Rutilus
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/17/10
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: johnnyha]
#5601398 - 01/02/13 03:00 PM Attachment (103 downloads)
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For just visual use, I would say that you do not need to spend a fortune to get outstanding views.
Over the Christmas period I have been testing my my home-built Carton lens 100mmm f/13 up against
a Tak TSA-102, a superb Tak FS-102 and a skywatcher 100ED.
From what I Observed, I would put the Carton right up there with both the Taks.
Here she is, a superb performing scope that cost less than
many high-end eyepeices.
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mikey cee
Postmaster
Reged: 01/18/07
Loc: bellevue ne.
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: Rutilus]
#5601659 - 01/02/13 05:52 PM
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This thread has not only very high quality scopes in it but has about as much "brand loyalty" built into it too. I'd definitely agree with you Rutilus. If he believes that his Carton 100mm F/13 ranks right up there with Taks I think he has a valid point. Therefore being an Istar lens user I'd definitely place Istar's triplets and fluorite ED's right at the top of the mix. I definitely believe the Istars are the "sleepers" currently available!  Mike
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AlbertoJ
member
Reged: 02/20/08
Loc: Madrid (Spain)
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: mikey cee]
#5601975 - 01/02/13 09:14 PM
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Refractors new available under $6K:
-Takahashi TSA-120.
-Takahashi TSA-102.
-TEC-140.
-Tele Vue NP-101.
-Tele Vue 85.
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teelgul
super member
Reged: 09/02/11
Loc: Australia
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: mikey cee]
#5602037 - 01/02/13 10:03 PM
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Quote:
This thread has not only very high quality scopes in it but has about as much "brand loyalty" built into it too. I'd definitely agree with you Rutilus. If he believes that his Carton 100mm F/13 ranks right up there with Taks I think he has a valid point. Therefore being an Istar lens user I'd definitely place Istar's triplets and fluorite ED's right at the top of the mix. I definitely believe the Istars are the "sleepers" currently available! Mike
may be televue ,i star ,carton all have lenses from the same source.
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ohioalfa64
member
Reged: 08/16/12
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: teelgul]
#5603680 - 01/03/13 08:48 PM
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What if this became the 10 best used refractors priced below $2000 on CN and AM? You see the prices daily. If you think the best bargains are under $1000 then identify those. Sorry for spinning this thread but I am trying to find timely info for this ever broadening category.
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BarrySimon615
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/01/04
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: AlbertoJ]
#5604568 - 01/04/13 11:11 AM
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Refractors new available under $6K:
-Takahashi TSA-120.
-Takahashi TSA-102.
-TEC-140.
-Tele Vue NP-101.
-Tele Vue 85.
AlbertoJ is one who is sticking to the guidelines originally stated - basically Top 10 Current/Modern Refractors. How do we define modern? Modern is very subjective, and is it that important if an old design is still being produced (which keeps it current). Several scopes have been mentioned here in this thread which are no longer current in the respect that they are not available new - FS102, FS128, FS152, AP Traveler, Celestron C102 or fluorite 102, to name a few. Yes, they do come up on occasion on the used market, but not as new scopes.
Perhaps a better way to load the horses in the gate so to speak would be to keep one of the parameters as "Current" but to create size categories. Another variable would be - can be ordered today, and in my hands in one year or less. Price becomes irrelevant in respect to inclusion on the list, but price should be listed to let the prospective buyer decide what he or she can afford. Finally references should be specified so that the claim of superiority can be checked out - for example, put a link to a thread or threads or review that back up the claim of "Top 10". So for example, the basic outline would be something like"
Top Telescopes by Size -
8" and up -
Telescope size, brand, cost, wait time - cite references/reviews
6 inches to 7.999 inches
Telescope size, brand, cost, wait time - cite references/reviews
5 inches to 5.999 inches
(as above)
4 inches to 4.999 inches
(as above)
Under 4 inches
(as above)
In short there are a lot of good scopes out there and based upon all variables, different scopes are suited best for different people for different reasons. Give the buyer information that is relevant and let him decide what is important.
Barry Simon
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astro_baby
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/17/08
Loc: United Kingdom
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: BarrySimon615]
#5605363 - 01/04/13 06:47 PM
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Surely you'd have to put the TAL 100 RS in there as an achromat at a great price. Ok its not as glam as some but its a pretty amazing frac for the money. Not sure you dould call it modern as its a bit of an style scope in many respects but still being made in Siberia.
Its very well regarded by many folk and mine would be the only scope I would never part with.
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ohioalfa64
member
Reged: 08/16/12
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: astro_baby]
#5605384 - 01/04/13 06:59 PM
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I like Barry's standards for attempting to segment the refractor field. Then I completely disagree with Astro Baby as emotion, and lack of exposure to other product governs his decision. I realize it is hard to be pragmatic if your experience is limited. But, if a,top 10 can be created by segment (as Barry suggests) then that would be a fairly largely inclusive field. Not every scope made in Siberia or Mongolia would likely make it, but that is not unexpected.
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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/23/05
Loc: Virginia
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: ohioalfa64]
#5605895 - 01/05/13 01:15 AM
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Only relatively few made thus far, but I think the AP 140 EDF deserves consideration for inclusion on such a list. I think it was in 6k territory when introduced...?
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catboat
sage
Reged: 12/01/09
Loc: Maine
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: ohioalfa64]
#5606060 - 01/05/13 06:21 AM
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Quote:
I like Barry's standards for attempting to segment the refractor field. Then I completely disagree with Astro Baby as emotion, and lack of exposure to other product governs his decision. I realize it is hard to be pragmatic if your experience is limited. But, if a,top 10 can be created by segment (as Barry suggests) then that would be a fairly largely inclusive field. Not every scope made in Siberia or Mongolia would likely make it, but that is not unexpected.
Ohioalpha64,
Hmm… We're not in Kansas anymore. The TAL may be made in Siberia, but TAL products are well known in the UK. With a modicum of ingenuity, you could get one in the U.S. more easily than many of the refractors that are likely to be noted in this thread.
Given the open criteria stated by the OP (and value is one), I see no reason why the TAL should not be mentioned here. As for astrobaby's judgement being governed by "lack of exposure", perhaps you know this to be the case, but I don't.
Emotion?… LOL on a refractor thread.
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ohioalfa64
member
Reged: 08/16/12
Loc: Ohio
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: catboat]
#5606096 - 01/05/13 08:07 AM
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Ha! I accept your position and stand corrected.
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RAKing
Postmaster
Reged: 12/28/07
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: AlbertoJ]
#5606174 - 01/05/13 09:25 AM
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Refractors new available under $6K:
-Takahashi TSA-120.
-Takahashi TSA-102.
-TEC-140.
-Tele Vue NP-101.
-Tele Vue 85.
This is a good start and I would add my TMB 130SS and the TMB 92 to the list.
My old Tak TOA 130 was under $6k when I owned it, but the price has gone over the limit now.
Cheers,
Ron
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Scott99
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/07
Loc: New England
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: RAKing]
#5606470 - 01/05/13 12:08 PM
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Over $6,000, I would immediately pick the large LZOS and Tak refractors, 12 inches and up. I'll take one of each of the 10 most expensive scopes from those companies. Thank you!
should give me a nice collection of 12-20 inch apos. Let's start with one of these, and then take a look at what LZOS has to offer:
http://www.takahashi-europe.com/en/FET-300.php
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BillP
Postmaster
Reged: 11/26/06
Loc: Vienna, VA
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: Scott99]
#5606597 - 01/05/13 01:09 PM
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My candidates (11), based on achieved long term reputation/popularity/availability as commented by others across forums (ordered by aperture)...
CR6 Achromat
TOA-150
TEC-140 APO
TOA-130 APO
AP 130-class APOs
ST120 Achromat
EON 120
TSA-102 APO
NP-101 APO
TV-85
80mm EDs+APOs (all of them collectively)
Of course, some of these have multiple brandings.
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Napersky
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/27/10
Loc: Chicagoland
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: BillP]
#5606702 - 01/05/13 02:08 PM
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Best Overall Value in Top Grade Refractor available new Today would be the 6" LZOS APM for $3,999.
This is an unbelievable deal.
Mark
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johnnyha
Postmaster
Reged: 11/12/06
Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: Napersky]
#5606747 - 01/05/13 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Best Overall Value in Top Grade Refractor available new Today would be the 6" LZOS APM for $3,999.
This is an unbelievable deal .
Mark
Actually the 6" LZOS doublet lens in cel is considerably more expensive than the 6" ED APO doublet..
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Red Shift
super member
Reged: 11/09/11
Loc: Bloomfield, New Jersey, USA
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: BarrySimon615]
#5606842 - 01/05/13 03:38 PM
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[quote
AlbertoJ is one who is sticking to the guidelines originally stated - basically Top 10 Current/Modern Refractors. How do we define modern? Modern is very subjective, and is it that important if an old design is still being produced (which keeps it current). Several scopes have been mentioned here in this thread which are no longer current in the respect that they are not available new - FS102, FS128, FS152, AP Traveler, Celestron C102 or fluorite 102, to name a few. Yes, they do come up on occasion on the used market, but not as new scopes.
Perhaps a better way to load the horses in the gate so to speak would be to keep one of the parameters as "Current" but to create size categories. Another variable would be - can be ordered today, and in my hands in one year or less. Price becomes irrelevant in respect to inclusion on the list, but price should be listed to let the prospective buyer decide what he or she can afford. Finally references should be specified so that the claim of superiority can be checked out - for example, put a link to a thread or threads or review that back up the claim of "Top 10". So for example, the basic outline would be something like"
Top Telescopes by Size -
8" and up -
Telescope size, brand, cost, wait time - cite references/reviews
6 inches to 7.999 inches
Telescope size, brand, cost, wait time - cite references/reviews
5 inches to 5.999 inches
(as above)
4 inches to 4.999 inches
(as above)
Under 4 inches
(as above)
In short there are a lot of good scopes out there and based upon all variables, different scopes are suited best for different people for different reasons. Give the buyer information that is relevant and let him decide what is important.
Barry Simon
Barry,
I like YOUR idea......
categories
"Currently available as new", and "Previously manufactured -no longer available as new"
and
The objective size category.
Good thinking on your part.....
This will make this thread or new threads SO much better for
categorizing the info into a usable format.
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kepler22
member
Reged: 12/31/12
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: Red Shift]
#5606928 - 01/05/13 04:33 PM
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THE POUND FOR POUND KING THE MASTER OF MASTERS THE TOA-150
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MAURITS
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/22/09
Loc: Diksmuide (Belgium)
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors
[Re: kepler22]
#5606988 - 01/05/13 05:24 PM
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Kepler22, welcome on board with your first post and picture!
That's the way I think about the TOA-150 
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fmasa
newbie
Reged: 05/19/12
Loc: Japan
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Re: Top 10 Current or Modern Refractors *DELETED*
[Re: Kevin Barker]
#5607002 - 01/05/13 05:36 PM
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