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Gleason
journeyman


Reged: 01/03/13

Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: orion69]
      #5609159 - 01/06/13 08:09 PM

Sorry about that. The hosting service has totally locked out the image url.

j


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Bert
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/17/06

Loc: Australia
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: orion69]
      #5609301 - 01/06/13 09:51 PM Attachment (41 downloads)

This is last nights test images.


LMC 3nm NII, 5x32 minutes exposure, PL16803 at -30C, all fits images are upsized before stacking by a factor of X1.5. 11MB

http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.com.au/2013_01/LMC_NII_M.jpg

NGC3576 and surrounds, 6x32 minutes. All other conditions same as LMC image. 10MB

http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.com.au/2013_01/NGC3576_M.jpg

Bolting down the tail of the dovetail worked!

Bert

Edited by Bert (01/06/13 09:57 PM)


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Bert
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/17/06

Loc: Australia
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: Bert]
      #5609307 - 01/06/13 09:56 PM Attachment (49 downloads)

NGC3576

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orion69
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/09/10

Loc: Croatia
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: Bert]
      #5609669 - 01/07/13 06:22 AM

If "real clear" aperture is around 170mm does that mean that system is really F/3.52, not F/3?

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Harel_Boren
Vendor-The Boren-Simon PowerNewt Astrograph


Reged: 03/15/09

Loc: Israel
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: orion69]
      #5611227 - 01/08/13 12:12 AM

No Kenz,
F isn't defined by real clear etc.
You can read more about the implication of obstruction (also on contrast) here:
http://www.telescope-optics.net/obstruction.htm
Regarding definition accomplished - you can check out the "leaping puma" feature in the rosettte I've posted above (and in another post on this forum). That feature is 12 min. across and comes through very sharply (not through artificial sharpening) through what seems like making the best of the 1.85 pixel per arcsec that this system (the Veloce and the SBIG 8300M) can produce.
Cheers,
Harel


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mikeschuster
super member


Reged: 08/25/11

Loc: SF Bay area
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: Harel_Boren]
      #5611251 - 01/08/13 12:30 AM

Kenz,
One way to think about the aperture obstruction: The obstruction blocks photons, so photons per pixel per unit time goes down. To compensate expose longer by the obstruction factor, and you will end up capturing the same number of photons and hence get the same SNR as an unobstructed equivalent. OR you can buy a camera with a higher QE by the same factor and accomplish the equivalent. So obstruction does impact the "speed" of the optic. The RH200 is in fact slower than an unobstructed f3 setup with the same aperture.
Mike

Edited by mikeschuster (01/08/13 12:34 AM)


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Harel_Boren
Vendor-The Boren-Simon PowerNewt Astrograph


Reged: 03/15/09

Loc: Israel
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: mikeschuster]
      #5611794 - 01/08/13 11:39 AM

Quote:

Kenz,
One way to think about the aperture obstruction: The obstruction blocks photons, so photons per pixel per unit time goes down. To compensate expose longer by the obstruction factor, and you will end up capturing the same number of photons and hence get the same SNR as an unobstructed equivalent. OR you can buy a camera with a higher QE by the same factor and accomplish the equivalent. So obstruction does impact the "speed" of the optic. The RH200 is in fact slower than an unobstructed f3 setup with the same aperture.
Mike




... But it's faster than any obstructed aperture of a longer f ratio, eg f4...
Cheers,
Harel


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Bert
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/17/06

Loc: Australia
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: orion69]
      #5612184 - 01/08/13 03:34 PM

Knez I prefer to think that the RH200 has a central obstruction the size of an FSQ106 with nearly three times the area (x2.63) in the annulus of the RH200 of a single FSQ106 collecting photons to my sensor.

If a 'FSQ170' was possible I would get one.

This three hour image 10MB from above

http://d1355990.i49.quadrahosting.com.au/2013_01/NGC3576_M.jpg

would have taken close to eight hours with an FSQ106. Longer to get to the same signal to noise ratio.

My main aim is to make mosaics of very dim objects and it is very useful to get more than one panel per imaging night.

The other consideration is that a full image data set can be collected while the object is effectively at or close to the zenith. With the PMX mount able to go two hours past the zenith without doing a meridian flip and the speed of the RH200 very deep data can be collected in one night, all within two hours of the zenith.

Bert

Edited by Bert (01/08/13 03:48 PM)


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Harel_Boren
Vendor-The Boren-Simon PowerNewt Astrograph


Reged: 03/15/09

Loc: Israel
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: Bert]
      #5613072 - 01/09/13 01:55 AM

Hi Bert,

Why would you decide to purposefully lose resolution by going down from the Veloce's D=200mm (or the Powernewt's D-200mm) to the (imaginary) FSQ170 D=170mm?

A scope is not only its ability to serve as a light-bucket. It comprises a set of attributes which delivers a result.

Cheers,
Harel


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orion69
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/09/10

Loc: Croatia
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: Gleason]
      #5613766 - 01/09/13 01:48 PM

Quote:

Several months ago I took delivery of the Officina Stellare RH200 F/3. I've not given up on the fabulous FSQ, as this is mostly more about my interest in very fast imaging systems going back to my long exposure Schmidt camera days. After a multitude of fine adjusments to collimation and tip tilt, I got this official first light last night before the latest storm.

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/4026/rh200horseheadbetatest.jpg


12 x 600s accumulated exposure time
6nm HA filter bandpass.
SBIG STL 11000
San Jose, California

This image was shot within San Jose city limits among about a million streetlights. The camera is a first gen STL 11000 and so is the 6nm AD Ha filter. Sky transparency was very hazy. Meaning, that much better contrast and detail are possbile from a dark site, and certanly a 3nm high transmission bandpass would isolate finer structures in the ionization curtain behind the Horsehead.

The telescope mechanics benefit greatly with the incorporation of a tip/tilt back plate, as f/3 is unforgiving of any array tilt. Let's just say a 10th of a turn of the tip/tilt screw will make a difference.

Cheers,

jg




Gleason, I just managed to download image and I must say I'm very impressed! You say this was shot under light of many streetlights? Do you plan to shoot some more images in near future, possibly some dimmer objects?

Well, your image certainly shows RH200 in completely different light...
I compared your image with another of the same object, nearly same total time, but shot with NP127is and although other image is excellent, your is in every aspect much better!

I'll show your picture on croatian forum to discuss it, if it's alright with you.


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orion69
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/09/10

Loc: Croatia
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light [Re: orion69]
      #5618465 - 01/12/13 05:09 AM

Bert and Harel, I just noticed, is there a reason why you don't use OAG?

Edited by orion69 (01/12/13 05:22 AM)


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Harel_Boren
Vendor-The Boren-Simon PowerNewt Astrograph


Reged: 03/15/09

Loc: Israel
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: orion69]
      #5623105 - 01/14/13 05:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Several months ago I took delivery of the Officina Stellare RH200 F/3. I've not given up on the fabulous FSQ, as this is mostly more about my interest in very fast imaging systems going back to my long exposure Schmidt camera days. After a multitude of fine adjusments to collimation and tip tilt, I got this official first light last night before the latest storm.

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/4026/rh200horseheadbetatest.jpg


12 x 600s accumulated exposure time
6nm HA filter bandpass.
SBIG STL 11000
San Jose, California

This image was shot within San Jose city limits among about a million streetlights. The camera is a first gen STL 11000 and so is the 6nm AD Ha filter. Sky transparency was very hazy. Meaning, that much better contrast and detail are possbile from a dark site, and certanly a 3nm high transmission bandpass would isolate finer structures in the ionization curtain behind the Horsehead.

The telescope mechanics benefit greatly with the incorporation of a tip/tilt back plate, as f/3 is unforgiving of any array tilt. Let's just say a 10th of a turn of the tip/tilt screw will make a difference.

Cheers,

jg




Gleason, I just managed to download image and I must say I'm very impressed! You say this was shot under light of many streetlights? Do you plan to shoot some more images in near future, possibly some dimmer objects?

Well, your image certainly shows RH200 in completely different light...
I compared your image with another of the same object, nearly same total time, but shot with NP127is and although other image is excellent, your is in every aspect much better!

I'll show your picture on croatian forum to discuss it, if it's alright with you.




I can't Agee more.
This is a very impressive result.

Cheers,
harel


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Gleason
journeyman


Reged: 01/03/13

Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: Harel_Boren]
      #5628500 - 01/17/13 05:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Several months ago I took delivery of the Officina Stellare RH200 F/3. I've not given up on the fabulous FSQ, as this is mostly more about my interest in very fast imaging systems going back to my long exposure Schmidt camera days. After a multitude of fine adjusments to collimation and tip tilt, I got this official first light last night before the latest storm.

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/4026/rh200horseheadbetatest.jpg


12 x 600s accumulated exposure time
6nm HA filter bandpass.
SBIG STL 11000
San Jose, California

This image was shot within San Jose city limits among about a million streetlights. The camera is a first gen STL 11000 and so is the 6nm AD Ha filter. Sky transparency was very hazy. Meaning, that much better contrast and detail are possbile from a dark site, and certanly a 3nm high transmission bandpass would isolate finer structures in the ionization curtain behind the Horsehead.

The telescope mechanics benefit greatly with the incorporation of a tip/tilt back plate, as f/3 is unforgiving of any array tilt. Let's just say a 10th of a turn of the tip/tilt screw will make a difference.

Cheers,

jg




Gleason, I just managed to download image and I must say I'm very impressed! You say this was shot under light of many streetlights? Do you plan to shoot some more images in near future, possibly some dimmer objects?

Well, your image certainly shows RH200 in completely different light...
I compared your image with another of the same object, nearly same total time, but shot with NP127is and although other image is excellent, your is in every aspect much better!

I'll show your picture on croatian forum to discuss it, if it's alright with you.




I can't Agee more.
This is a very impressive result.

Cheers,
harel





Hey Gents,

I've been out of pocket a bit, and in fact could not easily find my way back to this page.

Another Look at RH-200 Results

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've added a considerable amount of data to the RH-200 view of the Horsehead. This is a 100% resolution crop from the STL1100, representing about 1/4 of of the entire field - I like this composition but also good to show full res capability of this little instrument at 9um pixels.

Data:
Officina Stellare RH200 f/3 Riccardi-Honders
SBIG STL11000
6nm Ha filter
35 x 600s total exposure time.
Non linear curves and levels only in PS
Star Spike sofware was used on the higher res image.
Location: San Jose, California

Comments:

Future narrowband work can benefit from longer exposures. 20 minute subs from a rural location would be quite spectacular for signal gathering. I really need more urban light pollution blocking. 3nm might be best here but I worry about bandwidth shift at f/3. I am using a first gen AstroDon 6nm filter in the old STL camera for now.

I am finding this instrument to be quite stable with temp changes. So far, it has been a set and forget instrument during image runs.

No differential flexure in a test 40 minute sub from the city using the STI guider and Officina Stellare tube rings.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6813/rh200horseheadnewcroppe.jpg

And here is a 50% resolution of the entire field. Curves adjusted a bit to show the extent of the nebulae

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8884/rh200horseheadnew50perc.jpg

Feel free to do whatever you want with these. The potential of the RH200 is there with many short exposures from the city.


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orion69
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/09/10

Loc: Croatia
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: Gleason]
      #5628646 - 01/17/13 06:41 PM

Gleason, thanks for new images, looks like I found my next astrograph...

Just wondering what would be results with Atik 460 mono, camera I intent to use with RH200, couldn't find that combination on the net.

You say you focus one time and it's good all night? If that's the case there is no reason to buy focuser motor.

Please when you shoot some dimmer objects feel free to let us know.


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Gleason
journeyman


Reged: 01/03/13

Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: orion69]
      #5629087 - 01/17/13 11:06 PM

Quote:

Gleason, thanks for new images, looks like I found my next astrograph...

Just wondering what would be results with Atik 460 mono, camera I intent to use with RH200, couldn't find that combination on the net.

You say you focus one time and it's good all night? If that's the case there is no reason to buy focuser motor.

Please when you shoot some dimmer objects feel free to let us know.




I would get the focus motor which allows precision adjustments that are not possible by hand. Within a few degrees the scope has been stable. I would also go for the accessory tube rings instead of the single arm dovetail support bar. I'll look to some very faint Ha objects with this scope in the near future.

Here is a 24 x 600s Rosetta taken with the same camera on the RH200

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5781/rh200rosetta.jpg


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orion69
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/09/10

Loc: Croatia
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: Gleason]
      #5629277 - 01/18/13 02:29 AM

Gleason,do you use OAG?

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orion69
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/09/10

Loc: Croatia
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: orion69]
      #5629322 - 01/18/13 03:45 AM

I just checked, focuser motor with all adapters is 750 Euro.
Maybe I'll just buy full configuration after all.


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Gleason
journeyman


Reged: 01/03/13

Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: orion69]
      #5629834 - 01/18/13 12:07 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

No OAG. Standard arrangement is the STI guider and lens assembly mounted to the top plate. There may not be enough back focus for an OAG with this instrument

Edited by Gleason (01/18/13 12:08 PM)


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orion69
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 05/09/10

Loc: Croatia
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: Gleason]
      #5630191 - 01/18/13 04:13 PM

If I can't use OAG then there is no way I would buy this instrument.
Luckily, TS Germany says backfocus is 70mm so plenty of space for OAG, filter wheel and camera...

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4615_Officina-Stel...


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Harel_Boren
Vendor-The Boren-Simon PowerNewt Astrograph


Reged: 03/15/09

Loc: Israel
Re: Officina Stellare Veloce RH 200 First Light new [Re: orion69]
      #5630533 - 01/18/13 08:20 PM Attachment (10 downloads)

Quote:

If I can't use OAG then there is no way I would buy this instrument.
Luckily, TS Germany says backfocus is 70mm so plenty of space for OAG, filter wheel and camera...

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4615_Officina-Stel...




In fact, there's hardly any space to fit in OAG after the full imaging train is in place. We tried to use the TS OAG with it, and there was simply no place (which I could find) to fit in the guide camera (though the OAG took excatly the optimal space).

However, why is OAG so important? We have easily gotten to 10 min. guided frames with this instrument, using a setup which was built in 45 min. out in the desert, on a NEQ6... Actually I am sorry not to have gone up to 15 min. frames, as there was nothing really limiting me. Guiding was perfect.

You can view some images of that setup here:
http://www.pbase.com/boren/image/148323004/large
and here:
http://www.pbase.com/boren/image/148323006
and a non-processed stack of 22 images of 10 min. each here (no processing except for DDP):
http://www.pbase.com/boren/image/148357999/original

I will post a full report on that 2nd light tomorrow. Just to let you know that the scope sustained a 14 degrees centigrade drop with no change in focus (i.e. 2 micron accuracy of CFZ achieved and maintained, through a 14 degrees drop).

Cheers,
Harel


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