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mikey cee
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Reged: 01/18/07

Loc: bellevue ne.
Red Hot New Concept OTA's
      #5616003 - 01/10/13 06:23 PM

Take a gander over here http://www.istar-optical.com/ Now that's what I call thinking out of the box! No wonder I got such a great lens from these folks. Remember a good quality product is no accident. Thanks guys! Mike

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Jerry Hyman
sage


Reged: 03/29/07

Loc: Mesa, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: mikey cee]
      #5616052 - 01/10/13 06:53 PM

WOW!

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ppfilbert
super member


Reged: 02/03/11

Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Jerry Hyman]
      #5616063 - 01/10/13 06:56 PM

hmmmmm. very cool, but i know for a fact im gonna FLIP out when im looking down my scope and see a 6000 mile long mosquito sitting on the Moon!!!

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Dragonwatcher
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Reged: 01/21/08

Loc: Coupeville, WA
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ppfilbert]
      #5616140 - 01/10/13 07:42 PM

Hmmmm.... Any postings on timeline & pricing? Would these be apo or achro I wonder? Very intriguing.

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zjc26138
Loved By All
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Reged: 02/24/05

Loc: Mingo Junction, Ohio
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Dragonwatcher]
      #5616154 - 01/10/13 07:46 PM

Looks pretty cool. I'm interested and look forward to further developments and pricing.

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Jon Isaacs
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Dragonwatcher]
      #5616169 - 01/10/13 07:54 PM

Quote:

Hmmmm.... Any postings on timeline & pricing? Would these be apo or achro I wonder? Very intriguing.




The lens says it's an achromat.

As an owner of both Truss Dobs as well as tube Newtonians, it is worth mentioning that in the Newtonian world, there is concern with open scopes that the observers body heat warms the air and causes issues if it passes through the optical path... Tube scopes are desirable for planetary observation...

Jon


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Scott in NC
Mad Hatter
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Reged: 03/05/05

Loc: NC
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5616180 - 01/10/13 08:01 PM

Looks like it needs a light shroud.

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bluestar
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Reged: 11/06/05

Loc: Maryland Eastern Shore
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Scott in NC]
      #5616193 - 01/10/13 08:10 PM

How many baffles come with this?

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Dragonwatcher
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Reged: 01/21/08

Loc: Coupeville, WA
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Dragonwatcher]
      #5616220 - 01/10/13 08:31 PM

Never mind - the pricing of this achro is on the web site. Found it.

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Istytray
journeyman


Reged: 01/01/13

Loc: Where the snow falls
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Scott in NC]
      #5616223 - 01/10/13 08:32 PM

Fascinating! Wonder if it'll actually be a "GAME CHANGER"....

Quote:

Looks like it needs a light shroud.




The description says they are developing one. They also seem to downplay its importance.


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Scott in NC
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Scott in NC]
      #5616229 - 01/10/13 08:40 PM

Quote:

Looks like it needs a light shroud.




Never mind. I read the accompanying text, and it looks like IStar *will* be producing a light shroud for this. It's really quite an interesting concept--not at all necessary for small refractors, but it may increase the marketability of 6" and larger refractors, making scopes of this size much more practical from a mounting standpoint. I surely hope IStar succeeds with this new project!


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t.r.
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Istytray]
      #5616236 - 01/10/13 08:41 PM



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Jon Isaacs
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Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Scott in NC]
      #5616271 - 01/10/13 09:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Looks like it needs a light shroud.




Never mind. I read the accompanying text, and it looks like IStar *will* be producing a light shroud for this. It's really quite an interesting concept--not at all necessary for small refractors, but it may increase the marketability of 6" and larger refractors, making scopes of this size much more practical from a mounting standpoint. I surely hope IStar succeeds with this new project!




As an engineer, one is always skeptical. I have to wonder about this design. Tubes are generally the stiffest, lightest solution in situations where bending is important. But they must have done their homework... the beams must be hollow.

If this is successful, it looks like the refractor world will have entered into the reflector world of trusses, collimation and thermal plumes, shrouds that pass body heat and distorted images...

Jon


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Gastrol
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/04/11

Loc: los angeles
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5616275 - 01/10/13 09:11 PM

Why not just put that in a solid tube?

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Scott in NC
Mad Hatter
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Reged: 03/05/05

Loc: NC
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Gastrol]
      #5616282 - 01/10/13 09:15 PM

Quote:

Why not just put that in a solid tube?




I think their goal was to make the OTA as light as possible.


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
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Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5616643 - 01/11/13 03:44 AM

Hi John,
this is why we combined it with fully enclosed tube at the focuser end. This tube is equipped with its own baffle set and acts as a baffle by itself. This is not just a simple open frame structure scope.
cheers,
Ales


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StarStuff1
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ISTAR Optical]
      #5616665 - 01/11/13 04:08 AM

Very innovative design, Ales. The MAIN reason I sold off my 6-in f/8 achro a couple of years ago was difficulty in handling the weight of that beast...both the mount and me.

But this has gotten me to thinking. I have an 102mm f/6 that is robustly built and gets little use. Some inexpensive arrow shafts, plywood plates, and black craft foam for a "tube"...


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johnnyha
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: StarStuff1]
      #5616700 - 01/11/13 05:07 AM

Very cool. I would be more comfortable with a dewshield in front of the objective as well as, say, a short extension behind the objective at least 4-6" long, to protect the glass.

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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
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Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5616726 - 01/11/13 06:24 AM

Hello John,
yes, the beams are hollow of course. You are correct on the circular shape being very strong but you loose this advantage quickly with added length especially without having any cross-sections. The 3 hollow beam structure is CNC machined, each hole is perfectly lined up and with 3 cross-sections and two end sections hard-bolted to the bars the overall construction is substantially stronger compared to a single tube. Also the thermal stability is superior, owners of long refractors can tell you more about this.. Dont forget, this is still a refractor with a enclosed tube at the focuser end and with number of baffles in it. The light can not entre the focuser direct. All things mentioned has been taken in consideration. Definitely this TCR truss/enclosed tube refractor does not need collimation more frequently than any classic refractor on the market. Actually it is engineered for stability so once you get the collimation right, you wont have to touch it again for years if you handle the scope with care.
best regards,
Ales


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Dragonwatcher]
      #5616727 - 01/11/13 06:29 AM

First one of these new TCR style scopes (Truss Construction Refractor)is already listed with price. More will follow. We will replace/add this style to all scopes of 150mm and larger and F/8 and slower. In addition to this scope we have 6 more on our CAD design screens. All will be introduced one by one during 2013.
regards,
Ales


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5616730 - 01/11/13 06:36 AM

This TCR style (Truss & rear tube construction) will be introduced for all Achromats, all R30/ R35 doublet OTAs and all large APOs or semi APO triplets. The main goal was to reduce weight to a bare minimum and we achieved an average reduction of fully loaded OTA weight by over 50 percent. So these scopes weight less than half compared to their fully enclosed tube brothers. So there is no need to get into larger, more expensive mount. It is better to get a super lighweight scope instead.

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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Istytray]
      #5616732 - 01/11/13 06:45 AM

Term "Game Changer" is direcly related to superior weight reduction while keeping all important aspects of an enclosed tube construction intact. We achived over 50 percent weight reduction compared to fully enclosed tube models while keeping the resolution at similar levels. So if an 8" refractor can weight same as 6" model only yesterday I think the term was well chosen. Thank you all for your comments.
cheers,
Ales


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
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Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Scott in NC]
      #5616735 - 01/11/13 06:54 AM

It is planned for those who may possibly need it, as per info we already released on this product. Same with a special dew shield.
best regards,
Ales


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: bluestar]
      #5616741 - 01/11/13 07:01 AM

Total of 4 baffle sections in this particular model. They are properly positioned as per ray trace computer simulation. Again, another similarity with truss scope reflector (SC, Newt...) ends right here. Even though this model look extremely simple and straight forward we put a lots of thoughts into it's development and we evaluated every single aspect of its theoretical performance. Now after first two tests under stars Im happy to say that we were right.
cheers,
Ales


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
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Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Istytray]
      #5616746 - 01/11/13 07:09 AM

We have 3 finished and other 8 models in different aperture sizes and F-ratios now in prototype development stages. All will be introduced this year.

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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Gastrol]
      #5616749 - 01/11/13 07:11 AM

Because than the entire quest for a super low weight refractor would be over with

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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Scott in NC]
      #5616753 - 01/11/13 07:14 AM

Dear Scott,
you are absolutely right. This concept is not needed for small sized refractor. This is why we will offer these only for the following apertures: 150, 160, 180, 204, 220, 250mm. Bigger you go, more benefit there is to gain, especially if you combine with R30 SLIM lenses (weight cut down by 40 percent on average)
cheers,
Ales


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
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Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: StarStuff1]
      #5616759 - 01/11/13 07:21 AM

Yeap.. go for it.. but use light materials, try to stay away from plywood. You can get these aluminum or alloy bars pretty much anywhere (but make sure to get those with strict tolerances intended for further CNC work.. stay away from those made for garden fence poles..) and we dont mind ATM-ers to use this idea in parts or whole. I just "cant wait" to hear all the bad and ugly things about this fancy scope design style... something one man can not avoid...

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meade4ever
sage
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Reged: 08/23/07

Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ISTAR Optical]
      #5616767 - 01/11/13 07:30 AM

Ales I can only be admirative by all the new concepts ISTAR offer to our hobby and especially custom work, that I hope will continue.
Even if I prefer the look of traditional refractors, the weight reduction is a great advantage.

How about the prices vs original models ?


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Thomas Karpf
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/09/09

Loc: Newington, CT
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ISTAR Optical]
      #5616784 - 01/11/13 07:50 AM

Quote:

First one of these new TCR style scopes (Truss Construction Refractor)is already listed with price.




Perhaps I'm being blind. On which page is the price?

Nevermind. It's on http://istar-optical.com/istar_009.htm . $2177 for 6" f/12 achromat, about $300 more than the 'tubed' version.


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csrlice12
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Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ISTAR Optical]
      #5616866 - 01/11/13 09:02 AM

Wouldn't there be thermals from your body when viewing near the zeinith????

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t.r.
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5616882 - 01/11/13 09:13 AM

As Jon pointed out, I'm sure you would have to deal with all the same things truss reflector owners deal with, but on a much smaller scale of course. At first glance, it seems to delete the positive attributes a refractor is known for. Still, the design is interesting. I have wanted a 180 F/12 for some time, but with better correction than a standard C-F. Maybe this is worth a try...I certainly like the idea of less weight and mass in a scope of this size!

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csrlice12
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: t.r.]
      #5617035 - 01/11/13 10:57 AM

I imagine cool down would be a "breeze" though.....

Nice looking scope, may change the definition of a 1000mm f10 to a "GrabnGo".....


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hottr6
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: mikey cee]
      #5617048 - 01/11/13 11:06 AM

I'm impressed that iStar use magnesium alloy for the tube and baffles. However, if ever you have seen magnesium burn, the OP subject title of "red hot" may not be the best choice of words.

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bcuddihee
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ISTAR Optical]
      #5617064 - 01/11/13 11:13 AM

Ales, as an industrial designer I can truly say that you have created a functional and elegant design here. Out of the box thinking combined with a true aesthetic sense have really opened up Pandora's box here...in a very good way. Wishing you all the success you deserve.
Brendan


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Pinbout
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Reged: 02/22/10

Loc: nj
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ISTAR Optical]
      #5617091 - 01/11/13 11:31 AM

Quote:

All will be introduced one by one during 2013.
regards,
Ales




will you bring any to NEAF?


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: bcuddihee]
      #5617092 - 01/11/13 11:31 AM

Hello Brendan,
thank you so much for your wonderful comment. I truly appreciate that from someone like yourself.
respectfully,
Ales


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Pinbout]
      #5617101 - 01/11/13 11:37 AM

Hello Danny,
we will definitely bring these to NEAF.. and hopefuly more than just one. By that time we should have the 180 and 204mm versions available too to demonstrate that even 8" refractor no longer requres an expensive mount and can be handled by one man. For sure we will have at least this 6" F12 there...
best regards,
Ales


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: meade4ever]
      #5617124 - 01/11/13 11:46 AM

Meade4Ever,
at this moment we can offer these with some 15 percent increase over the standard models. But we are working hard on narrowing this gap as much as we possibly can. I want anyone who can afford the traditional design scope to be able to afford this TCR low weight variation.
Cheers,
Ales


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5617139 - 01/11/13 11:54 AM

Yes, the cooling time takes nearly one third of the original time required. We tested two lenses so far. From 1,5 hours on classic enclosed tube to 40 minutes here. Temperature difference was 15° Celsius. This is one of those very important aspects and improvements. And if you blow a fan at the lens you can have it done in 15 minutes... nice. We found out that you should optimally use the forced air flow like 10 minutes front and 5 minutes rear. But it does make sense... . If you blow air from only one direction you need additional time to have the temperature evenly distributed throughout the lens set.

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dscarpa
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Loc: San Diego Ca.
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: mikey cee]
      #5617164 - 01/11/13 12:14 PM

Impressive! Will you be using this design with any of your APOs? I'm definitely interested in the 140 F-7.5 APO you're working on. Do you know when the 140 F-7.5 will be available? I'm fine with a regular OTA on that scope but a lighter one would be a plus. David

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tim53
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: dscarpa]
      #5617196 - 01/11/13 12:31 PM

Keith Lawson won a Merit Award at RTMC in 2010 for an open tube refractor he'd built. He was camped across the road from me, so I had a chance to look through it a number of times. A very nice performer, actually. Very good contrast.




-Tim.


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tim53
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Reged: 12/17/04

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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: tim53]
      #5617202 - 01/11/13 12:34 PM

As for thermal plumes off the observer?

Perhaps installing a fan would help?



-Tim.


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Pinbout
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: tim53]
      #5617227 - 01/11/13 12:48 PM

Quote:

Keith Lawson won a Merit Award at RTMC in 2010 for an open tube refractor he'd built.




Cool pics Tim, thanks.


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: tim53]
      #5617483 - 01/11/13 03:44 PM

Dear Tim,
Im aware of this rail scope. This consruction is known and Keith made a superb job putting this thingn together. He used Istar 204 F8,8 achromatic doublet if I remember correctly. Thank you so much for sharing!!
cheers,
Ales


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: tim53]
      #5617496 - 01/11/13 03:54 PM

Gotta love some of these... right? Personally I suggest four independent fans with controlled variable speeds and a 4-stage Marlow Ind. thermo-electric (TE) cooling device attached directly to the operators' forhead.

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johnnyha
Postmaster
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Reged: 11/12/06

Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ISTAR Optical]
      #5617560 - 01/11/13 04:29 PM

Quote:

Dear Tim,
Im aware of this rail scope. This consruction is known and Keith made a superb job putting this thingn together. He used Istar 204 F8,8 achromatic doublet if I remember correctly. Thank you so much for sharing!!
cheers,
Ales



Ales that is what I was talking about earlier, I like Keith's short dewshield/back extension offering protection for the lens as well as shielding stray light.


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mikey cee
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Reged: 01/18/07

Loc: bellevue ne.
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5617673 - 01/11/13 05:56 PM

Yes I agree with that short dewshield and rear extension. I'd get awfully up tight with a big lens exposed both front and rear. Couldn't really enjoy or relax without that provision at a starparty with the public involved. Nervous like a cat on a hot tin roof! Mike

Edited by mikey cee (01/11/13 05:58 PM)


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ISTAR Optical
Vendor- IStar Optical
*****

Reged: 08/09/09

Loc: Page, Arizona
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5618513 - 01/12/13 06:41 AM

Hello Johnny,
this is exactly what we have planned for the dew shield construction. We are looking into two versions so give us some tim to experiment and decide. The bottom line is that if anyone buys one of these TCR scopes, they will be given a choice of a dew shield later on this year, I suspect second half of 2013, possibly sooner.


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Astrojensen
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Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ISTAR Optical]
      #5618575 - 01/12/13 08:16 AM

I think the dew problems is not something a rolled up newspaper cannot solve... I often make makeshift dewcaps out of a newspaper, which I roll around the dewcap or end of the scope, then hold in place with tape or rubber bands. Works extremely well and is very inexpensive. When it gets too ugly, I just throw it away and make a new one.

I once tried to make a prettier dewcap from some soft, thin bubble foam plastic. I thought it was going to be perfect, as it was longer than the newspaper tube, but imagine my surprise, when the scope often dewed up, when it never did so with the old newspaper tube!

So, bad news (on print) can be good for something allright!


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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Astrojensen
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5618588 - 01/12/13 08:26 AM

BTW, I am impressed with the new OTAs. It's about time someone tried to do something serious to make a lightweight big achro. I've thought a great deal about making one with a traditional truss tube, with a centerpiece that attached to the mount and two ends with the objective and focuser that each attached to the centerpiece with truss tubes. The bad thing about this is that the truss angles become very narrow, if the centerpiece is not quite a bit larger than the objective, in which case the center of gravity sits quite far from the fulcrum at the RA axis, meaning you need a lot of counterweights or a very long counterweight shaft.

I also thought about making a single-pole refractor, much like the one Keith Lawson has made, but I didn't follow up on it in detail and thought that it would have problems if I wanted to attach a shroud, which is almost a neccesity in my climate, or so I thought at the time. Your solution is more elegant and also more solid.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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jgraham
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5618616 - 01/12/13 08:49 AM

How does the weight compare with a carbon fiber tube?

Just wonder'n


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Astrojensen
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: jgraham]
      #5618630 - 01/12/13 09:06 AM

I think the weight might be comparable, but carbon fiber tubes are quite expensive in the sizes we are talking about here. They are also not collapsible, unlike the new ISTAR tubes.

Looking at prices for newtonian carbon tubes at Teleskop-Service, I'd estimate that a raw carbon fiber tube for a 6" f/12 newtonian might be around $1000 and that one for a 8" f/12 could be $2k. I could be wrong, though.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


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opticsguy
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5618738 - 01/12/13 10:18 AM

First; very impressive scope, nice design and I certainly want one.

Second; Not at all an original design when you look at the single element loooong focus refractors way back in the late 1600's (Hevelius' 140 foot telescope).

Thirdly, I would be very concerned with dew on the lens, a definate problem in my area.

Fourth; I want one. :-)


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ISTAR Optical
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: opticsguy]
      #5619113 - 01/12/13 01:53 PM

Dew shields are being designed for these scopes and they will become available this year. We have two versions to test before we decide.
cheers,
Ales


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mikey cee
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ISTAR Optical]
      #5619517 - 01/12/13 05:43 PM

I see this thread was been removed from "Refractors" forum. Well too bad but take a peek here folks! http://www.istar-optical.comGallery/Perseus/_TCR_150-12/index.html I believe anyone going to this effort in redesigning refractors to this extent is truly more interested in the hobby than in making a buck! I mean there must be less innovative and easier ways to make money off of amateurs in this hobby. When Istar got my attention as a customer they truly did make a believer out of me and I'm one picky SOB that is hard to impress! Mike

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ATM57
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: tim53]
      #5619574 - 01/12/13 06:14 PM

Hey, thanks for the honorable mention. Cool. Yes, this was an Istar 8" F/8.8 lens. Super performer. I never had any issues with lens cooling, body heat problems or contrast issues. Properly designed/placed baffles will work quite well despite how the scope looks from the outside. An eyeball look through the focuser reveals only the light from the lens. If interested I can show a photo shot through the focuser with the scope aimed at a bright wall with the scope outside in the sunlight and the only thing you can see is the light from the lens. This scope was a lot of fun to build and use.

The new Istar design should work quite well. It looks like someone spent the time to "get it right". Good design, nice machine work, well baffled and light weight. If I had one I would put it through it's paces and give a detailed report (hint, hint)

Edited by ATM57 (01/12/13 08:14 PM)


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ISTAR Optical
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ATM57]
      #5620187 - 01/13/13 05:01 AM

Keith, is that you? Great talking to you after so many years (3 I think since you were one of our very first customers for larger lens). Anyhow, I looked at many tubeless refractor designs including yours. Me and our master optician spent countless hours discussing different options but the bottom line is this. If you put baffles in places exactly as you explained (what counts is what you see at the focuser end.. no matter what anyone else will argue with(. This is the reason I posted photo from the focuser so people can see that all you see is the lens up front.. everything else is filtered off by the cross-sections/baffles. What ever remaining stray light must enter the remaining 30 percent (overall scope length) which is a fully enclosed tube with its own set of baffles.
The bottom line is, when we tested the TCR tubeless sceletal scope against fully enclosed old fashioned scope and found no difference, I can say that Im happy and I achieved all what I hoped for. From incredible over 50 percent OTA weight reduction (the main objective)to unchanged resolution. Recently we even round out that now the ballance point is shifted heavliy towards the FOCUSER, not towards the lens as one would expect.... read more at our web site (not sure if I can openly advertize our web site here on CN Vendor forum...) but Im sure people will find it.
cheers,
Ales


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ATM57
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ISTAR Optical]
      #5620975 - 01/13/13 02:49 PM

Hi Ales,

It is interesting to read the comments of those who have never used a refractor designed this way. Their lack of experience causes them to question the validity of such a design. As an "end user" of an open refractor I know that, if well designed, the scope works quite welll. I can say just by looking at your design that you guys have done your homework. Great looking scope! When you take these scopes out to astronomy gatherings it will shut the mouths of the naysayers. There are a lot of advantages to the open design. Keep up the innovative work. It's nice to see something new and affordable in the refractor realm


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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ISTAR Optical]
      #5621032 - 01/13/13 03:11 PM

Ales,

What iStar optics is this new design going to be available with?

-Bill


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ISTAR Optical
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: BillP]
      #5622273 - 01/14/13 08:44 AM

Hello Bill,

we will build these TCR truss/semi tubed on any scope larger than 140mm and with F/8 and higher. To give you a few examples: Asteria TCR 180 F8 R35 SLIM, Asteria TCR 180 F12 R35 SLIM, Phoenix TCR 204-8, Asteria 204 F8 R35 SLIM, Asteria 204 F12 R35 SLIM and so on up to 250 F11 R35 model which has been ordered by one customer recently.
cheers,
Ales


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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ATM57]
      #5622295 - 01/14/13 09:08 AM

You are absolutely correct. Thanks God that some of the guys with more open minds do realize these advantages even without looking thru one themselves. Only basic knowledge of optics or even just common sense is what one neeeds to make a sound decision. We will definitely show these in public and I cant wait for first customers so they can do this job for us.. on much bigger scale. I do not argue with any hard core disbelievers, I simply let the course of time and hands on experience to prove them wrong. I know one thing, this is definitely a step back to 1600 century design style.. People including most manufacturers will simply repeat one design over and over. The idea behind is: if it works why fix it.. well, I can not agree. Things can usually work better even if they "work well" now.. Franky, I would not go public with some weird design if I was not more than sure that it works at least as well as closed tube design... I know that I would be eaten alive if I did... have a great day, stay in touch. I wont be able to get on line much during my upcoming trip abroad. Due back in my office by end of February 2013,
cheers,
Ales


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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: BillP]
      #5626074 - 01/16/13 12:01 PM

Hello Bill,
we will produce these for CLASSIC ACHROMATS?
150 F12 (now produced)
150 F15
204 F/8,8
and for R30 and R35 special doublets
150 F12 R35 SLIM
180 F8 R30
180 F8 R35 SLIM
180 F12 R35 SLIM
204 F8 R35 SLIM
204 F12 R35 SLIM
220 F9 R35 SLIM (F-ratio MAY change on this one)
250 F11 R35

possibly APO Triplet 160 F12
that would be it for some time, but enough for anyone to choose the right one I believe,
cheers,
Ales


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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: johnnyha]
      #5626081 - 01/16/13 12:04 PM

Johny,
TCR scopes will have both front and rear dew shield style attachments, we have the design layed out, now sourcing for the right materials. So people can choose what works best for their own environment
cheers,
Ales


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zjc26138
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ISTAR Optical]
      #5626202 - 01/16/13 01:26 PM

I want the TCR 180 F/8 R30. Gotta start saving now.

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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5627421 - 01/17/13 04:10 AM

We are designing these as we speak and lenses are also being done. We will have few sets of the original R30 doublets (about 40 percent heavier lens) but to off-set this, we will offer the finished OTAs in TCR construction with an appropriate discount. The new R35 SLIM doublets are now produced in following configurations
150 F5 R35 SLIM
150 F8 R35 SLIM
150 F12 R35 SLIM
180 F8 R35 SLIM
180 F12 R35 SLIM
204 F8 R35 SLIM
204 F12 R35 SLIM

we have an inquiry from one observatory/astronomy club for 230 F20 R35 SLIM, if there is anyone else interested, let me know. Producing two sets will be considerably less expensive than one single lens,
best regards,
Ales

Edited by ISTAR Optical (01/17/13 04:12 AM)


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ATM57
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5628194 - 01/17/13 02:29 PM

Yeah, I'm looking at the 204 F/8.8. R30 or R35 SLIM would be a plus but funding would dictate the choice. They say dreams can come true

Edited by ATM57 (01/17/13 02:31 PM)


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swisswalter
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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: ATM57]
      #5628464 - 01/17/13 04:56 PM

That would be my choice too

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Re: Red Hot New Concept OTA's new [Re: BillP]
      #5646174 - 01/27/13 02:34 PM

Hello Bill,
here is list of scopes to be produced in TCR (combination of truss with baffles and enclosed tube with baffles at the focuser end) and all these will also be made with our all new and completely redesigned R35 SLIM (thin, low weight, better working version of 3 year old R30 doublets)

150mm F5
150mm F8
150mm F12
180mm F8
180mm F12
204mm F6 classic achromat
204 F8
204 F9 classic achromat
204 F12
220 F11
220 F15 classic achromat
250 F11

thank you again for asking and stay in touch,
cheers,
Ales


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