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BrooksObs
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/08/12

Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: krp]
      #5921919 - 06/15/13 09:56 AM

Quote:

Here's a new article about ISON: Sky and Telescope If it's anything like the pictures I've seen of Lovejoy than I'm really looking forward to it.




Just appreciate that the images of C/Lovejoy we all ooohed and aaahed over were the result of extended exposures and don't necessarily reflect what a visual observer could see at the same time. In fact, when Lovejoy's tail was reaching around 35 and 45-degrees on forced images virtually nothing at all had been visible to the naked eye for quite some time.

BrooksObs


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krp
Vendor. DarkSiteFinder.com


Reged: 11/10/10

Loc: Central Illinois
Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: BrooksObs]
      #5929499 - 06/19/13 03:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Here's a new article about ISON: Sky and Telescope If it's anything like the pictures I've seen of Lovejoy than I'm really looking forward to it.




Just appreciate that the images of C/Lovejoy we all ooohed and aaahed over were the result of extended exposures and don't necessarily reflect what a visual observer could see at the same time. In fact, when Lovejoy's tail was reaching around 35 and 45-degrees on forced images virtually nothing at all had been visible to the naked eye for quite some time.

BrooksObs



I realize that, I'm hoping to get some long exposure shots of the comet myself.
It just occurred to me that the best time to view the comet (December 10-14) coincides with the Geminid meteor shower on the 13 and 14th. Both of them should be visible in the pre-dawn sky. The waxing gibbous moon will be up most of the night but after it sets there will be 1-2 hours of darkness. That's something I don't want to miss, I might have to head south if the comet lives up to expectations.

Edited by krp (06/19/13 03:26 PM)


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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland
Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: krp]
      #5974372 - 07/16/13 03:05 PM

NASA just released a timeline on Comet ISON that includes which missions will be observing the comet along with a couple of key dates for it.

So far:
Deep Impact SWIFT
Spitzer
Swift
Hubble

Up next:
BRRISON
Curiosity
Opportunity
Hubble again
MESSENGER
FORTIS
Stereo-A
Stereo-B
SOHO
SDO

http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/timeline-of-comet-ison-s-dangerous-journey/


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Tonk
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: zeldaboy101]
      #5975676 - 07/17/13 10:05 AM

Well its bound to fizzle out now that lot is looking - would put anyone off

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John_G
sage


Reged: 01/18/10

Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: Tonk]
      #5976604 - 07/17/13 06:41 PM Attachment (102 downloads)

PDF for ISON Jan/14 attached. 15x70s.

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BSJ
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 12/22/08

Loc: Grand Isle, VT
Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: John_G]
      #5997987 - 07/30/13 08:53 AM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2381271/Has-comet-century-fizz...

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BrooksObs
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/08/12

Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: BSJ]
      #5998313 - 07/30/13 12:15 PM

It would be so much better for all concerned if only the "media" would limit itself to just reporting on political slop and TV's "reality" shows. The media - with the assistance of a few "spokesman scientists" - have managed to spin the ISON prognostications to so many extremes since the comet's discovery that anyone in the general public must by now regard all astronomers as idiots and I would not blame them.

As far as I am concerned, the topsy-turvy ISON story has grown to become worse than the Kohoutek flap of 1973 ever was. And now we are seeing conclusions being drawn and presented as new infomation when, in fact, there has been absolutely no new data taken on the comet's development in 4-6 weeks! This is science? I'm almost ashamed.

BrooksObs

Edited by BrooksObs (07/30/13 12:41 PM)


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Tonk
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: BrooksObs]
      #6003129 - 08/02/13 12:24 PM

Calm down John This is the UK's Daily Mail which is well known for publishing hyperbole and fiction and dressing it up as fact. Brits are largely not fooled by such antics (other than the Daily Mail's loyal following - a certain gullible type!). I'd be far more concerned if such wild claims of large tailed super bright comets turned up in the Independent.

However most of the info in the article appears reasonable - its just the headline that grates as it clearly just a attention grabber by quoting the hyperbole aspect


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Octans
member


Reged: 08/13/09

Loc: Santa Barbara, CA, USA
Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: Tonk]
      #6004235 - 08/03/13 01:17 AM

Quote:


However most of the info in the article appears reasonable - its just the headline that grates as it clearly just a attention grabber by quoting the hyperbole aspect




That reminds me of one of the worst offenders -- weather.com. One time, it featured an article on the comet just like any other of the hundreds you see out there...except on their front page, they linked it with a title something like "Comet Headed STRAIGHT For Earth" with a picture of some massive asteroid impacting the planet. The article itself was reasonable (although I don't think they wrote it).


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Alvan Clark
sage


Reged: 03/13/10

Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: Octans]
      #6004757 - 08/03/13 12:31 PM

Wouldn't sungrazers be the hardest to predict? It seems the comet could be anything from the comet of the century to completely vaporize and never be seen again.

I remember many years ago Bortle was quoted in the Boston Globe as saying that Comet Hyakutake would be the one to see (over Hale-Bopp). I think he got that one right.


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brianb11213
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Reged: 02/25/09

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Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: Alvan Clark]
      #6004807 - 08/03/13 01:02 PM

Quote:

Wouldn't sungrazers be the hardest to predict? It seems the comet could be anything from the comet of the century to completely vaporize and never be seen again.



They're actually rather easy to predict: just predict that they'll fizzle and you'll almost always be right.

The hard ones to predict seem to be the short period comets with multiple returns which have relatively large perihelion distances. Halley (1/P) was about 2 mags fainter than predicted at its 1986 return; OTOH Holmes (17/P) overperformed by at least 10 mags at its 2007 return. And don't forget Schwassmann-Wachmann (29/P) which has a near circulr orbit with a perihelion outside Jupiter's orbit yet is pretty unpredictable, with flare-ups of several magnitudes at irregular intervals.

Quote:

I remember many years ago Bortle was quoted in the Boston Globe as saying that Comet Hyakutake would be the one to see (over Hale-Bopp). I think he got that one right.



Yes, Hyakutake was a spectacular sight - but only if you had a good dark sky in the few days when it was close to Earth.


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BrooksObs
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/08/12

Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: brianb11213]
      #6004835 - 08/03/13 01:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Wouldn't sungrazers be the hardest to predict? It seems the comet could be anything from the comet of the century to completely vaporize and never be seen again.



They're actually rather easy to predict: just predict that they'll fizzle and you'll almost always be right.

The hard ones to predict seem to be the short period comets with multiple returns which have relatively large perihelion distances. Halley (1/P) was about 2 mags fainter than predicted at its 1986 return; OTOH Holmes (17/P) overperformed by at least 10 mags at its 2007 return. And don't forget Schwassmann-Wachmann (29/P) which has a near circulr orbit with a perihelion outside Jupiter's orbit yet is pretty unpredictable, with flare-ups of several magnitudes at irregular intervals.

Quote:

I remember many years ago Bortle was quoted in the Boston Globe as saying that Comet Hyakutake would be the one to see (over Hale-Bopp). I think he got that one right.



Yes, Hyakutake was a spectacular sight - but only if you had a good dark sky in the few days when it was close to Earth.




Whoa there!

When intrinsically brighter than magnitude +7.0 true Kreutz sungrazing comets carry a virtual guarantee of being spectacular. They are perhaps the easiest of all to predict. Only the related tiny cometary shards seen by the SOHO, et al., satellites behave erratically.

On the other hand, other small perihelion distance comets (they are not rightly to be considered as sungrazers), like ISON, PanSTARRS, and McNaught, are shots in the dark when predicting their post-T brightness.

As for P/Halley during its 1986 apparition, it followed closely the lightcurve predicted for it that was presented by Bortle and Morris...one based on brightness activity observed during past apparitions. Thus, the comet was just about on the mark in regard to its brightness. It was the tail's poor performance that deviated markedly from early apparitions.

Hyakutake was indeed a dramatically more impressive comet with the unaided eye than Hale-Bopp, albeit not nearly as long lasting.

BrooksObs

Edited by BrooksObs (08/03/13 01:26 PM)


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ericj
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/17/05

Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: BrooksObs]
      #6007483 - 08/05/13 12:01 PM

Hi,

Mars and Comet C/2012 S1 ISON will be within two degrees of each other in the morning sky in September 2013 and within one degree of each other in October 2013.

I was using SkyMap Pro recently to get an idea of how high in the sky Comet C/2012 S1 ISON will be in the fall.

I noted that Mars and Comet C/2012 S1 ISON will be with two degrees of each other in the morning sky in September 2013 and within one degree of each other in October 2013. So using SkyMap Pro I generated sky maps as they may be helpful to observers attempting to locate the comet.

In addition I have included tables listing the phases of the Moon for September and October.

The first map shows the track of Mars and Comet C/2012 S1 ISON from September 15th through October 15th. Both Mars and Comet C/2012 S1 ISON are in the constellation of Cancer in September and are in Leo in October.

On the maps there are track marks for every five days. The track marks on the left are Comet C/2012 S1 ISON while the tracks on the right are Mars. You will note that over time they are getting closer to each other.

The second map below shows the approximate 4 degree field of view through my TMB 105mm with a TMB 40mm 2" Paragon of Mars and Comet C/2012 S1 ISON on September 15th. It indicates that both Mars and the comet should fit into the same field of view.

However at this point it appears that the comet will develop more slowly in the autumn sky than originally thought, and may not reach naked eye visibility until November.

On the other hand if you have access to dark skies and a larger aperture telescope or do astrophotography you may be able to use Mars as a guide to locating the comet.

Here is a link to the sky maps and tables listing the phases of the Moon for September and October:

http://ejamison.net/recent_obs11.html#1

Clear Skies,

Eric Jamison

http://ejamison.net/index.html


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stevecoe
"Astronomical Tourist"
*****

Reged: 04/24/04

Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: ericj]
      #6007666 - 08/05/13 01:42 PM

Eric;

Thank you very much, this looks like an excellent observing opportunity. I plan to try some wide field imaging, maybe 200mm lens, and observing with the 16 inch. Lots to do.

Clear skies to us all;
Steve Coe


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HurricaneWhisper
member


Reged: 07/28/13

Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: stevecoe]
      #6008440 - 08/05/13 09:46 PM

Is there a way to determine the best viewing location in terms of longitude and latitude?

Assuming lower 48 states locales only, nearest I can tell is that you want to be as far south as possible while still being in dark cloudless skies. I believe high elevation is a plus while unobstructed views of the horizion is a must.

I am basing this on the assumption of getting the comet to be as high in the sky as possible.

For me, I believe Big Bend Country in Texas would be the best viewing location due to southern latitude, high elevation, dark skies, lack of humidity, etc.

I also wonder what the best location globally is. Is there an optimum Latitude?

Panstaars was very low on the horizon when we viewed it and was basically chasing the sunset so closely that the dusk washed it out.


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ericj
professor emeritus


Reged: 02/17/05

Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: stevecoe]
      #6008970 - 08/06/13 08:50 AM

Hi Steve,

Your welcome. Yes it does look like it may offer opportunities for both observing and astrophotography.

Best,

Eric


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BrooksObs
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/08/12

Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: HurricaneWhisper]
      #6009201 - 08/06/13 11:18 AM

Quote:

Is there a way to determine the best viewing location in terms of longitude and latitude?






It will all depend on just how the comet performs post-perihelion.

In the first week following its closest approach to the Sun the southern states in the U.S. will be slightly favored. On the otherhand, should a spectacular tail develop in the 10-15 day interval post-T, then those in more mid-northern latitudes would be in the best position for the most impressive views.

ISON's path across the sky after swinging by the Sun (assuming its survival of the encounter) is totally the opposite of what Pans-DUD followed. ISON moves rapidly up out of the morning twilight and moves steadily northward to reveal itself well up in the dark northeastern pre-dawn sky.

BrooksObs

Edited by BrooksObs (08/06/13 11:20 AM)


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: HurricaneWhisper]
      #6010523 - 08/06/13 10:55 PM

Quote:

Is there a way to determine the best viewing location in terms of longitude and latitude?

Assuming lower 48 states locales only, nearest I can tell is that you want to be as far south as possible while still being in dark cloudless skies. I believe high elevation is a plus while unobstructed views of the horizion is a must.

I am basing this on the assumption of getting the comet to be as high in the sky as possible.

For me, I believe Big Bend Country in Texas would be the best viewing location due to southern latitude, high elevation, dark skies, lack of humidity, etc.

I also wonder what the best location globally is. Is there an optimum Latitude?

Panstaars was very low on the horizon when we viewed it and was basically chasing the sunset so closely that the dusk washed it out.




The optimum latitude is that which has the comet standing vertically above the Sun at the moment of observation.

For objects fairly far from the Sun on the sky, this can cause the 'optimum' latitude to even vary somewhat during the night. For comets not angularly far from the Sun, the situation is more straightforward. But the optimum latitude can vary--sometimes surprisingly so--from night to night.

Using planetarium software which plots the comet, and allows to show the Sun when below the horizon, you can explore this on different dates (and times, too) by altering the latitude until the comet is straight above the Sun.


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PhilCo126
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium
Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #6010997 - 08/07/13 08:21 AM

Any idea if NASA or JHU published photos taken by the Far-ultraviolet Off Rowland-Circle for Imaging and Spectroscopy (FORTIS) telescope... if any were taken?

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PhilCo126
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium
Re: C/2012 S1 ISON new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #6012948 - 08/08/13 06:23 AM

Here's the answer thx to Dr McCandliss:
FORTIS is still in the experimental stage and the May 2013 launch went great and acquired an image, but it suffered from a high level of background geocoronal Lyman alpha. FORTIS team is fabricating baffles to eliminate this problem. If we are successful in our ground tests we intend to fly medio November 2013 to collect both images and spectra from comet 2012 S1 ISON in the far-UV.


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