Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Equipment

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | (show all)
Scotty H
super member


Reged: 11/15/10

Loc: Surrey,UK
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: ThreeD]
      #5640759 - 01/24/13 01:59 PM

Still waiting for this to turn back into the Problems at Meade??? thread

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
blueman
Photon Catcher
*****

Reged: 07/20/07

Loc: California
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: ThreeD]
      #5640794 - 01/24/13 02:09 PM

When Meade begins to even come close to AP's proven performance, you might compare them.
But with Meade's past performance, they have a long road ahead of them before they can be compared t the AP mounts.
Blueman


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Glen A W
sage


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: WEST VIRGINIA USA
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: Scotty H]
      #5640803 - 01/24/13 02:12 PM

It's a free country. If you are unhappy, why stop complaining at the customer service desk? When you have a problem with a company, take it to the top. Send the letter right to the CEO. I am not kidding - you will likely get results, especially with a smaller company. I have done so in the past and it works.

Realize that the person running a company is surrounded by people with less responsibility than him or her and oftentimes less ability and drive. The goings-on as seen by the customer are not always apparent and a decent letter can be appreciated more than most would realize. The CEO of the company in question is not a fool and in fact came up through the company over the years. Don't you think he wants real input on the quality of the company's products? Just be reasonable and clear in what you are trying to state when you contact such people. They are too busy and their time is too valuable to waste it. GW

Edited by Glen A W (01/24/13 02:13 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
herrointment
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/12/11

Loc: North of Hwy. 64
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: Glen A W]
      #5640936 - 01/24/13 03:37 PM

I took note of the part of the report mentioning equipment wearing out. I'll take it they aren't talking about a few banders here.

During my employers downward spiral equipment was driven into the ground and operators like myself brought oil from home to keep things moving in a circle. Turned out we were 100 million in debt due to some management overreach involving land purchases. The company was purchased for pennies on the dollar by some private equity firm and my job is as uncertain as the breeze.

If I worked for Meade I'd run to the exits and I wouldn't look back.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: Glen A W]
      #5640955 - 01/24/13 03:48 PM

I see two things that contribute to Meade's problems.

One is what I think of as selling dreams. Many - possibly most - of Meade's marketing hasn't told us anything about the product. It has told me about I will feel when using their equipment. Real information has been totally lacking. No information about fundamental things such as the obstruction size or the weight.

Another has been the aggressive characterisation of any criticism as "Meade bashing". At the level of a forum such as this it may have no effect other than make the forum an unpleasant place to visit but I wonder if the denial that this conveys actually pervades the whole organisation. It could have cut off a critical source of feedback about the product quality and given the people who could have done something an unrealistic impression of the quality of Meade products.

I also think that going for the top end may appear to be profitable but you are dealing with the most perfectionist and demanding of customers. People who on being told they will get "A Hubble in your back yard" will immediately ask "With or without spherical aberration?".

Chris


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: cn register 5]
      #5640962 - 01/24/13 03:54 PM

I also think that going for the top end may appear to be profitable but you are dealing with the most perfectionist "and demanding of customers. People who on being told they will get "A Hubble in your back yard" will immediately ask "With or without spherical aberration?".

Or,
Before or after it had "corrective" lenses installed????


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dpwoos
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/18/06

Loc: United States
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: Glen A W]
      #5641062 - 01/24/13 05:02 PM

Quote:

The CEO of the company in question is not a fool and in fact came up through the company over the years. Don't you think he wants real input on the quality of the company's products?




A fish stinks from the head. A CEO IS a fool, if they delegate the running of customer service to folks who are unable to do it properly, and/or is out of touch with what is going on in other areas.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mark Costello
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/08/05

Loc: Matthews, NC, USA
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: rmollise]
      #5641082 - 01/24/13 05:15 PM

Quote:

I wouldn't say Meade has abandoned the low end at all. Not when you can get a 10-inch truss tube from them for 699. They also have a very reasonably priced SCT in the LX90. If anything, IMHO, their problem is TOO MUCH. They need to concentrate on a few products and do them right.




Concur. For a company really short on capital, Meade seems to really be spread out a lot with a lot of seemingly overlapping telescope lines. They may want to go with the best few lines that really define them and make sure that each rig works right out of the box and is built to last.

For sure I'm one of those 90% to which Starman1 refers, and always will be. I'd just assume that they got the LX80 line working just right so that maybe I could strap a SCT on one side with my 5" achro riding shotgun....


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
RealSorin
super member


Reged: 10/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: Mark Costello]
      #5641123 - 01/24/13 05:37 PM

Quote:


Concur. For a company really short on capital, Meade seems to really be spread out a lot with a lot of seemingly overlapping telescope lines. They may want to go with the best few lines that really define them and make sure that each rig works right out of the box and is built to last.

For sure I'm one of those 90% to which Starman1 refers, and always will be. I'd just assume that they got the LX80 line working just right so that maybe I could strap a SCT on one side with my 5" achro riding shotgun....




Looking at the website yesterday, I agree they have no shortage of scopes and equipment covering a wide range of the market. They might benefit by taking a cue from Apple when Jobs came back in and Apple vastly simplified their product line in a way that customers could understand.

I think one of the barriers to entry in this hobby is trying to figure out what to buy, and then once you have it, how you can do something enjoyable with it so it doesn't just collect dust in the garage. Those are problems that can be addressed by product positioning and marketing.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: blueman]
      #5641166 - 01/24/13 06:03 PM

Quote:

When Meade begins to even come close to AP's proven performance, you might compare them.
But with Meade's past performance, they have a long road ahead of them before they can be compared t the AP mounts.
Blueman




And yet, most amateurs don't need and can't afford AP gear. There is a place for middle of the road Fords and Chevys in addition to BMWs and Mercedes. Meade has sold a lot of EXCELLENT telescopes including the LX200 Classic and much more at prices that me and Joe Spit the Ragman can afford. Most of us don't expect watch-like precision, but are both happy with and producive with what we've got from them when they are on top of their game.

Meade doesn't need to become the next AP or Tak, they just need to slow down and get a robust QA force to work.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
A. Viegas
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/05/12

Loc: New York City/ CT
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: rmollise]
      #5641209 - 01/24/13 06:30 PM

I would echo with what was just said regarding Apple.

Simplify, execute and deliver.

A few entry level a few mid range and a couple top-of-the line. Basic products with all sort of equipment options.

Deliver a sleek and professional looking high quality product that looks cool and exudes complexity and professionalism but is simple to use and operate.

We are in the 21st century guys. Looking through an eyepiece is certainly quaint and can be fun. But heck, if you want to attract today's younger generation you have to be techno-savvy and techno-integrated.

This last point is maybe the most contentious with the old timers here, but i firmly believe as i said before on this thread, that Amateur Astronomy is like Classical Music, it is a past time that is fading away purely from a lack of connection to the times of today. A modern telescope should come fully equipped with wifi compatibility and out of the box image capture that is uber easy and totally idiot proof. You take the scope out of the box. You push a button, it aligns itself and on your wireless device be it an iphone or laptop or just on the little 4" lcd connected to the scope, it gives you all kinds of options of what to look at, or you tell it what you want to see. It makes it easy to share the image on instagram or facebook or email it wherever... simple. All this techno capability maybe adds $100 to the scope. It would fundamentally transform MEADE and give it a chance to become relevant.

Without such a radical overhaul its game over...


Our hobby will continue. Costs may rise slightly, small manufacturers, new DIY'ers with good business sense will come up with new products and we will all still be here in 50 years. The population of Amateur Astronomers will probably not be much bigger than today, but as a proportion of the population it will remain insignificant and tiny. Alas, its a shame... but without any leadership what more should we expect?

Al


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: rmollise]
      #5641229 - 01/24/13 06:41 PM

If you have too many products to inventory them all, but rely on JIT delivery of each after you get the orders, then delivering them fairly quickly is called for.
When you have too many skus to inventory them all AND you don't deliver quickly, then people will stop buying from you.
Then, because sales go down, you start offering the same scopes on your own website, competing with the dealers, you create a disincentive to stock your products.
Then, you cut off (or get cut off from) your biggest supplier and go with another who is not yet ready to deliver, you increase the lead times for most of your affordable products.
And you release products designed to recapitalize your company that have so many problems you have to recall them or delay introducing them until they're re-manufactured.
And you don't introduce products for which there would be demand but instead introduce products for which you have to create demand with expensive advertising.
And....

I could go on and on. Does what I describe look like a recipe for success?
Could it be turned around? Probably. Would it be hard? Yes. And it might require borrowing money it will take a long time to pay back. Then again, are the public investors willing to wait a long time for their money and stockholders willing to forego dividends for a while?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: Starman1]
      #5641258 - 01/24/13 06:58 PM

I would be amazed if Meade has paid out any dividend in the past 10 years.

OTOH their stock price was $0.20 in 2009, pure penny stock territory, and it got back up to $3.5 range before cratering to the current $1.70.

So unless they did a reverse stock split back in 2009, they have been in direr straits stock-wise. They probably had more cash in 2009 though.

I would think at this point any Meade stockholders aren't thinking about dividends.. they are probably wondering how, when, and if, they will get any of their money back.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5641268 - 01/24/13 07:06 PM

A just in email from Meade . Specials include a two inch dielectric diagonal plus a 24mm ultra wide for $159.00 .
Then there's an RGB filter set for $29.95 .
PDG eh ?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rmollise
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/06/07

Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: Starman1]
      #5641276 - 01/24/13 07:08 PM

Quote:


I could go on and on. Does what I describe look like a recipe for success?
Could it be turned around? Probably. Would it be hard? Yes. And it might require borrowing money it will take a long time to pay back. Then again, are the public investors willing to wait a long time for their money and stockholders willing to forego dividends for a while?




I believe it will be turned around. Probably not by the current crew, but so what? The Meade of today doesn't have much relation to the company of John Diebel that some of us remember fondly, as I'v said before. The name has value. Some of the designs and patents have value. I believe a buyer will come calling before all is said and done. What could have allowed the current bunch to turn it around? A runaway success with the LX80: a problem free introuduction, and performance that, while, not competitive with up-scale mounts, made folks turn away from HEQ-5s and CG5s and to the LX80. But that didn't happen. They should have thrown every resource they had into that, and forgot about the 800 for a while. Not enough people are going to be buying a 6 grand mount (if that's what they plan to sell it at now) to make much difference. Lots of 1000 buck mounts (or 800 buck mounts) out the door? That could have helped.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #5641306 - 01/24/13 07:29 PM

Quote:

This last point is maybe the most contentious with the old timers here, but i firmly believe as i said before on this thread, that Amateur Astronomy is like Classical Music, it is a past time that is fading away purely from a lack of connection to the times of today. A modern telescope should come fully equipped with wifi compatibility and out of the box image capture that is uber easy and totally idiot proof. You take the scope out of the box. You push a button, it aligns itself and on your wireless device be it an iphone or laptop or just on the little 4" lcd connected to the scope, it gives you all kinds of options of what to look at, or you tell it what you want to see. It makes it easy to share the image on instagram or facebook or email it wherever... simple. All this techno capability maybe adds $100 to the scope. It would fundamentally transform MEADE and give it a chance to become relevant.




All this for a $100.

From what I see, this is what Meade has been trying to do, to many gizmos and not enough real product.

A good telescope always starts with reasonable optics and a solid, stable, reliable mount. Meade needs to begin here. Gizmos and gadgets are on top of this. When there is only $300 to buy a scope, better to keep things simple.

Is Classical music disappearing? I don't know that much about financial statements but a Google search brought up the financials at Steinway Musicial Instruments Inc. It indicates an annual sales of between $300,000,000 and $400,000,000/year and they are the largest manufacturer of musical instruments in the United States and have been in the business for more than 150 years.

I have two friends who are young professionals, both work for Qualcomm in R&D... Both are interested in amateur astronomy and both have Dobs...

Jon Isaacs


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EJN
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/01/05

Loc: 53 miles west of Venus
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: A. Viegas]
      #5641343 - 01/24/13 07:51 PM

Quote:

A modern telescope should come fully equipped with wifi compatibility and out of the box image capture that is uber easy and totally idiot proof. You take the scope out of the box. You push a button, it aligns itself and on your wireless device be it an iphone or laptop or just on the little 4" lcd connected to the scope, it gives you all kinds of options of what to look at, or you tell it what you want to see.




You left out a few things. It should also include a 500W surround sound system &
large screen HDTV. It should walk the dog, clean the dishes, slice & dice
vegetables, vacuum the floor, and do the laundry.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5641349 - 01/24/13 07:53 PM

but Jon... $300M turnover for Steinway is 2X the total telescope market in the US.

there will always be more people interested in music (classical or otherwise) than telescopes.

A Bosendorfer grand piano? $200,000 each. Makes that Planewave CDK look darn cheap in comparison.

Even an electronic Yamaha Clavinova piano is Gemini G11 G2 price. You can bet they sell a bazillion of those.. since anyone and everyone is interested in one.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Glen A W
sage


Reged: 07/04/08

Loc: WEST VIRGINIA USA
Re: Problems at Meade??? new [Re: EJN]
      #5641351 - 01/24/13 07:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A modern telescope should come fully equipped with wifi compatibility and out of the box image capture that is uber easy and totally idiot proof. You take the scope out of the box. You push a button, it aligns itself and on your wireless device be it an iphone or laptop or just on the little 4" lcd connected to the scope, it gives you all kinds of options of what to look at, or you tell it what you want to see.




You left out a few things. It should also include a 500W surround sound system &
large screen HDTV. It should walk the dog, clean the dishes, slice & dice
vegetables, vacuum the floor, and do the laundry.




Meade is working on it and is going to introduce that model on April 1.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starrancher
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/09/09

Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Problems at Meade??? [Re: EJN]
      #5641406 - 01/24/13 08:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A modern telescope should come fully equipped with wifi compatibility and out of the box image capture that is uber easy and totally idiot proof. You take the scope out of the box. You push a button, it aligns itself and on your wireless device be it an iphone or laptop or just on the little 4" lcd connected to the scope, it gives you all kinds of options of what to look at, or you tell it what you want to see.




You left out a few things. It should also include a 500W surround sound system &
large screen HDTV. It should walk the dog, clean the dishes, slice & dice
vegetables, vacuum the floor, and do the laundry.




This is a problem in that society has already been dummied down so severely that they need now a nanny scope to walk them through ?
Shouldn't we want to have at least a little bit of intellect to operate something anymore ? Everything designed for the dummy all the time just creates laziness which is already an over rewarded trait and contributes to a continual decline of human society unfortunately predominant in the North American continent . Disgraceful if you ask me .


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | (show all)


Extra information
13 registered and 24 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  zjc26138, tecmage, rflinn68 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 11956

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics