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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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denis0007dl
sage
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Reged: 04/17/12

Loc: Croatia
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: t.r.]
      #5630135 - 01/18/13 03:41 PM

...cant"t wait to see test them someone....I have order 6mm for my bino.

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rguasto
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/18/10

Loc: Long Island, NY
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5630163 - 01/18/13 04:01 PM

Just used a 10mm in my PST. First thing I noticed is that the field stop is rough, like "someone forgot to sand the edge smooth after cutting it". The scooped out volcano top is pretty nice for eyelashes as the eye relief is tight. The field of view is not as restrictive as any other ortho I've viewed with. I compared the BCO 10mm (40x) with my 11mm TV Plossl (36x) and I could find very little difference between them visually in the PST. Will be clear tonight so I'll get to use it in my 8" Dynascope on Jupiter.
-Rob


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stevetaylor199
sage
*****

Reged: 09/21/11

Loc: SE Wisconsin
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: t.r.]
      #5630207 - 01/18/13 04:20 PM

I just opened up my shipment of a 6mm and 10mm. I think it's nice that you can essentially choose if you want minimal packaging -- a white box, bubble wrap and ziplock bag -- for $74 each... or if you want the full unboxing experience, you can buy the whole set. (Other posters have mentioned a dealer that sells the glam box separately. Perhaps Manish will consider that.)

As always, Agena shipped each single ortho with a bolt case, which in this case is a 42x80, wide enough to accommodate the winged eyeguards.

I'm especially happy that there are, indeed, no setscrew recesses or tapers.

For Mike, you can find M4 nylon screws right at Agena. They can easily be cut down with a scissors to shorter lengths.


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ThomasM
sage


Reged: 04/19/09

Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: denis0007dl]
      #5630233 - 01/18/13 04:35 PM

Quote:

...cant"t wait to see test them someone....I have order 6mm for my bino.




I did already some tests, just scroll up..

Thomas


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5630351 - 01/18/13 06:18 PM

Quote:

stevetaylor199,

Quote:

But what totally turns me off to it is that it uses a single setscrew in each barrel, with no compression band! That seems especially ironic given that I do not see a setscrew recess in these new eyepieces. (And that's a good thing.)




Yes, compression bands are better. But you'd probably be putting relatively small, light weight eyepieces in the turret. No need for more than one setscrew. In fact, more than one setscrew would probably just get in the way and overly complicate things. Eight setscrews in total? I don't think so. Ideally, the turret would use four twist-locks, but the price would probably increase substantially. It'd be worth it, though.

I don't like setscrew recesses in eyepieces. They get the eyepieces hung up. Yes, it's a good thing that the BCO's don't have them.

Mike




What we call compression rings are really just glorified brass tips on the thumbscrews to protect the finish of the eyepiece. They don't actually compress all the way around the eyepiece like a collet would.
Now a collet-style compression--that would be a good thing with smooth-sided eyepieces. The Baader Click-Lock is a fairly elaborate form of one, but that's the idea.

But lets say the metal setscrew grinds into the barrel of the eyepiece. So?
And it leaves a mark.
So?
Why do people get so upset about that? It has absolutely no effect on performance. It may affect resale value because people want to essentially buy a new eyepiece for a used price. But how much could it lop off the resale of a $75 eyepiece? $10?
I've bought used eyepieces that were scraped and beaten up with irregular anodizing and even a dent or two. And they performed great.
But the lenses were clean and unscratched. That's what counts.

Plus, those brass rings make it more difficult to remove the eyepiece.

If I have any nostalgia at all for the old days (and I have about as little as it's possible to have), it's for smooth-sided eyepiece barrels and brass setscrews tightening against the barrels. Worked great. Left marks. And no one cared.


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Manish
Vendor (AGENA AstroProducts)
*****

Reged: 02/22/05

Loc: Los Angeles Area, CA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: stevetaylor199]
      #5630423 - 01/18/13 07:10 PM

>>a white box, bubble wrap and ziplock bag --
>>Other posters have mentioned a dealer that sells the glam box separately.
>>Perhaps Manish will consider that.)

From what I know, Baader procured only complete eyepiece sets in order to keep prices down. Splitting of sets into individual items - which most people are buying - has to be done either by Baader or by the end dealer. At this time, I believe Baader has only shipped out complete sets which we have to split. What this means is that there will be no consistency in the end packaging between vendors, at least initially. We've added the box/bag/label ourselves. I know some dealers in Europe who've just been shipping all items in plastic bags.

The metal box is indeed available separately and we will add that to our website very soon. However, its utility is limited. The foam insert is pre-cut to accept the turret, barlow, and just the lower eyepiece end caps. The eyepieces themselves come inserted into the turret. So if you buy just the box, most of it is empty space inside and you'd have to figure out your own way of storing eyepieces within it.

Having said that, it is a beautiful box indeed. The outer cardboard box, which we have to discard while splitting the sets, is even prettier!

Regards,
Manish
www.AgenaAstro.com


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John Huntley
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 07/16/06

Loc: South West England
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: rguasto]
      #5630429 - 01/18/13 07:13 PM

Quote:

Just used a 10mm in my PST. First thing I noticed is that the field stop is rough, like "someone forgot to sand the edge smooth after cutting it". The scooped out volcano top is pretty nice for eyelashes as the eye relief is tight. The field of view is not as restrictive as any other ortho I've viewed with. I compared the BCO 10mm (40x) with my 11mm TV Plossl (36x) and I could find very little difference between them visually in the PST. Will be clear tonight so I'll get to use it in my 8" Dynascope on Jupiter.
-Rob




Thats interesting. The field stop on my 10mm BCO is smooth and sharply defined but the 6mm is rather fuzzy.

Some quality control variation here.


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5630550 - 01/18/13 08:31 PM

Don,

Quote:

Now a collet-style compression--that would be a good thing with smooth-sided eyepieces. The Baader Click-Lock is a fairly elaborate form of one, but that's the idea.

But lets say the metal setscrew grinds into the barrel of the eyepiece. So?
And it leaves a mark.
So?
Why do people get so upset about that? It has absolutely no effect on performance. It may affect resale value because people want to essentially buy a new eyepiece for a used price. But how much could it lop off the resale of a $75 eyepiece? $10?
I've bought used eyepieces that were scraped and beaten up with irregular anodizing and even a dent or two. And they performed great.
But the lenses were clean and unscratched. That's what counts.

Plus, those brass rings make it more difficult to remove the eyepiece.

If I have any nostalgia at all for the old days (and I have about as little as it's possible to have), it's for smooth-sided eyepiece barrels and brass setscrews tightening against the barrels. Worked great. Left marks. And no one cared.




The brass rings seem to work OK as long as the eyepieces don't have the dreaded undercuts.

But I'm not so concerned about setscrews marking the eyepiece barrels. That is nothing to me personally, but only a concern that the marks might lower the resale value of the eyepiece - if I ever sell it. Those marks do matter to some observers / collectors.

What I don't like about the setscrews is that they don't seem to provide as secure a hold on an eyepiece as does a good collet (what I was calling a twist-lock). I'd prefer all my focusers and adapters to have collets rather than setscrews or brass rings.

Mike


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5630559 - 01/18/13 08:43 PM

I received my second BCO 10mm and my Q-Turret in the mail today from Agena Astro, a day ahead of schedule. (Thanks Manish!) Everything arrived in great shape. I plan on loading the Q-Turret with a BGO 9, BCO 10, Faworski Ortho 10.5, and TV Plossl 11mm. I'll compare the BCO 10 to these other three eyepieces. They are my 1.25" eyepieces which are closest in focal length to the BCO 10. They'll go in my Z8, an 8" f/6 Dob.

I plan on viewing the Moon and Jupiter, maybe a few other objects, either tonight or tomorrow. I'm just getting over a cold, and it's in the '20's tonight. So if I don't make it out this weekend, be patient. I don't want to end up being a patient!


Mike


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5630566 - 01/18/13 08:49 PM

Both my BCO 10's - the one from EyePiecesEtc and the other from Agena Astro - have clean, sharp field stops. I see no defects in barrel or optics. Looking good!

Mike


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5630568 - 01/18/13 08:51 PM

Quote:

Don,
What I don't like about the setscrews is that they don't seem to provide as secure a hold on an eyepiece as does a good collet (what I was calling a twist-lock). I'd prefer all my focusers and adapters to have collets rather than setscrews or brass rings.

Mike



Agreed. We're on the same wavelength.


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BillP
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 11/26/06

Loc: Vienna, VA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5630599 - 01/18/13 09:11 PM

Quote:

Both my BCO 10's - the one from EyePiecesEtc and the other from Agena Astro - have clean, sharp field stops. I see no defects in barrel or optics. Looking good!

Mike




Same here for me. I gave it a spin tonight in both my XT10 (no Paracorr) and my TSA-102.

In the XT10 I was able to get all eyepieces to come to focus. However, I have the Orion Dual Speed low profile focuser on my XT10. So had to set it all the way down then all eyepieces would come to focus. On the TSA of course no issues with that.

The eyepieces are not parfocal. However, could easily adjust their heights in the Turret so they were all at the same focus.

All my eyepieces, the whole set, all had sharp field stops. The AFOV of the 32 Plossl was smaller than the Orthos, but still provided a nicely larger TFOV compared to the 18 Ortho. All eyepieces were nicely sharp, exception the very edge of the extended fields of the Orthos as expected.

I quite enjoyed turreting between the different eyepieces. Was nice not having to flip EPs in and out. I also felt quite satisfied with the focal length selections also. I was surprised as I didn't think only 4 focal lengths would be enough. Very enjoyable viewing this way.

Of the 4, the 10mm and 18mm were my favorties. ER in the 6mm was short, still no problem, but just no where near as comfortable as the others. So I enjoyed them most. With the 10mm in my TSA I was actually able to see both Trap E and F! I was surprised it being only 82x!! So really nice transmission on these.

Even though not overly cold here, around 35 degrees outside, the turret performed just fine with no binding or roughness while spinning it. So functionally it worked fine in the cold weather (cold for me). Also, initially I thought the tubes on top of the turret were metal, they are not and are some sort of polymer material also as they did not get cold to the touch.

Overall a great first run...and I enjoyed the turret concept for eyepieces. A great little set and look forward to more observing with it. And of course, I always love Abbes


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stevetaylor199
sage
*****

Reged: 09/21/11

Loc: SE Wisconsin
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: BillP]
      #5630645 - 01/18/13 09:56 PM

Thanks for the background on how Baader is providing these sets, Manish. It sounds like the turret is a winner for the price... I'll have to get one in spite of my earlier hesitation.

And Don and Mike, agreed on the collets. (I'm one of those people who's annoyed by marks on an eyepiece barrel. ) Now, a brass setscrew that doesn't leave marks, that sounds fine.


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rathbaster
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/21/08

Loc: East Bridgewater, MA
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5630761 - 01/18/13 10:54 PM

Quote:


If I have any nostalgia at all for the old days (and I have about as little as it's possible to have), it's for smooth-sided eyepiece barrels and brass setscrews tightening against the barrels. Worked great. Left marks. And no one cared.






I agree.

-Joe


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Jim Rosenstock
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 07/14/05

Loc: MD, south of the DC Nebula
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: rathbaster]
      #5630798 - 01/18/13 11:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:


If I have any nostalgia at all for the old days (and I have about as little as it's possible to have), it's for smooth-sided eyepiece barrels and brass setscrews tightening against the barrels. Worked great. Left marks. And no one cared.






I agree.

-Joe




+2

Jim


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astro_baby
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/17/08

Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Jim Rosenstock]
      #5631161 - 01/19/13 08:37 AM

Any opinions on how they compare with the BGOs ?

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Lance1234
sage
*****

Reged: 11/01/12

Loc: SoCal
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Starman1]
      #5631354 - 01/19/13 11:13 AM

Quote:

...If I have any nostalgia at all for the old days (and I have about as little as it's possible to have), it's for smooth-sided eyepiece barrels and brass setscrews tightening against the barrels. Worked great. Left marks. And no one cared.




Don, you're showing your youth...in the old days...we didn't even HAVE set screws.


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression new [Re: Lance1234]
      #5631398 - 01/19/13 11:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

...If I have any nostalgia at all for the old days (and I have about as little as it's possible to have), it's for smooth-sided eyepiece barrels and brass setscrews tightening against the barrels. Worked great. Left marks. And no one cared.




Don, you're showing your youth...in the old days...we didn't even HAVE set screws.



I was referring to the high end stuff at the time. My first scope (an Edmund 4.25" EQ reflector) had a spring steel drawtube in the focuser in which a couple cuts in the steel created pressure tabs that pressed against the eyepiece. You had to press the eyepiece in because the tabs pressed against the eyepiece quite tightly.
I've also seen this technique used on a lot of 19th century brass scopes.
If you were lucky, those tabs had small dimples in them so the scratches in the eyepiece barrels were small lines instead of gouges.
My 1970 Unitron had setscrews, houwever.


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rguasto
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 11/18/10

Loc: Long Island, NY
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression [Re: Starman1]
      #5631449 - 01/19/13 12:06 PM

My main scope still has a 'slip fit' brass insert in the (52 year-old) focuser with slits that apply pressure on the EP barrel.

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Lance1234
sage
*****

Reged: 11/01/12

Loc: SoCal
Re: Baader Classic Ortho - Initial impression [Re: Starman1]
      #5631673 - 01/19/13 02:29 PM

Quote:

I was referring to the high end stuff at the time. My first scope (an Edmund 4.25" EQ reflector) had a spring steel drawtube in the focuser in which a couple cuts in the steel created pressure tabs that pressed against the eyepiece. You had to press the eyepiece in because the tabs pressed against the eyepiece quite tightly.
I've also seen this technique used on a lot of 19th century brass scopes.
If you were lucky, those tabs had small dimples in them so the scratches in the eyepiece barrels were small lines instead of gouges.
My 1970 Unitron had setscrews, houwever.




Interesting, I never ran across the spring steel focusers. My first scope was also an Edmund 4.25", circa mid 1960's; and it just had a smooth draw tube, no spring steel. Must have been an earlier or later version than the one you had (loved that scope!). Also the top of the line Telescopics focuser that I bought when I assembled my 6" in late '60s also just had a smooth draw tube (I actually found a link to their catalog - http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/classics/telescopics/telescopics.pdf).

Changing subjects, it would be interesting to know how many people Edmunds introduced to the hobby.


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