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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5611440 - 01/08/13 07:25 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The female-female adapter you improvised may not come handy for everyone, so does that mean those folks are out of luck on such FTF2015BCR adaptation? Is there an actual female-female adapter that could be used instead of creating one?



I don't know if TNR has a female-female adaptor. It was too easy to build so I did it. But this is not all you gonna need; you also need an adaptor to fit the dovetail of the FTF2015 focuser which on the outside should have the same thread as TAR0130.

I will share the drawings with Wayne from Starlight Instruments so that they can build this adaptor as an accessory for their focusers.

Quote:

I can see 2” FTF2015BCR adaptation might be prohibitive for most, notwithstanding any vignetting it may cause on full frame sensors.




I am not sure I understand you here correctly. Why would it be prohibitive for most ?

Quote:

I see 3" FT focuser doesn't require TAR0130 spacer, correct? Does it adapt without needed any additional pieces? If yes, this might be the simplest adaptation (i.e., no improvising) if I understand correctly? Does 3” focuser directly thread-on/attach to FSQ-106EDXIII?




No, on the contrary, this is the most complicated adaptation. You will need to remove the tak focuser assy and build an adaptor to fit the FT focuser to the rear of the FSQ's tube. Unless I have a really heavy imaging system, I am not planning to go into that. But for those who need something better than Tak focuser, at least there is a solution.




Thanks Mr. Bilgebay for all the feedback. I like the engineering side of the focuser adaptations but I also feel some of us just might want to use things out-of-the-box at times after spending hefty sum$ and that’s a disadvantage.

About 2” FTF2015BCR focuser, dovetail adaptor part for FTF2015 sounds complicated. Also what I was referring to is that, as you have said, there is inherent vignetting problem with that setup, especially for full frame sensors, even if Starlight Instruments were to build the accessory for it.

Let me also clarify what I meant about the back-focus; there are two aspects I am talking about, having more “IN” focus when using standard 2” DSLR adapter setup, and having more “OUT” focus when using magnifiers of ‘2" TeleVue 2.0x Powermate’ type. Basically a large focuser displacement is required to fit both scenarios.

About 3” FTF3025B-A focuser, it seems to fit the requirements we talk about (no vignetting, having extensive IN and OUT travel), it also seems more invasive and almost prohibitive, as you mention, plus I am afraid any flexing it may introduce due to its own+equipment weight.

Last but not least, I do feel Tak will be best served by putting Feather Touch focusers by default on these scopes. Keep your comments/insights coming. Regards


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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: D. Perry]
      #5611468 - 01/08/13 08:03 AM

Quote:

Here's an image of mine in action (or, getting ready for action):

http://www.californiastars.net/img/equipment/observatory-ap900-fsq.jpg





Daniel, wanted to share great setup of yours and to ask if you could provide the mounting plate and rings specifics/brand/part #s. Thanks in advance. Regards


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bilgebay
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: mmalik]
      #5613706 - 01/09/13 01:10 PM

Quote:

Last but not least, I do feel Tak will be best served by putting Feather Touch focusers by default on these scopes




Ditto!


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Denimsky
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5613764 - 01/09/13 01:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Last but not least, I do feel Tak will be best served by putting Feather Touch focusers by default on these scopes




Ditto!




I'm sure they will sell much more scopes by just doing that!


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tomcody
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: Denimsky]
      #5614368 - 01/09/13 07:41 PM

You know that on the Yahoo Narrowband imaging group, this problem was discussed and the best solution was to have Precise parts machine a custom tube and replace the entire focuser with a machined tube and an FLI Atlas focuser. Problem solved for any weight of camera.
Rex


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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: mmalik]
      #5614951 - 01/10/13 06:55 AM

I had contacted Art (TNR) and he asked me to send him a list of questions that he could answer; I have compiled a list of issues/questions. Feel free to add to what I have put together which is sum of all what I feel has been discussed in this and the other... thread. Thx

This thread being heavily focused on FSQ-106EDXIII, most questions are regarding the same:

Flexure:
A well-known and most common problem reported on FSQ-106EDXIII is focuser flexure; please read the threads for details. ED has gone through ‘ED (Old)’, ‘Q’ and ‘X’ models but focuser flexure problem remains to be resolved; some users have suggested the very reason FSQ-106ED has gone through three versions already speaks for the awareness/acknowledgment of the problem by Takahashi. It is true FSQ-106EDXIII focuser may not flex under nominal load but it HAS flexure for practical applications regardless as most have stated in this and other other... thread. Some folks are re-engineering the stock focuser, some have suggested less invasive measures like re-tensioning, re-greasing the focuser, etc. So most important question would be when the stock focuser on FSQ-106EDXIII is really going to be fixed/re-designed for all practical load scenarios?

Defocusing:
Although most understand that some defocusing will happen with temperature changes, there seems to be a consistent problem with FSQ-106EDXIII focuser getting defocussed; some have suggested this being the result of different density materials (thick cast focuser housing/thin focuser tube) affecting clearances, hence the design; others have provided tips how to manually compensate for defocusing, etc. When is FSQ-106EDXIII defocussing under temperature changes going to be addressed?

Collimation:
Poor collimation on some of the FSQ-106EDXIII have been reported. Most of us wouldn’t have expected this problem on such a small/solid looking scope; personally I would rather like NOT even to check the collimation on a scope of this caliber and value, and have the peace of mind that it came collimated. Please comment on what’s being done to fix this problem once for all?

Focuser Adaption:
To overcome stock focuser issues, some users have tried Feather Touch adaption which is neither straightforward nor anomaly free (vignetting being the one, 2” FTF2015BCR focuser requiring complex ring and dovetail adaption with the existing stock focuser, 3” FTF3025B-A focuser adaption, to completely replace stock focuser, being the most complex, etc.), while some are suggesting replacing stock focuser with machined custom tube, etc. Is any re-design effort being made to have FSQ-106EDXIII either adaptable (out-of-box) to specific/certified Feather Touch focuser/s and/or have needed parts designed/available to make such adaptions possible?

Feather Touch ‘out-of-the-box’:
Given the challenges, are there any plans to forgo FSQ-106EDXIII stock focuser altogether in favor of Feather Touch?

Where to buy:
Is TNR best place to buy FSQ-106EDXIII given issues listed above and having the ease of any warranty work that users may need performed on these scopes?

Quality Control:
Given the sporadic nature of some of these issues, is QC being missed on some of the scopes?

Warranty Transferability:
Warranty is non-transferable, and it is a grave concern for most; a can you address that?

TNR Clout:
How much clout TNR has to have above issues corrected, some of which require major design changes? In other words, is TNR just a distributor or much more than that; what are the chances these issues make it to Takahashi Japan in case TNR is not in such an advantageous position?

Regards


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tomcody
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: mmalik]
      #5615557 - 01/10/13 01:37 PM

Have you considered buying a Televue NP-101is?
Given your concerns stated above, you might like it better.


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D. Perry
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: tomcody]
      #5615928 - 01/10/13 05:34 PM

Hi mmalik,

Sorry for the delay in responding. Here are some answers to your questions...

- Yes, feel free to embed an image of my scope/mount setup.

- I use SoCalAstro tube rings and dovetail plates. You can find everything at http://www.socalastro.com/Products.htm

- The OAG is the Astrodon MMOAG (Monster Manual Off-Axis Guider). I'm using an SBIG ST-i autoguider and an FLI ML11002-C imaging camera.

- All of this info is on the Equipment page of my site:
http://www.californiastars.net/equipment.php

If you're planning to eventually move to a 44mm diagonal chip then, yes, the FSQ is the best option for a readily available 4" refractor (in my opinion). I honestly don't think you're going to see any issues with the scope and any DSLR.

Keep in mind that all of the issues you're worrying about and that have been discussed here, have been discussed by about 5-6 people in this thread. That represents a tiny fraction of the number of FSQs out there. There are plenty of people imaging with 16803 cameras with 5-pound bodies and huge filter wheels, and they're getting excellent images. There have been a couple people who went to extremes to replace the entire rear cell of the scope but it's not something the vast majority of people are going to need to worry about.

Every scope will have some kind of issue or something about it you might not like. Given that the FSQ already has excellent, corrected optics with an imaging circle of 88mm, and a solid focuser with 10:1 focusing and a focus lock, it's a better starting point than almost all other scopes out there in its class. The TeleVue NP scopes and the discontinued Pentax SDP telescopes are pretty much the only direct competitors. Some of the other manufacturers make excellent scopes but almost none of them are as fully corrected over as wide a field as the FSQ. And while many of them have reducers and field flatteners available, most will still exhibit noticeable levels of vignetting, field curvature, coma, and even CA, on a 35mm format or larger chip. A noteable exception here is Astro-Physics, as they tailor their reducers/flatteners to their scopes and have excellent large format options (get ready to wait 8 years for a new scope though).

Again, all of this is just my 2 cents. I'm partial to Tak, obviously, and have not been disappointed with the 3 I've owned (FSQ-106ED-XIII, FS-60CB, and TOA-130F).

Here are some images from my FSQ:

http://www.californiastars.net/gallery-ngc7000-ic5070-ml11k-fsq.php

http://www.californiastars.net/gallery-ic1318-ngc6888-ml11k-fsq.php

http://www.californiastars.net/gallery-m008-m020-ml11k-fsq.php

Best,


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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging [Re: tomcody]
      #5616037 - 01/10/13 06:43 PM

Quote:

Have you considered buying a TeleVue NP-101is?




@Jon said it right in another thread...; and I agree.

Plus I have been doing narrow-angle AP and would like to try wide-angle which is not possible/of quality with anything but FSQ-106EDXIII.


Note: Few samples of my narrow-angle AP:
NGC 7331 - Spiral Galaxy In Pegasus...
IC 434, Barnard 33 - Horsehead Nebula...
Horsehead Nebula [Up Close]...
NGC 7023 - Iris Nebula [Up Close]...


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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: D. Perry]
      #5622246 - 01/14/13 08:27 AM

Quote:

If you're planning to eventually move to a 44mm diagonal chip then, yes, the FSQ is the best option for a readily available 4" refractor (in my opinion). I honestly don't think you're going to see any issues with the scope and any DSLR.

Keep in mind that all of the issues you're worrying about and that have been discussed here, have been discussed by about 5-6 people in this thread. That represents a tiny fraction of the number of FSQs out there. There are plenty of people imaging with 16803 cameras with 5-pound bodies and huge filter wheels, and they're getting excellent images. There have been a couple people who went to extremes to replace the entire rear cell of the scope but it's not something the vast majority of people are going to need to worry about.




Thanks Perry for your feedback and all the details, very much appreciated. Like your astro-photos.

Perry, no, not worrying, just trying to understand and possibly help address long standing focuser and flexure issues which I do understand are NOT much of a concern with the basic DSLR setup but could be a problem with heavier pay loads.

Everyone, changing gears a bit; I have been doing DSLR imaging and may possibly dabble in CCD imaging. I would like to know about your experience in mounting SBIG CCD STT-8300M Camera + FW8-STT Self-Guiding Filter Wheel specifically to FSQ-106EDXIII? Any pics you could post of your ‘FSQ-106EDXIII + STT-8300M + FW8-STT Self-Guiding Filter Wheel’ setup will be greatly appreciated.

(Note: This is different from older STF-8300M CCD camera and FW5/FW8 filter wheels)


On a side note, in an effort to learn and explore more about CCD imaging, I have created a post in CCD forum on Understanding STF-8300M & STT-8300M...; if you would like to contribute to CCD discussion then no need to respond here; use the link... instead. Regards


Note: My DSLR work here...; some DSLR processing instructions here....


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Starhawk
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: mmalik]
      #5622542 - 01/14/13 11:52 AM

I looked at the FSQ-106EDXIII at NEAF and one thing I noticed was how short the focuser travel is. I have gotten used to the ~5" of travel on the AP130EDFGT with a 2" diagonal comfortably fitting in the back of the focuser and lots of in-focus waiting to be used. For photography, I have been needing to add spacers to get to focus, though. With that said, the FT focuser just doesn't complain under any circumstances. I've wondered why a FT complete focuser (replace the 4") doesn't exist for the FSQ-106 series. Very impressive scopes, but the focuser is a bit odd.

Sedat- the Spock on the cabinets is really cool.

-Rich

Edited by Starhawk (01/14/13 11:53 AM)


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tomcody
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5622578 - 01/14/13 12:17 PM

Ft focusers and adapters are available for all the FSQ106 scopes. Check the Starlight Instruments web site.
Rex


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mintakaX
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: tomcody]
      #5622606 - 01/14/13 12:40 PM

I just purchased a 106EDXIII model and hope to piggyback it atop a newly purchased TOA-150 using my 10 year old Paramount ME. I plan on doing NB imaging with the 106 using a QSI683 WSG-8 camera. I'm planning on using Parallax rings and Losmandy plates for the connections. I've had the 106 for a week but am waiting for one last adapter piece (blasted thing!) to hook up the camera. The TPA-150 should be here this week.

Any advice or cautions on this piggyback setup ?

I've moved from a dark site to a LP site with poor seeing and I'll be replacing my Meade 16" LX220R OTA with the TOA-150
Dan


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bilgebay
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5622942 - 01/14/13 03:58 PM

Quote:



Sedat- the Spock on the cabinets is really cool.

-Rich




Finally, someone noticed the poor creature, after 1000 or so views

Thank you Rich


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bilgebay
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: tomcody]
      #5622970 - 01/14/13 04:10 PM

Quote:

Ft focusers and adapters are available for all the FSQ106 scopes. Check the Starlight Instruments web site.
Rex




Yes, they do. But the cost is over a grand! If had a heavy image train and a full frame sensor, probably I would bite the bullet and replace the entire focuser. However, the question is why! Why would I throw away the stock focuser for which I paid so much money and why would Takahashi originally NOT supply a focuser, eg FT, to match the optics of this little gem.

Cheers


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mmalik
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5623352 - 01/14/13 08:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ft focusers and adapters are available for all the FSQ106 scopes. Check the Starlight Instruments web site.
Rex




Yes, they do. But the cost is over a grand! If had a heavy image train and a full frame sensor, probably I would bite the bullet and replace the entire focuser. However, the question is why! Why would I throw away the stock focuser for which I paid so much money and why would Takahashi originally NOT supply a focuser, e.g., FT, to match the optics of this little gem.

Cheers




Thanks Mr. Bilgebay, that’s the crux of the matter with FSQ-106EDXIII. I am still waiting to hear from Mr. Art; will ping him. Thx


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tomcody
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging [Re: bilgebay]
      #5623449 - 01/14/13 09:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Ft focusers and adapters are available for all the FSQ106 scopes. Check the Starlight Instruments web site.
Rex




Yes, they do. But the cost is over a grand! If had a heavy image train and a full frame sensor, probably I would bite the bullet and replace the entire focuser. However, the question is why! Why would I throw away the stock focuser for which I paid so much money and why would Takahashi originally NOT supply a focuser, eg FT, to match the optics of this little gem.

Cheers

SEDAT



Please note that I was answering StarHawk's question regarding the availability of a FT replacement focuser. I was not advocating anyone to change their focuser, I like Takahashi focusers!
Rex


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bilgebay
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging [Re: tomcody]
      #5623857 - 01/15/13 06:00 AM

And I was not reacting to you but Takahashi Hope I haven't upset you.

Regards

Sedat


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tomcody
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging [Re: bilgebay]
      #5624109 - 01/15/13 10:05 AM

Not upset at all, just wanted everyone to be clear on my posting.
Thanks,
Rex


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tomcody
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Re: FSQ-106EDXIII F5 Astrograph for Imaging [Re: mintakaX]
      #5624997 - 01/15/13 07:17 PM

Quote:

I just purchased a 106EDXIII model and hope to piggyback it atop a newly purchased TOA-150 using my 10 year old Paramount ME. I plan on doing NB imaging with the 106 using a QSI683 WSG-8 camera. I'm planning on using Parallax rings and Losmandy plates for the connections. I've had the 106 for a week but am waiting for one last adapter piece (blasted thing!) to hook up the camera. The TPA-150 should be here this week.

Any advice or cautions on this piggyback setup ?

I've moved from a dark site to a LP site with poor seeing and I'll be replacing my Meade 16" LX220R OTA with the TOA-150
Dan



Just one suggestion, you may want to consider a FLI Atlas focuser. The advantages are;
1. you can lock your FSQ focuser and avoid any play
2. The Atlas has the finest step resolution available so you can really dial in the small critical focus zone of the FSQ.
3. The Atlas is only about 2 lbs heavier than the robofocus.
4. The Atlas's very fine resolution, allows you to run real time temp compensation during an exposure.
5. The Atlas/camera combo should be able to be moved easily between the FSQ and the TOA 150, so you can image with both.
Just some things to consider.
Rex


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