towa volcano top orthos from Vixen or Celestron, right? As opposed to some other reviews you prefer them over the new BCOs. Why? Do they show more details on the Moon and planets, or show them easier or clearer? Better scatter control? What about splitting double stars like Sirius or Rigel? As I've said I want to use the 6mm BCO in my f/6 Dob, so it would be interesting to know for what f-ratio you got better results for t-japans? It would be good if you provide more details. Thanks.


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Hesiod
sage


Reged: 01/13/13

Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: CeleNoptic]
      #6240963 - 12/08/13 02:44 PM

Er,well I mean those Abbe labeled T-Japan (I bought mine as "Tani" and nothing else).
I use them mainly with a 100mm f/10 refractor.
I find more comfortable the "volcanic" top of the Tani than the "atholl-like" top of the BCO (but it is highly subjective, and the BCO is a comfortable EP anyway).
I own 3 BCO (6-10-18) and my feeling is that they behave in a rather different way.
I found the 18mm a superb deep sky EP (almost on par with my XW20), while rather so-so on Moon and Sun because it shows too much distortion and I do not like a "pear-shaped" Sun at all.
The 10 mm is in my opinion the most balanced of the bunch (a bit of astigmatism, a bit of distorsion at the edge but clear sharp in the middle).
The 6mm is the "bad guy"..better than a cheap Plossl, but it shows to my eye a pinch of scattering more than the Tani In my 100mm refractor it is easier to split Izar; some low contrast features on Jupiter (ex details whitin the SEB) are more evident; Rigel A is more "intrusive"(the large double is easily solved even in the BCO; however a lower magnification provides a better view); pushing the refractor near its resolving limit is easier using the Tani (the disks of Jabbah A and B where more clearly splitted; 52 Or, while not solved due to bad seeing, appeared more a "peanut" than a line).
Overall the BCO are good -and almost outstanding in reason of their price- and their enlarged aFOV makes them good for all uses, while I judge the Tani a more double stars /planets-oriented choice (my compact travel kit consists of a 66/400, the 3 BCOs and a 2x Barlow).

Edited by Hesiod (12/08/13 02:45 PM)


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John Huntley
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 07/16/06

Loc: South West England
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Hesiod]
      #6241449 - 12/08/13 07:49 PM

For splitting Sirius with my 12" dob I found the BGO 6mm the most effective followed by the BCO 6mm and the Pentax XW 5mm(tied)and then the Ethos 6mm. The Circle-T 6mm "volcano top" I also had when I was undertaking this comparison struggled to show more than occasional glimpses of the Pup star.

I think the Baader Classic Orthos are excellent value for money but I wish there were a few more in the range.


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