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thewheel
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Reged: 07/01/09

Loc: Half Mile from Tucson
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: Dave Chapman]
      #5604894 - 01/04/13 02:16 PM Attachment (43 downloads)

Hi Folks, I gave this a shot at 11:53AM UT on 1/5/2013.

I labeled some stuff , wonder if you could tell me IF I have it labeled correctly?

I had to resize it a bit to get the 225Kb limit here.


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edosaurusrex
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Reged: 01/30/07

Loc: Ft Worth, TX
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: Magellan]
      #5604970 - 01/04/13 02:57 PM

Very good catch! Did you watch the ray until it completely collapsed?
Good report Dave, wish I could have seen it.
Ed


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Carol L

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Reged: 07/05/04

Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: edosaurusrex]
      #5605289 - 01/04/13 05:49 PM

(@ member 'thewheel': looks like you got everything labelled ok. )

Thanks for your detailed report, Dave - i viewed a bit earlier.
Not realizing how late it was when i posted last night (1:00 AM local, 07:00 UT), i decided to just stay up for a while longer and began viewing Luna through an eastern window at about 2:00 AM local (08:00 UT). The telescope used was an 80ST [400 fl; f/5] with a 9mm SWAN ep in a Klee 2.8 Barlow [123x]. The view was surprisingly decent despite the triple pane windows, and it didn't take more than a few moments to see that the X doesn't benefit from western illumination like it does during lunar sunrise.

It was still easy enough to see, but the high elevations of the Delaunay complex [NE of la Caille] were still illuminated and stole the X's thunder so to speak, by preventing the X from standing out like it does under opposing lightplay. The X's NE arm [between la Caille and Blanchinus] was already beginning to darken with shadow, and the NW arm [between la Caille and Purbach] was darker than the two southern arms - but brighter than the NE arm.

Jeff, Kudos on the great capture of the ray!
Dave, is the pseudo-X you mentioned in Jeff's image? The SW arm begins on the northern rim of Walter. (Yeah, yeah, i know - it's supposed to be 'Walther' but my copy of Rukl's says 'Walter' and i cut my lunar teeth on that atlas - old habits die hard. )


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Dave Chapman
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Reged: 01/27/07

Loc: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: Carol L]
      #5605515 - 01/04/13 08:23 PM

Quote:

(@ member 'thewheel': looks like you got everything labelled ok. )




@thewheel: Great photo! Based on my observations, you have labelled what I call the pseudo-X as the Purbach Cross (Lunar X, etc.) In your photo, the classic X (what remains of it) is just north of that (see Magellan's photo).

Quote:


Dave, is the pseudo-X you mentioned in Jeff's image? The SW arm begins on the northern rim of Walter. (Yeah, yeah, i know - it's supposed to be 'Walther' but my copy of Rukl's says 'Walter' and i cut my lunar teeth on that atlas - old habits die hard. )




Yes, Jeff has captured the X (what's left of it), the pseudo-X. and the Walther Ray. I only mentioned the pseudo-X as it could be mistaken for the X we were looking for. I call it "pseudo" as it is never completely surrounded by shadow, like the classic X.

The I.A.U. renamed Walter as Walther in 2000, as there exists another crater named Walter. That's good enough for me! http://the-moon.wikispaces.com/Walther


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edosaurusrex
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Reged: 01/30/07

Loc: Ft Worth, TX
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: edosaurusrex]
      #5605928 - 01/05/13 01:53 AM

After reading Dave's report I have revised the Sun Angle so the Sun is at 1.5deg. The 1deg I reported for the first set of predictions was an error. The actual Sun angle in the program was 0.5deg (I'm so ashamed)

REVERSE WERNER X PREDICTIONS FOR 2013
MMM DD HHMM UT

FEB 02 2324
MAR 04 1337
APR 03 0320
MAY 02 1619
JUN 01 0431
JUN 30 1604
JUL 30 0316
AUG 28 1427
SEP 27 0200
OCT 26 1412
NOV 25 0314
DEC 24 1707

Edited by edosaurusrex (01/05/13 01:56 AM)


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Magellan
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/26/06

Loc: Enfield, NS Canada
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: edosaurusrex]
      #5606563 - 01/05/13 12:55 PM

I redid the image, I think this is better, is my description right? I am a DS Imager starting to become a Lunatic

Telescope: Orion 8" F4 Newt
Mount: CGEM
Camera: Astro Modified Full Spectrum Canon XSi
Filter: Astronomik CLS (was already inserted as a clipin)
Date: January 4th, 2013
Time: 0652AST
Location: Enfield
Captured with BackyardEOS
Frames: 1425/1500

I have included insets this time of closeups of the two features captured on the early morning of January 4th.

The Walther Sunset Ray is the setting sun is peaking through peaks of a mountain on the moon thus illuminating only a small portion of the crater.

The Pseudo X is the sun setting on the moon only illuminating the peaks of the mountain. This is called a Pseudo X because Werner X (The same effect on the rising sun side of the moon, First Quarter, is in complete darkness) this X is not in complete darkness making it less obvious as the surrounding area is partially illuminated.


MOON_100iso_06h52-1425Frames by AstroJeff, on Flickr


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edosaurusrex
sage
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Reged: 01/30/07

Loc: Ft Worth, TX
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: Magellan]
      #5606610 - 01/05/13 01:15 PM

The shadow of Walther's peak can be seen on the crater wall!

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Dave Chapman
sage
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Reged: 01/27/07

Loc: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: edosaurusrex]
      #5606712 - 01/05/13 02:14 PM

Hey man, that's how we move this project along! I 100% agree with your re-calculations, although I use a spreadsheet tool. Unfortunately, I do not seem to be well-placed for observing this event for the rest of the year. In the wrong hemisphere, I guess! That's how it goes, with the X, I find.

Dave XVII


Quote:

After reading Dave's report I have revised the Sun Angle so the Sun is at 1.5deg. The 1deg I reported for the first set of predictions was an error. The actual Sun angle in the program was 0.5deg (I'm so ashamed)

REVERSE WERNER X PREDICTIONS FOR 2013
MMM DD HHMM UT

FEB 02 2324
MAR 04 1337
APR 03 0320
MAY 02 1619
JUN 01 0431
JUN 30 1604
JUL 30 0316
AUG 28 1427
SEP 27 0200
OCT 26 1412
NOV 25 0314
DEC 24 1707




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Carol L

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Reged: 07/05/04

Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: Dave Chapman]
      #5606759 - 01/05/13 02:50 PM

Quote:

In your photo, the classic X (what remains of it) is just north of that (see Magellan's photo).




You're absolutely right Dave - at a glance, i thought it was the Purbach Cross. I'd apparently seen the pseudo-X in the past, it's on the bottom half of the pic in my original post. But it went unnoticed at the time because i was concentrating on the intended target.

Here's something interesting - on the upper sunrise portion of my pic, i see a black pseudo-X formed by the shadows of Werner's western wall and the inside of Regiomontanus' eastern wall.


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edosaurusrex
sage
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Reged: 01/30/07

Loc: Ft Worth, TX
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: Dave Chapman]
      #5606761 - 01/05/13 02:51 PM

Dave!

Hopefully, one of the small group of people that are looking for this will be on the other side of the world.

You can see what I call the "Cat's Paw" (Walther central peak area) in the inset of Jeff's latest photo.

Ed


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Carol L

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Reged: 07/05/04

Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: edosaurusrex]
      #5606778 - 01/05/13 02:59 PM

Thanks for the updated info, Ed!

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thewheel
member


Reged: 07/01/09

Loc: Half Mile from Tucson
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: Dave Chapman]
      #5610231 - 01/07/13 01:16 PM Attachment (21 downloads)

Thanks, Carol.

I made some little mistakes, tried to fix them on this one ,
used Virtual Moon Atlas and the LPL Lunar and Planetary Website to get some annotated real photos from a lunar satellite:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/lunar_orbiter/bin/srch_nam.shtml?REGIOMONTA...


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Carol L

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Reged: 07/05/04

Loc: Tomahawk, WI 45N//89W
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project [Re: thewheel]
      #5610435 - 01/07/13 03:28 PM

You're welcome. It looks like your Mystery Top is the inside of la Caille's NE rim. Also, there are 2 very small points of light 'just' above the top of the pseudo-X that are most likely the two southern tips of Purbach X's arms.
(BTW, i love your 'Uncle Walter' label. )


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67champ
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/03/06

Loc: Ohio, USA
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: Carol L]
      #5614282 - 01/09/13 06:54 PM

Great idea Carol; nice job everyone.

dana t

Edited by 67champ (01/09/13 06:55 PM)


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67champ
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/03/06

Loc: Ohio, USA
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: 67champ]
      #5689650 - 02/19/13 08:16 PM Attachment (9 downloads)

Dug this out of the archives... ah, This "X" is a little more interesting than I remembered it... February 9, 2007 10:10 UT.

dana t


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67champ
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/03/06

Loc: Ohio, USA
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: 67champ]
      #5689682 - 02/19/13 08:38 PM Attachment (9 downloads)

Resized...

dana t


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edosaurusrex
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Reged: 01/30/07

Loc: Ft Worth, TX
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: 67champ]
      #5689806 - 02/19/13 09:54 PM

Dana et al,
09 FEB 2007 at 1932 UT would have been the prediction for a 1.5deg Sun elevation. So that puts the photo at an elevation of about 6 degrees.

Ed


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67champ
professor emeritus


Reged: 07/03/06

Loc: Ohio, USA
Re: Purbach Cross (Lunar X) - Sunset Viewing Project new [Re: edosaurusrex]
      #5690380 - 02/20/13 08:49 AM

Co-long of appprox. 172.79 with a sunset illumination fraction of approx. .596 for my photo Feb. 09, 2007.

dana t


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