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Equipment Discussions >> Reflectors

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denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
      #5603419 - 01/03/13 05:47 PM

I have 10" tuned dob using for binoviewing, so is worth to upgrade it with 12"" mirror?

Will be difference noticable, and how much?

I am not interest for 14" or larger mirrors because of weight, size....


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GeneT
Ely Kid
*****

Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5603456 - 01/03/13 06:09 PM

Are you saying that your 10 inch mirror housing will hold a 12?

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denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: GeneT]
      #5603477 - 01/03/13 06:23 PM

Quote:

Are you saying that your 10 inch mirror housing will hold a 12?




No, upgrade 10" dob with 12" dob!


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Bob S.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5603486 - 01/03/13 06:31 PM

Things will be brighter in your binoviewers. However, you will likely not see too much more.

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lbsgville
sage


Reged: 06/15/10

Loc: Florida
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: GeneT]
      #5603488 - 01/03/13 06:32 PM

You will see some difference at the eyepiece, it will not be a lot, but worth it if 12" is as big as you want to go. If you do not want to go to a 14" mirror than the 12" is your next step. If you are talking about getting a scope and not just swapping out the mirror I would think about keeping the tuned up 10" for bino viewing and have the 12" for single eyepiece deeper sky stuff. I have a 10" solid tube now and will be getting a 14" some day. I will keep the 10" as a grab and go, it's pretty well tuned up as well and is a keeper for life.

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TexasRed
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/17/11

Loc: East Texas
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: lbsgville]
      #5603602 - 01/03/13 07:49 PM

If you're making side-by-side comparisons, you'll find a 12" mirror noticably better, but there won't be any "wow" factor. If you're used to the views through a 10" and spend money to upgrade to a 12", you may have to examine several targets before you notice any improvement. You'll probably be asking yourself why you spent good money for an improvement this small when you could have just put a more comfortable seat on your observing chair and added more to your observing experience.

I made the step up from 10" to 12", but I was mainly moving from an EQ mount to a Dobsonian with GoTo and auto-tracking. The "wow" factor and bang-for-the-buck was in the improvement in ease of use and portability, not the view.

On the other hand, I made the step up to a 12" to hit my maximum for size, weight and ease of use. I knew I'd never be tempted to go larger. It's hard to judge the value of that satisfaction.


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kfiscus
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/09/12

Loc: Albert Lea, MN, USA
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: TexasRed]
      #5604025 - 01/04/13 02:55 AM

I went from a 10" to a 12" and was very impressed. The 10" is now relegated to outreach only. M-51 now shows much better definition, M-33 has arms and H-II regions, dust lane of M-31 is striking. Stephan's Quintet has become almost easy.

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Mike B
Starstruck
*****

Reged: 04/06/05

Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: kfiscus]
      #5604715 - 01/04/13 12:44 PM

Of all the 2-inch aperture jumps folks consider doing, the 10-to-12 is still a pretty decent one; 6-to-8 and 8-to-10 still provide larger *changes* in light-grasp... yet 12-to-14 or 14-to-16 would provide less.

More significantly, however, is as was posted above- if your personal weight/size/transport/cost/etc. "limit" is a 12-inch scope, then by ALL means, *DO* maximize! BUT- if at some point in the near future you suspect your head might be turned toward a 14-15 inch scope, then maybe it's better to wait & see what your true limit really is before taking the plunge. Better to make such a jump in one wise step, rather than two poorly considered ones.

Still, nothin' wrong with BVing a 10" scope! I did that for several years, and had a blast- saw lots of amazing stuff!


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johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: Mike B]
      #5604750 - 01/04/13 01:03 PM

If the mirror in your GSO is stock, I would suggest in upgrading to a 12.5" to go ahead and get a premium mirror like Zambuto, to ensure you get the absolute most out of the 12". Then I think you might be looking at a significant upgrade.

Edited by johnnyha (01/04/13 01:04 PM)


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Galicapernistein
super member


Reged: 09/24/07

Loc: Detroit Michigan
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5604789 - 01/04/13 01:21 PM

It depends on what you like to look at too. I don't think the brighter showpiece objects will look too much better in a 12 than a 10" scope, or the planets for that matter. But if you like to pick off those little ovals in the star atlases, or want to start tracking down some galaxy clusters other than what's in Virgo, I think it would be worth upgrading to a 12" dob.

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dpwoos
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/18/06

Loc: United States
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: Galicapernistein]
      #5604842 - 01/04/13 01:46 PM

I would sooner observe with a 10" with great optics than a 12" with good optics. Be careful what you are comparing - 10" vs. 12" alone means nothing.

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hottr6
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/28/09

Loc: 7,500', Magdalena Mtns, NM
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: Mike B]
      #5605579 - 01/04/13 09:06 PM

I've never looked through a 12", but I have done side-by-side comparisons with a 5" and 6", both f/5 Newts, and the difference was astounding! The views were very different. E.g., the 5" could not resolve M13 stars except scattered around the edge, whereas the 6" showed lanes. The 6" clearly shows more belts on Jupiter and Saturn. The 6" hints at details that I see clearly in my 10" but any such hints are missing in the 5".

I don't know if this 6":5" experience would transfer to the 12":10" experience, but I note that the ratio of the surface areas is the same in both cases.


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GeneT
Ely Kid
*****

Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: dpwoos]
      #5605587 - 01/04/13 09:09 PM

Quote:

I would sooner observe with a 10" with great optics than a 12" with good optics. Be careful what you are comparing - 10" vs. 12" alone means nothing.




Good point. If you upgrade, get the best optics you can afford. This is an area to do research.


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yonkrz
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 11/16/06

Loc: SW Minnesota
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: GeneT]
      #5605600 - 01/04/13 09:26 PM

Ive had three tens and three twelves(all GSOs),not a huge differance,but there was a differance.if i didnt love the compactness of my c-8 ,i would have a 12" again,and i am seriously considering one at this time,get the biggest you can get for your present time.they are just so cheap for what you get.

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johnnyha
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: yonkrz]
      #5605689 - 01/04/13 10:35 PM

Great choice. It's amazing how many seasoned observers have settled on a 12" class dob for their main scope, due to its portability and ability to cool down quickly. Larger dobs can end up chasing thermals all night long. 12" is great. If you can find a thin premium mirror then all the better.

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JayinUTModerator
I'm not Sleepy
*****

Reged: 09/19/08

Loc: Utah
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5605948 - 01/05/13 02:29 AM

Where do you observe mostly? Dark site or light pollution? I ask and others will disagree but I wouldn't jump from a 10 to a 12 in LP as its not enough of a jump to matter for me (nothing with more light gathering etc.I just don't see enough of a difference in details in a LP). Also, the if you like your ten and use it a lot that might just say that's the right size. I did see a difference from 10 to 14 in both LP and at dark sites(there are light weight options at 14). A 12 at a dark site with a good mirror will increase detail, and contrast and structure in DSO's if those are the items your going for. Last, and I'd rather have a ten with a very good mirror then a 12 with a so so mirror. This could change somewhat if planets and doubles are your objects.

Edit:I still own my 10 and one thing to consider is upgrading some items on your 10 as many here have done.

Edited by JayinUT (01/05/13 02:33 AM)


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denis0007dl
sage
***

Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? new [Re: JayinUT]
      #5606046 - 01/05/13 05:43 AM

Thanxs everyone for sugestions!

So, which mirrors, Orion UK with 1/10 lambda and 97% reflectivity, Zambuto mirrors (I did not found their specifications for mirrors), Discovery Telescopes or....


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dpwoos
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/18/06

Loc: United States
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5606113 - 01/05/13 08:30 AM

There are folks who claim that beyond a certain point it doesn't matter, and that seeking out a great mirror has little or nothing to do with achieving great views. If that is what they see, then fine for them. It is not what I see, nor what (most) of the folks that I observe with see. If you haven't yet made up your mind about this, then I strongly suggest that you seek out your (local) astro club, where (I hope) you can check it out for yourself.

For sure Zambuto mirrors have a great reputation, so much so that I sometimes wonder if it is over the top. However, if one accepts it as deserved (and I am not claiming otherwise) then it seems like getting a Zambuto optic guarantees excellence (c.f. Roland Christen). I am sure that there are others that folks feel just as strongly about, and one or more of them might be near you? Where I am (Vermont), we are fortunate to have a fellow who does outstanding work, and the views with his mirrors are always as good as (or better than) any in the field. Using a locally made mirror is really wonderful, and I suggest you take advantage of that if at all possible.

Finally, the proof is in the views through the eyepiece and not in the name on the mirror.

Edited by dpwoos (01/05/13 08:31 AM)


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Wave Vector
sage


Reged: 04/01/06

Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? [Re: lbsgville]
      #5608452 - 01/06/13 01:59 PM

A ten inch grab and go? Really?

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Achernar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth? [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5608701 - 01/06/13 04:01 PM

There is a noticeable improvement when it comes to faint objects like galaxies when you're in a dark area. However, from a light polluted area or when you're observing Solar System objects, I doubt you would see much of a difference. In other words, to see a major gain in light gathering power and resolution, you'll be looking at a 14 to 16-inch class telescope.

Taras


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