dennyhenke
super member
Reged: 09/07/12
Loc: Fredericktown, MO
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: rflinn68]
#5602278 - 01/03/13 01:34 AM
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I considered the 12" LB but went withe the Z12 to save money. From what I've read, optically speaking,mthe difference is negligible. I live on a dark site so I don't have to transport.
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Very interesting, but what happened to 5? 
Do you like your 12" Lightbridge? I'm wanting at least a 16" and I'm thinking about getting one. The OP might also want to consider a 12" LB
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dennyhenke
super member
Reged: 09/07/12
Loc: Fredericktown, MO
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: Galicapernistein]
#5602283 - 01/03/13 01:37 AM
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Thanks so much for providing all the details! From what I am reading I think I'll be very happy with the upgrade... Should tide me over till I get that 48"
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Thanks Clay. I am hoping to get a more specific sense of what kind of increased detail I'll be able to see. In other words, when looking at some of the galaxies, will I see structure? Dust lanes? I know I've read that you need a 16" to start seeing the filaments of the Crab Nebula...
In other words, will I look through the 12" and just see slightly brighter objects but no greater detail? My expectation is that the 4" increase will result in at least some increase in the visibility of structure of these objects.
I have both an 8" and 12" inch dob, and these are some of the specific differences I see between the two (from a dark sky site):
1) 12" - The spiral arm on the outer edge of the dust lane of the Andromeda Galaxy is faint in the 12".
8" - Invisible.
2) 12" - The spiral arms of the Whirlpool Galaxy appear with even the slightest averted vision; brighter portions of the arms stand out in moments of good seeing.
8" - The spiral arms are two vague hazes that circle the brighter center.
3) 12" - The brighter arm of the Triangulum Galaxy appears as a lumpy haze that stretches out to NGC 604, the bright star forming region at the end of the arm. NGC 604 itself appears slightly lumpy.
8" - A few of the brightest star forming regions of the spiral arm can be seen with averted vison. NGC 604 is visible, but as a fuzzy blob.
4) 12" - The companion galaxies of NGC 7331 are visible with averted vision.
8" - Forget about it.
6) 12" - The galaxies in Stephan's Quintet can be partly separated in moments of good seeing.
8" - What Stephan's Quintet?.
These are just a few examples of the differences I see, although your results may vary. A 12" will definitely take you into a new range of seeing, just as a 16" will take you into an even higher range. If I didnt' have to drive to a dark sky site, I would have a 16" scope, but as it is, portability is my first concern.
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JIMZ7
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/22/05
Loc: S.E.Michigan near DTW
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: dennyhenke]
#5602516 - 01/03/13 08:36 AM
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From 8" to 12" opens the heavens as never before . M-57 in 4th magnitude skies can be seen directly without avert vision. M-13 now looks like a dense open star cluster. M-31 almost fills the entire eyepiece at low power. But again this is in the "white zone" outside of Detroit. Imagine the views in darker skies.
Jim 
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kfiscus
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/09/12
Loc: Albert Lea, MN, USA
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: JIMZ7]
#5604026 - 01/04/13 02:58 AM
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2 words: Horse. Head.
Got it tonight with the Z12 on my first serious attempt ever- no filter.
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planet earth
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/07/10
Loc: Ontario Canada
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: panhard]
#5604095 - 01/04/13 05:06 AM
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Dennyhenke: The difference will blow your socks off. 
Yes, that pretty well sums it up. 
Sam
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dennyhenke
super member
Reged: 09/07/12
Loc: Fredericktown, MO
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: planet earth]
#5604694 - 01/04/13 12:32 PM
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It is scheduled to arrive today, clear skies forecast for tonight!
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cpr1
sage
Reged: 03/24/12
Loc: Louisiana
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: dennyhenke]
#5605274 - 01/04/13 05:41 PM
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Cool, get ready for some big boxes.
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kfiscus
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/09/12
Loc: Albert Lea, MN, USA
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: cpr1]
#5605528 - 01/04/13 08:29 PM
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Save the OTA box and foam for perpetuity.
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dennyhenke
super member
Reged: 09/07/12
Loc: Fredericktown, MO
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: kfiscus]
#5606517 - 01/05/13 12:39 PM
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Got it put together in about an hour. Had a little trouble getting it collimated. The black handled, spring loaded screws were not quite doing it but when I then tweaked the white handled screws lock screws that did the trick. Not sure why I have to use the lock screws to adjust but it makes sense that it would help as some have said that locking in collimation can alter things, I just used it to my advantage! Guessing maybe I need to upgrade those screws as many seem to do. The Telrad is very nice to use! I doubt I'll ever bother using the scope's included finder... Does anyone actually use those?
Got some great views in during my 6+ hours at the scope!! Most notable of the night was a revisit to NGC 2158, open cluster in Gemini. In previous viewings with the 8" it was a fairly faint, nebulous sphere with very little resolution of stars. With the 12"? Very nice resolution of many stars... huge improvement.
Dust lanes in M31? Yes, very well defined. Added definition in the Orion Nebula was very nice!
Picking up some of the 11 and 12 mag galaxies in Ursa Major that remained on my Herschel 400 list was a breeze. Will be interesting to revisit what I've already seen with the 8" to see what new details are visible!
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dennyhenke
super member
Reged: 09/07/12
Loc: Fredericktown, MO
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: dennyhenke]
#5606527 - 01/05/13 12:43 PM
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Oh, and I should add, this thing is big and heavy! I mean, yes, obviously I expected both but the reality is quite impressive. I'm guessing I'll get used to lifting and maneuvering it but am really looking forward to building it a little outhouse roll-off type shed and leaving it in place!
Do folks out there name their scopes? The obvious choice is Big Bertha though that's not very original.
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panhard
It's All Good
Reged: 01/20/08
Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: dennyhenke]
#5606581 - 01/05/13 01:03 PM
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I call mine monster.
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Tim L
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/17/08
Loc: Missouri
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: dennyhenke]
#5606878 - 01/05/13 04:00 PM
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I doubt I'll ever bother using the scope's included finder... Does anyone actually use those?
I still like to use the RACI. If I get slightly off my target when switching EPs, it's a breeze to get right back.
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Got some great views in during my 6+ hours at the scope!!
I'm impressed, given how cold it's been lately! I'm a winter viewing wimp. Really wanted to last night, but freezing temps kept me in.
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cpr1
sage
Reged: 03/24/12
Loc: Louisiana
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: Tim L]
#5607071 - 01/05/13 06:08 PM
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Congrats on your new scope. I assume it arrived with no dents?
If so that's great. Enjoy.
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dennyhenke
super member
Reged: 09/07/12
Loc: Fredericktown, MO
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: cpr1]
#5607185 - 01/05/13 07:33 PM
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Christopher, yes, no dents! Box was almost perfect. I was a bit worried about that.
Tim, thanks for the tip. I'm so used to using the red dot that I'd not considered possible uses. There have been a couple occasions where I bumped the scope and had trouble making it back!
As for the cold, I'm wimpy too but I layer up with a crazy amount of layers... usually 4 pairs of pants, 2-3 shirts, jacket AND a coat then gloves, ski mask and of course 2 pairs of socks in insulated boots. Still, it's always the feet that get cold first.
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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: dennyhenke]
#5607205 - 01/05/13 07:53 PM
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Denny
Congratulations on your new scope...
12 inches is a great size, big enough to do some real damage but still compact enough to be easily transported...
Jon
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kfiscus
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/09/12
Loc: Albert Lea, MN, USA
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: dennyhenke]
#5607244 - 01/05/13 08:28 PM
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Congrats again on the new scope. Glad to hear you're dentless. I sold my RACI and use the straight one I already had. No name for mine. I've never named any of 'em. They tend to come and go frequently and each new one is bigger than the last...
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cpr1
sage
Reged: 03/24/12
Loc: Louisiana
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: kfiscus]
#5607271 - 01/05/13 08:43 PM
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I like using my right angle finder in conjunction with a telrad. After a while it gets easy and quick. I find it helps me locate hard to find objects. 3 step process... locate most recognizable area or star with the telrad (closest you can get it.) then use right angle finder to get very close. Then use a finder eyepiece and confirm but remember everything is upside down and reversed.
Happens quickly with practice.
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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: cpr1]
#5607665 - 01/06/13 01:17 AM
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I like using my right angle finder in conjunction with a telrad. After a while it gets easy and quick. I find it helps me locate hard to find objects. 3 step process... locate most recognizable area or star with the telrad (closest you can get it.) then use right angle finder to get very close. Then use a finder eyepiece and confirm but remember everything is upside down and reversed.
Happens quickly with practice.
With a Telrad and reasonably dark skies, I find it is often possible to get "very close" by using the Telrad's reticule circles to point the scope, not need for the magnifying finder, I go straight to a low power eyepiece.
Jon
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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/29/10
Loc: SE Indiana
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Re: From Orion XT8 to Zhumell Z12 - What to expect?
[Re: dennyhenke]
#5608251 - 01/06/13 12:24 PM
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The Z12 is a real "wow" ;the first time I looked through mine I discovered there are no empty areas of the sky!
The Orion Nebula is my favorite test object to compare scopes and the extent and detail in a 12" are amazing.
The ONLY drawback to my Z12 is physically moving it across my rough yard.A scopehouse is a very good idea.
And thanks to Jon for his suggestion of the Sears digital level;the deluxe version with magnetic base and red laser is now sitting between the Z12 focuser and the RACI finder.The level gives me elevation angle to 1/10 of a degree.Once azimuth circle is put on the base then using Stellarium the Z12 will be practically "push-to" when desired.
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