Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
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Oberwerk 12 x 60's
#5630387 - 01/18/13 06:46 PM
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There's a pair for sale on Astromart. I don't know enough about them to buy them.
The 12 x 60 Oberwerks seem like an interesting pair of binoculars.. 5.7 degree TFoV, seem like an overgrown pair of 10 x 50's so they should be hand-holdable but offer more capability. Anybody know if they are true 60mm's or are they stopped down?
Jon
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Jay_Bird
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/04/06
Loc: USA
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: Jon Isaacs]
#5630435 - 01/18/13 07:19 PM
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We have a vendor who can answer for certain
but otherwise the wisdom of Kenny J still holds:
" It's seeming more and more to me like the quickest and easiest way to make an average approximation is that for ALL binoculars that either cost an arm and a leg or were made before 1960 , assume accurate specs. and for those priced suspiciously low , simply measure the diameter of one of the objective lenses and subtract 5% to 10% , depending upon how cheap they were to buy ! :-) Kenny "
...from a long thread about projected flashlight or ruler and loupe aperture tests...
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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
Reged: 06/18/08
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: Jay_Bird]
#5630474 - 01/18/13 07:35 PM
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If of the light-weight series, I should think the chances are high that aperture reduction is occurring. The objective barrels suggest sub-f/4 optics, which the 'symmetrical' Porro I configuration cannot fully field. Especially if the focus lies at least as far behind the rear prism aperture as the apex of the adjacent prism.
I wouldn't be surprised if the working aperture was 50-52mm.
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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: GlennLeDrew]
#5630525 - 01/18/13 08:12 PM
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If of the light-weight series, I should think the chances are high that aperture reduction is occurring. The objective barrels suggest sub-f/4 optics, which the 'symmetrical' Porro I configuration cannot fully field. Especially if the focus lies at least as far behind the rear prism aperture as the apex of the adjacent prism.
I wouldn't be surprised if the working aperture was 50-52mm.
Jay and Glenn:
Thanks for your wisdom... I guess I am the inveterate bargain hunter and when I see something like the Oberwerks, I start dreaming.
Thanks for bringing me back to reality.
Jon
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eklf
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/12/07
Loc: Carrboro, NC
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: Jon Isaacs]
#5630623 - 01/18/13 09:30 PM
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Jon,
Setting aside the reduced aperture issue, the oberwerks 12x60 are a fine pair of binoculars. I had the a garrett version of those, and found them to be a bargain.
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Man in a Tub
Postmaster
Reged: 10/28/08
Loc: Fogpatch, CA
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: eklf]
#5630787 - 01/18/13 11:15 PM
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I have the discontinued Oberwerk 15x60. Same binocular, different eyepieces. IIRC, I measured 52-53mm effective aperture about two years ago. I enjoyed using it for a few months until I got the Garrett Signature 15x70.
Although it might not appeal to bargain hunters, the Nikon 12x50 Action Extreme is a darn good binocular. I used it a few nights ago on my monopod. I was also observing with my Fujinon 10x50 FMT-SX. Some might cringe at this "overstatement", but I'll tell you that Nikon 12x50 AE is a poor man's Fujinon. So, if 12x interests you, check it out.
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: Man in a Tub]
#5631042 - 01/19/13 04:43 AM Attachment (20 downloads)
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In keeping with my simple rule of thumb estimate(SROFE)so incredibly well recollected by Jay Bird above,I would say the effective aperture of this model is about 52mm.
I didn't actually measure it when I had it on loan 7 years ago,as back then it wasn't considered mandatory for all "serious" members to do so.
But I do recall approximating the exit-pupil size very close to 5mm, and remember the model being "surprisingly" easy to hold steady for a 12x glass,so perhaps the magnification is really closer to 11x.
Let's say it's 11x52 then.
I remember the TFOV being a little wider than 5.5 degrees, as stated on the tin(although the one I had didn't arrive in a tin)so it probably has an AFOV of around 64 degrees as opposed to the around 70 degrees one may more naively suppose from studying scribing on the(non-existent)tin.
As indicated in the attached photo,flanked by a 15x70 which in the real world is probably a 14x63 and a 10x50 that is a 9 x 40,it IS quite a bulky bino,but for me that seemed to assist stabilisation when hand-held rather than hinder it.
My summary of it was that all in all,at around $US100 at a time when that equated to around £68 sterling,it represented good value for money.
Kenny
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rushintuit
sage
Reged: 04/01/06
Loc: Farpoint Observatory
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: Man in a Tub]
#5631151 - 01/19/13 08:28 AM
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No cringe here.
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Binojunky
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/25/10
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: rushintuit]
#5631428 - 01/19/13 11:55 AM
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Oberwerk have the 15x60 on sale in their clearance section for $90, just a thought, no idea what the seller is asking for the 12x60, interesting though is that Celestron used to sell the 12x60 at one time under the Skymaster banner, also Stellarvue had the identical bino as the Oberwerk on sale for about $60 earlier in the year.DA.
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planetmalc
super member
Reged: 10/21/09
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: KennyJ]
#5631465 - 01/19/13 12:14 PM
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As indicated in the attached photo,flanked by a 15x70 which in the real world is probably a 14x63 and a 10x50 that is a 9 x 40,it IS quite a bulky bino,but for me that seemed to assist stabilisation when hand-held rather than hinder it.
Kenny
Those steeply-sloping barrels remind me of my Ross 13 x 60 - a real disappointment! 
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ronharper
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/14/06
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: planetmalc]
#5632504 - 01/20/13 12:30 AM
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John,
If I was buying a big and cheap binocular, I would want it to "suffer from reduced aperture". The concurrent increase in focal ratio and reduction in aberrations, elimination of the often flawed edge of the objectives and rest of the optical train, and improved baffling of course would not be necessary in a top quality binocular, but I'm betting that thanks to that, the view will be pretty good despite the price. The main down side is the extra weight and size coming with "wasted glass".
Ron
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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: ronharper]
#5632598 - 01/20/13 03:11 AM
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John,
If I was buying a big and cheap binocular, I would want it to "suffer from reduced aperture". The concurrent increase in focal ratio and reduction in aberrations, elimination of the often flawed edge of the objectives and rest of the optical train, and improved baffling of course would not be necessary in a top quality binocular, but I'm betting that thanks to that, the view will be pretty good despite the price. The main down side is the extra weight and size coming with "wasted glass".
Ron
There is also the issue of mechanical quality. It always seems to come back to the same thing... you get what you pay for. I keep thinking, maybe this one will be different..
Jon
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Urban Observer
member
Reged: 04/06/08
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: Jon Isaacs]
#5633429 - 01/20/13 03:36 PM
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Quote:
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John,
If I was buying a big and cheap binocular, I would want it to "suffer from reduced aperture". The concurrent increase in focal ratio and reduction in aberrations, elimination of the often flawed edge of the objectives and rest of the optical train, and improved baffling of course would not be necessary in a top quality binocular, but I'm betting that thanks to that, the view will be pretty good despite the price. The main down side is the extra weight and size coming with "wasted glass".
Ron
There is also the issue of mechanical quality. It always seems to come back to the same thing... you get what you pay for. I keep thinking, maybe this one will be different..
Jon
I agree with a lot of the stuff posted here. And, currently being on a low-budget myself - I've also found myself hoping that "maybe this one will be different". I suppose my "luck" has been in the middle of the road, when purchasing Chinese-made binos. *sigh*
These days, *before* making a purchase, I always remind myself to consult Edz's Reviews.
-Al
Edited by Urban Observer (01/20/13 05:57 PM)
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Re: Oberwerk 12 x 60's
[Re: Urban Observer]
#5633639 - 01/20/13 05:38 PM
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Al,
Although it was probably wandering off-topic as regards this thread,I found your last question interesting in more ways than one,and probably worthy of you starting a new thread about.
Kenny
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