Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page


Speciality Forums >> Astro Art, Books, Websites & Other Media

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | (show all)
PhilCo126
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5651966 - 01/30/13 10:17 AM

Advantage of digital versions... Out-of-Print NASA publications made available online
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/series95.html#monographs


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ragaisis
sage
*****

Reged: 05/16/08

Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: BillFerris]
      #5652162 - 01/30/13 11:59 AM

Well said, Bill. I've grown up with books over the past half century. I LOVE 'em. But I also embrace the advantages that technology brings. And I look forward to the future. The Consumer Electronics Show has already been showing off computer screens that are flexible pieces of plastic that can be rolled up for storage. Camping stores all sell small solar panels with the connections to charge your phones and tablets.

Maybe we aren't where we need to be to "replace" books. Remember, there was a time where people were saying that the steam engine wouldn't replace horses or even manual laborers on the railroad. All the shortfalls that people had were eventually be addressed. And there were benefits that nobody even considered, as well.

Will books be replaced by electronic media? Maybe. Probably. Will we see it? Perhaps. Will we be required to give up our beloved books when it happens. No way! Having one doesn't mean that you can't have the other. They aren't mutually exclusive.

When people ask me about this topic (or even whether to give electronic media a try) I always say, "Give it a shot. Give it an honest try for a couple months and see what you like and don't about it. What you find may surprise you one way or another." I know people who won't buy a book unless it is available for the Kindle. And I know those who have just handed the technology to someone else to use.

Me? I look forward to the possibilities...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
swalker
Imaging Editor - Sky & Telescope
*****

Reged: 01/22/07

Loc: 42.9225°N, 71.2242°W
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: Ragaisis]
      #5652362 - 01/30/13 01:43 PM

One thing you won't find as an E-book is art exhibition catalogs. Most of the books I want to read for my own enjoyment is artist biographies and the thick, $100 books of retrospective exhibitions. You can't find a single one on the kindle store, because picture books are by nature massive- text uses vector-graphics, which are tiny in actual bit usage, while pictures are raster-graphics, which are much bigger. That and I'm sure it's hard to sell an e-book for upwards of $100.
However, there is good reason these books cost so much. Taking photographs of artwork is expensive and time consuming. You don't just walk around a gallery snapping photos. You need specific lighting, a special lens (micro lenses are designed for this purpose, so that straight lines near the edge of a photo are not distorted), and much finessing of each variable to take a good photo of a painting or sculpture.

So for this reason, I don't see E-books replacing printed ones. Not for a long time at least.

Edited by swalker (01/30/13 01:47 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5652463 - 01/30/13 02:31 PM

Quote:

When someone invents a large, paper-thin, high-def screen that folds up like a map, and allows you to turn it into any map you want, that problem may be solved.

Everything has its place. But books have a much more exalted place than electronics in my world.




Then you guys will be happy to know that thin plastic roll-up displays are already well along in the development process. Id bet that they can get them to fold up pretty soon. Theres even work on clothing that can function as a display as you walk down the street, while also including sensors to feed your vital signs to your doctors office (a doctor who might be in India or China).

However, even better: A number of firms are well along on e-glasses that will project the display directly into your eyes! You will have full-time access to the net, and can display say a few pages of your favorite book or map while stopping to take a rest. It will provide full-time info on what you are seeing. Meet a person in a coffee shop? The glasses will allow you to immediately see their FaceBook wall and bio. See a tree? Instantly connect to the Wikipedia page on that species, or see vital data displayed next to the tree in your field of vision.

This tech will be available faster than you can say iPad.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: George N]
      #5652469 - 01/30/13 02:36 PM

I see people expressing concern about not being able to read old digital formats. However, since your ebook files will be in the cloud, not on your storage, the reading of old formats is Googles problem, not yours. You will not own a book file in the old sense. You will only purchase an access to the on-line file. This stuff will be there forever, as will anything you post even now on the web.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: George N]
      #5652515 - 01/30/13 03:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

When someone invents a large, paper-thin, high-def screen that folds up like a map, and allows you to turn it into any map you want, that problem may be solved.

Everything has its place. But books have a much more exalted place than electronics in my world.




Then you guys will be happy to know that thin plastic roll-up displays are already well along in the development process. Id bet that they can get them to fold up pretty soon. Theres even work on clothing that can function as a display as you walk down the street, while also including sensors to feed your vital signs to your doctors office (a doctor who might be in India or China).

However, even better: A number of firms are well along on e-glasses that will project the display directly into your eyes! You will have full-time access to the net, and can display say a few pages of your favorite book or map while stopping to take a rest. It will provide full-time info on what you are seeing. Meet a person in a coffee shop? The glasses will allow you to immediately see their FaceBook wall and bio. See a tree? Instantly connect to the Wikipedia page on that species, or see vital data displayed next to the tree in your field of vision.

This tech will be available faster than you can say iPad.




OMG!! That sounds like a script for a lulu of a nightmare!!

But here's the good part: I don't have to be a part of that. If I fall behind the times, it'll be times I don't want to keep up with.
If they stop making books, I'll have to get my books from the lot that's already been printed; anything newer, I'll print myself. Or else do without it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rockethead26
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/21/09

Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5652532 - 01/30/13 03:19 PM

Quote:

My dream is to have an old fashion library with dark wood paneling and bookshelfs from floor to ceiling full of books.

Rich (RLTYS)




Like this?

This is a picture of the main hall of the Trinity College Library in Dublin that I referenced in an earlier post. I did not take this image and it is in the public domain.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: JayinUT]
      #5652533 - 01/30/13 03:21 PM

Quote:

....... School books over the next 20 years will move from hard bound books to books online. .....




20 years? Id bet some school districts will convert over in 2 years! As I previously posted, in South Korea, as of this year, there is no longer any paper in any schools. Books, notes, homework, tests, records are all on computer. They are teaching the kids how to type, not how to hand write.

If New York or California Ed Dept goes to Apple and says We want to buy 7 million iPads, and this is the price well pay, including service and recycle after 4 years you can bet that they will pay a lot less that you or I will for the same tablet. Ive seen savings estimates of nearly 2 thousand dollars per high school student by going digital. Additionally, imagine an 11th grade chemistry student having problems understanding something while doing homework, and their text book offers a live connection to a teacher in India who can answer their questions. The learning benefits are obvious.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: George N]
      #5652588 - 01/30/13 03:44 PM

Art?

Here ( web page ) you can zoom and pan around the Sistine Chapel and probably get a better view than Michalango had.. the site is complete with medieval background music.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
swalker
Imaging Editor - Sky & Telescope
*****

Reged: 01/22/07

Loc: 42.9225°N, 71.2242°W
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: George N]
      #5652615 - 01/30/13 03:57 PM

That's wonderful George, except it's one of the few "public domain" works of art. Also, the books I refer to are not entirely pictures. There's lots of critiques, anecdotes, and other research in them.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Crow Haven
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: Oregon USA
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: swalker]
      #5652837 - 01/30/13 05:34 PM

My guess is that books, etc., in print will continue to be available for as long as their paper and bindings can hold out. There may always be those who are interested in the tangible means of communication...communication is what it's all about, be it by flora, fauna, or human means... but whatever works best in the situation is what will prevail the longest. I imagine those who once pressed their information into clay tablets or carved them in stone would find our methods today of conveying communications marvelous!

I am a book lover too -- that library photo looks like heaven to me -- but when it comes to saving space available for my collection I appreciate some of it in digital format these days.
---Maya


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bicparker
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/07/05

Loc: Texas Hill Country
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #5653404 - 01/30/13 11:08 PM

Paper lasts a long time.. a really long time. A really really really long time. And it can take quite a bit of abuse, extreme changes in temperature, and other environmental changes and still be readable.

While paper and ink (or pencil) does not have the information density of most electronic media, it has a proven longevity that is likely only outlasted by stone carvings. Electronic media in both current and past popular forms has shown comparatively short longevity. Magnetic flux density deteriorates as does the media it is on. UV breaks down re-writable disks, and other optical disk technologies are very environmentally sensitive.

In other words, data on electronic media is very volatile compared to paper and ink.

We are seeing a lot of print media disappearing at a very fast rate. I don't think that will stop, but there will be a trade-off in the long run. We will also see a lot of archival information that has been saved to electronic media disappear at an increasing rate in the future. The information that will be saved will be those bits of data that find an energy sponsor to keep the digital data powered and viable. Otherwise, it will be the data that is committed to paper and ink (in a book), which is and will be the ultimate in resilient information as a practical matter.

Until we find a storage media that has a shelf life of a couple of thousand years with no special decoding requirements and no power requirements, then we are going to have to satisfy ourselves with the increasing volatility of data over the foreseeable future.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CounterWeight
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Palo alto, CA.
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: bicparker]
      #5653487 - 01/31/13 12:59 AM

hmmm anyone read the book or see the movie "Forbidden Planet"...

Look no hands... look no feet... look no bicycle or road!...

"remember the Krell!"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: bicparker]
      #5653498 - 01/31/13 01:13 AM

Quote:

Paper lasts a long time.. a really long time. A really really really long time. And it can take quite a bit of abuse, extreme changes in temperature, and other environmental changes and still be readable.

While paper and ink (or pencil) does not have the information density of most electronic media, it has a proven longevity that is likely only outlasted by stone carvings. Electronic media in both current and past popular forms has shown comparatively short longevity. Magnetic flux density deteriorates as does the media it is on. UV breaks down re-writable disks, and other optical disk technologies are very environmentally sensitive.

In other words, data on electronic media is very volatile compared to paper and ink.

We are seeing a lot of print media disappearing at a very fast rate. I don't think that will stop, but there will be a trade-off in the long run. We will also see a lot of archival information that has been saved to electronic media disappear at an increasing rate in the future. The information that will be saved will be those bits of data that find an energy sponsor to keep the digital data powered and viable. Otherwise, it will be the data that is committed to paper and ink (in a book), which is and will be the ultimate in resilient information as a practical matter.

Until we find a storage media that has a shelf life of a couple of thousand years with no special decoding requirements and no power requirements, then we are going to have to satisfy ourselves with the increasing volatility of data over the foreseeable future.




What a good post! Eventually, all we'll know is what is sponsored for us to know at the moment. No going back to see what the facts were 100 years ago.

Not a pretty picture.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rich (RLTYS)
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 12/18/04

Loc: New York (Long Island)
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: rockethead26]
      #5653677 - 01/31/13 06:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

My dream is to have an old fashion library with dark wood paneling and bookshelfs from floor to ceiling full of books.

Rich (RLTYS)




Like this?

This is a picture of the main hall of the Trinity College Library in Dublin that I referenced in an earlier post. I did not take this image and it is in the public domain.






Now THATS my idea of a library.

Rich (RLTYS)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: bicparker]
      #5654243 - 01/31/13 12:33 PM

Quote:


.....Electronic media in both current and past popular forms has shown comparatively short longevity. ...... In other words, data on electronic media is very volatile compared to paper and ink.....




I'm not sure any of that is true now, or in the near future anyway.

Google (for one) is pumping literarily billions of dollars into creating redundant data centers. They are located in cool geographic regions (to reduce cooling costs) and Google forces local governments to guarantee ultra-cheap taxes, power costs, and secrecy. or no Google data center (and the many high paying jobs). Their goal to save everything forever and I think that they have the $$ to do it. It is interesting that they blur the view of their data centers in Google Earth! Google will not even allow state governors or US Congress members inside their data centers, so we dont know what they have to protect the data, except that it is massively redundant and spread world-wide.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: George N]
      #5654251 - 01/31/13 12:36 PM

And just on time for this discussion. My local news paper (which I read on line) today has an article about one area school district converting over to iPad only for their high school 9th and 10th grades to start, lower grades to follow. The other districts around south-central New York are experimenting with them, and several administrators say that its the wave of the future. Cost savings alone dictates it, but I believe that educational performance will also benefit.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tony Flanders
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: George N]
      #5654635 - 01/31/13 04:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:


.....Electronic media in both current and past popular forms has shown comparatively short longevity.




I'm not sure any of that is true now, or in the near future anyway.




I agree. That particular problem crept up on us unaware early in the computer age, but it became widely recognized a couple of decades ago. Since then, major strides have been made in reproducing and distributing information to make sure that it lasts a very long time.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Crow Haven
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: Oregon USA
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5654703 - 01/31/13 05:08 PM

I don't know anyone who is actually using these http://www.mdisc.com/what-is-mdisc/ so can't vouch for it, but it sounds interesting for file backup...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: How Long Will Printed Books Be Available? new [Re: Crow Haven]
      #5654897 - 01/31/13 07:03 PM

To comment on a couple of posts:

George N,
Google will then have sole distribution rights to all that information. And when they get around to cutting expenses, some of it will disappear. It certainly won't be freely available; it'll be available at the pleasure of Google. Not a problem now, but nothing stays static. Sort of scary, if you invoke the worst case scenarios.

Also George N,
The schools going to ipads is probably a great idea. That's one area where current materials are essential; and books do become out of date.

Tony,
Let's see how those improved digital storage media hold up over a couple of centuries.

It's a pickle! I think we need both printed and digital media to continue into the forseeable future. The only time problems really arise is if we have one and not the other. Move into the future, without sacrificing the past.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | (show all)


Extra information
2 registered and 7 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Geo557, kkokkolis 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 5953

Jump to

CN Forums Home




Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics