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Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

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SunBlack
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/05/11

Loc: Rome (IT)
Re: Celestron VX mount new [Re: SunBlack]
      #5984722 - 07/22/13 04:17 PM

UP.....
Quote:

Another quick question: i supposed to have read that Vixen GP polar scope is compatible with CG5 mounts (with VX then too), am i wrong?




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rockstarbill
super member


Reged: 07/16/13

Loc: Snohomish, WA
Re: Celestron VX mount new [Re: KevinS]
      #5987287 - 07/24/13 02:03 AM

First night getting the AVX set up for some long exposures. I do not have my Orion Autoguider set up yet as I made the mistake of not realizing I needed a different mounting bracket, so I had to order one. Luckily it comes tomorrow. Anyhow, a few observations:

1. The All Star Polar Align process is fantastic! It did not take long at all to do, and the results seem to be quite good.

2. Thus far, I am able to take 120 second exposures without any star trails. For my run tonight, I am doing just that for 80 exposures.

3. I must be blind, but the book keeps stating there is a built in bubble level. I certainly do not see one. Luckily I have other levels.

4. I wouldn't know any better (my first GEM) but I absolutely love this thing. The controls are placed in perfect locations, the software works well, and its tracking is quite good.

-Bill


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ohata0
member


Reged: 03/10/09

Loc: Hawaii, USA
Re: Celestron VX mount new [Re: rockstarbill]
      #5987382 - 07/24/13 05:36 AM

i just got mine late last week. took it out a couple of times since then, but the weather wasn't cooperating at all. wanted to get used to setting it up and all that.

had trouble getting the gotos to be accurate, as well as doing polar alignment, but that's probably because of the very limited window i had to align the stars before some clouds covered it, that and with the limited open sky i had, it was a little difficult to figure out if i was on the right star or not.

i just got the finderscope in today, which completes my vx , ssag autoguider package and adm universal dovetail order.

decided to go w/ the vx over the zeq25 since i live in hawaii, so shipping on the zeq25 is an extra $125 (vx had free shipping from opt), plus the $80 off for the celestron summer sale. wasn't planning on buying the autoguider yet, but got that since the autoguider was on sale, plus there was another coupon code for $50 orders over $400 (got the deluxe finderscope over the normal one).

i like it so far, but i really want the clouds to go away so i can practice the alignment routines. can't really start imaging without getting better at that (especially the polar alignment part). i'll learn the autoguiding later on, after i get used to imaging with it.

oh yeah, there is no bubble level on the vx. i don't remember where i read it (maybe this thread), but there is a typo in the manual. also, it says that when putting the attaching the mount to the tripod to turn it clockwise...is that a typo as well? because i have to turn it counter-clockwise.


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fldba
member
*****

Reged: 01/06/11

Loc: CT
Re: Celestron VX mount new [Re: ohata0]
      #5987483 - 07/24/13 08:22 AM

Does anyone know what the thread size is for the central rod that attaches the eq mount to the tripod head? Is it M12 x 1.75mm coarse? I just received a new AVX mount and the central rod does not thread completely into the mount base so it is not secure. I suspect there is a burr in the threads that I might be able to clean out using a tap. Just need to know what size to buy.

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rockstarbill
super member


Reged: 07/16/13

Loc: Snohomish, WA
Re: Celestron VX mount new [Re: ohata0]
      #5987840 - 07/24/13 01:23 PM

Quote:


had trouble getting the gotos to be accurate, as well as doing polar alignment, but that's probably because of the very limited window i had to align the stars before some clouds covered it, that and with the limited open sky i had, it was a little difficult to figure out if i was on the right star or not.

i like it so far, but i really want the clouds to go away so i can practice the alignment routines. can't really start imaging without getting better at that (especially the polar alignment part). i'll learn the autoguiding later on, after i get used to imaging with it.

oh yeah, there is no bubble level on the vx. i don't remember where i read it (maybe this thread), but there is a typo in the manual. also, it says that when putting the attaching the mount to the tripod to turn it clockwise...is that a typo as well? because i have to turn it counter-clockwise.




There are apps that can help you identify stars. SkySafari is a good one, and I will not observe or image without it now! At the beginning of the evening, I set my scope up and ensure I am facing due north (I use a compass to ensure it is dead on). Then I start my 2-star align, add a third star (it will ask if you want it to), then run through the Polar Alignment process via the software. Once that is complete, my Go-To's are right on the money. In fact, after a night of tracking NGC7000 (roughly 2hrs 45mins) I used the hand control to point to M31 and no adjustments were needed. It was already dead center in my eyepiece.

I gave up on the ghost bubble level . I don't extend the tripod legs at all (I do use the vibration pads though), so I am usually bang on in terms of level anyhow. I am not sure what you are referring to about turning something clockwise or counter-clockwise. Setup was a breeze and quite non-eventful. The only snafu I had was finding the bubble level that does not exist.


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ohata0
member


Reged: 03/10/09

Loc: Hawaii, USA
Re: Celestron VX mount new [Re: rockstarbill]
      #5994207 - 07/28/13 07:02 AM

still playing around with it, currently typing this hoping that the clouds will go away (probably won't though).

i was wondering why i had so much trouble with my gotos and then was wondering why tonight the moon didn't show up as something i could slew to. decided to check the time settings again, and found the hawaii time zone (i selected pacific earlier).

hopefully that helps make my gotos more accurate. should also get rid of that meridian problem i had earlier with my previous gotos (thought it was a time issue, but i assumed it was a daylight savings glitch. didn't think to check the time zone...i figured i live in the pacific (ocean), and that entering the longitude gave me the correct time zone). >_<

other good news is that i've finally got astrotortilla setup and working for the most part, so that should help when my gotos are really off. now just gotta get clear skies so i can practice my polar alignment. if i have a nice stretch of clear skies, i'll probably try the 2+4 alignment + aspa and see how well that does.

oh yeah, the clockwise thing was the part in the manual about putting the mount on the tripod (which way to turn the mounting knob). i thought it was a typo...it's just a point of view thing. it's clockwise to tighten the screw from underneath, and counterclockwise from above.

Edited by ohata0 (07/28/13 07:47 AM)


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RTLR 12
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/04/08

Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
Re: Celestron VX mount new [Re: ohata0]
      #5994216 - 07/28/13 07:14 AM

I just noticed the AVX is on sale for $719.

Stan


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ohata0
member


Reged: 03/10/09

Loc: Hawaii, USA
Re: Celestron VX mount new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #5994235 - 07/28/13 07:47 AM

yup, on sale until the end of august.

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ewave
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/16/09

Loc: northwest NJ
Re: Celestron VX mount new [Re: RTLR 12]
      #5994239 - 07/28/13 07:51 AM

Quote:

I just noticed the AVX is on sale for $719.

Stan




Ahh, you finally figured this out, I think it's a great price, even with the CG5 offered at $550. Now off to find me some small bubble levels and get em retrofitted.


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RTLR 12
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/04/08

Loc: The Great Pacific NorthWest
Re: Celestron VX mount new [Re: ewave]
      #5994478 - 07/28/13 10:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I just noticed the AVX is on sale for $719.

Stan




Ahh, you finally figured this out, I think it's a great price, even with the CG5 offered at $550. Now off to find me some small bubble levels and get em retrofitted.




I used these for my CGEM when the level lost it's fluid.

Stan

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00AY40ESA/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&co...


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Celestron VX mount new [Re: ewave]
      #5994733 - 07/28/13 01:16 PM

Quote:


Ahh, you finally figured this out, I think it's a great price, even with the CG5 offered at $550. Now off to find me some small bubble levels and get em retrofitted.




Why do you need a bubble level with a GEM?


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Carl N
sage
*****

Reged: 03/18/12

Loc: San Diego, CA
Re: Celestron VX mount new [Re: rmollise]
      #5994780 - 07/28/13 01:52 PM

I use a small, 4", straight level when I set up my tripod instead of a spirit level. I align one leg to north and use my military peep-sight compass to check. Then I use my level to adjust leg height. I do this by checking with the level in the N-S axis, then again in the E-W axis. I also did a perfect drift alignment once, and do not move my mounts latitude adjustment since then.

While this is not needed, when you ASPA it corrects for leveling issues, I find that the closer to level and polar aligned you start, the better.

Better meaning... In the initial all star alignment the mount has less error so that my 5mm reticle eyepiece has the star in the field of view. While the ASPA will get you aligned just fine for visual. I note that when I do the alignment, then ASPA, then align and ASPA again, the second ASPA still requires some correction. This second correction is less the closer to level the mount is at the beginning.

I could be totally wrong, but it seems to me, particularly for AP use, that while the mount computer may be able to correct for imperfect level and imperfect polar alignment, that correction works best for go-to pointing.
While the computer can correct for pointing, it can't change the fact that your Dec and RA axis are physically "fixed". So any degree of error in these two physical axis introduces opportunity for tracking error.
Even if the computer makes adjustments in tracking, it does this by introducing movement in both axis to compensate for imperfect level, and imperfect latitude setting of the mount. If these were perfect, then for tracking, the mount only has to rotate one axis. So, by having the latitude properly set and the mount level, my mount should only have to track by engaging one axis.

By having only one axis tracking, the backlash and other gear imperfections are minimized. Certainly guidescopes and all correct for this, but since it is a simple 30 second procedure to get level, why not minimize corrections being made?


Of course, for visual use, I don't worry about it and do the alignment and go. ASPA isn't even needed.

Have I just demonstrated my ignorance of how it all works? Or does this make sense?

Carl

Edited by Carl N (07/28/13 02:03 PM)


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ewave
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 05/16/09

Loc: northwest NJ
Re: Celestron VX mount [Re: rmollise]
      #5995107 - 07/28/13 04:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Ahh, you finally figured this out, I think it's a great price, even with the CG5 offered at $550. Now off to find me some small bubble levels and get em retrofitted.




Why do you need a bubble level with a GEM?




Unc,
I like to level for quick setup and go and use a quick two star align, for just visual of course. This has worked for me in the past.


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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Celestron VX mount [Re: ewave]
      #5995326 - 07/28/13 07:09 PM

Polar alignment doesn't require level. Level has no effect on it. Neither does go-to alignment. It can make a drift alignment a little easier, however.

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Moromete
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/15/12

Loc: Romania
Re: Celestron VX mount [Re: rmollise]
      #6005912 - 08/04/13 07:07 AM

What does the "integer gear ratios" mean in case of the AVX and what are the advantages/disadvantages of this approach?

How is AVX GOTO pointing accuracy compared to CG5-GT? Are there any significant improvements at high powers or is the same thing?


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Holltim4103
member
*****

Reged: 02/25/13

Loc: Plattsburgh, NY
Re: Celestron VX mount [Re: fldba]
      #6006018 - 08/04/13 10:52 AM

The center rod is M10 x 1.5. I had the same issue and used a tap and dye set to clean all the threads for a perfect fit.

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Eric38
member
*****

Reged: 05/04/07

Loc: Chicago
Re: Celestron VX mount [Re: Holltim4103]
      #6006097 - 08/04/13 01:01 PM

One of the first things that I noticed with the AVX I just got is that even with the optional GPS running you still have to manually select your correct time zone and daylight savings time. Kind of an oversight I suspect. Also if you plan on using the USB-serial interface on a windows 7 or 8 PC, good luck because the cable manufacturers and Microsoft are not working together on that. I would really hope that the telescope manufacturers will get on board with a straight USB interface.

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rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Celestron VX mount [Re: Eric38]
      #6006340 - 08/04/13 05:46 PM

Not sure what you mean regarding USB-serial. A Keyspan works just fine with my VX and Windows 7 64-bit machine.

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Moromete
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/15/12

Loc: Romania
Re: Celestron VX mount [Re: rmollise]
      #6006379 - 08/04/13 06:15 PM

What does the "integer gear ratios" mean in case of the AVX and what are the advantages/disadvantages
of this approach?

How is AVX GOTO pointing accuracy compared to CG5-GT? Are there any significant improvements at
high powers or is the same thing?


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mclewis1
Thread Killer
*****

Reged: 02/25/06

Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: Celestron VX mount [Re: Eric38]
      #6006697 - 08/04/13 09:47 PM

Quote:

One of the first things that I noticed with the AVX I just got is that even with the optional GPS running you still have to manually select your correct time zone and daylight savings time. Kind of an oversight I suspect.



Eric, It's not an oversight. Pure GPS does not know anything about time zones or DST, those are strictly political conventions. Commercial GPS products contain additional data base info and circuitry to handle those items. The GPS receivers on scopes/mounts are very simple and basic (read cheap). Would you pay more for a scope/mount so you don't have to occasionally input those two values?

Quote:

I would really hope that the telescope manufacturers will get on board with a straight USB interface.



It certainly would be nice but unfortunately USB is not just a simple one for one replacement for RS232 serial. RS232 has some physical advantages, it's cheaper to implement and offers longer cables lengths. Hardware aside there are also many more support issues with USB, it simply costs a manufacturer substantially more to support a native USB interface (tons more compatibility testing, plus the inevitable post sales questions). Like my first response, are you willing to spend what would probably be an additional 100-200 dollars for the scope/mount instead of $20 for a USB-serial adapter?

Or to turn it around ... if you were running a telescope company would you increase your manufacturing and support costs for an item that likely doesn't prevent anyone from buying your product?

It's good to question the status quo but remember that there are often many issues that we as end users don't see or consider.


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