hottr6
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/28/09
Loc: 7,500', Magdalena Mtns, NM
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: Wave Vector]
#5611717 - 01/08/13 10:53 AM
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
A ten inch grab and go? Really?
You better believe it! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp2gWQe9XlE
|
csrlice12
Postmaster
Reged: 05/22/12
Loc: Denver, CO
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: hottr6]
#5611747 - 01/08/13 11:06 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
I can have my eyeball to eyepiece in my 10XTi in about half the time of my 102XLT. All my scopes are GoTo Grabngo, I GoTo them daily and look at them because the weather says GoTo inside...it's cold and cloudy out here.......and when a clear day comes along, I grabngo with them.....
|
Pinbout
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/22/10
Loc: Montclair
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: hottr6]
#5611751 - 01/08/13 11:09 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
like the motorized leveling mounts. very cool
|
donnie3
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/15/04
Loc: bartlesville oklahoma
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: Achernar]
#5636184 - 01/22/13 03:19 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
achernar, i agree! i own a 10" orion at the present time and had a 12" about 6 months age, they are big and heavy but manageable. i live in what i would call semi light polluted skies and could not see a real difference on most objects. the 10" is so portable and easy the take out. im sticking with the 10". just my option. donnie
|
Darren Drake
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/09/02
Loc: Chicagoland
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: donnie3]
#5636330 - 01/22/13 07:31 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
It's a 44% increase in light grasp which is significant but not major.
|
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: Wave Vector]
#5636478 - 01/22/13 09:29 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
A ten inch grab and go? Really?
It's relative, compared to a 20 inch, a 10 inch is an easy setup and easy to transport. Compared to an 80 mm apo, its big and awkward.
I have a 10 inch f/5 that I keep around just because it is so handy. I don't call it Grab and Go but if I want to Go on a quick run to a nearby park and want to take a larger scope, it's the one I grab.
Jon
|
Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
Reged: 06/24/03
Loc: Los Angeles
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: Jon Isaacs]
#5637672 - 01/22/13 08:25 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
10" to 12"?
Only if upgrading from an inexpensive Chinese dob to a custom-built American made high-end dob. THEN, it would be worth it.
But upgrading a 10" Chinese dob to a 12" Chinese dob?
No, the change in views would be minimal (44% increase in light grasp, which is not really very significant).
Rebuilding the 10" in a great new housing?
Now that I'd do.
Seems Jon did it, too.
|
Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: donnie3]
#5637688 - 01/22/13 08:35 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
A 10-inch solid tube is a whole lot easier to carry than the 12-inch, which is why I would at that poing go from a solid tube to a truss-tube. I'd choose the 10-inch over a 12 if all I had to choose from was a solid tube configuration.
Taras
|
steveyo
super member
Reged: 03/13/12
Loc: Upstate NY
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: Starman1]
#5644099 - 01/26/13 10:18 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
10" to 12"? Only if upgrading from an inexpensive Chinese dob to a custom-built American made high-end dob...
Yes, what Starman1 said is sage advice.
I had a chance to compare my Apertura AD8 to a Teeter/Zambuto 8" side by side, and difference was easily noticeable. The contrast of Teeter blew away the views in my GSO 8".
I recently sold the AD8, which I loved, and ordered a Teeter/Royce 10" F/5. I decided 10" is my limit due to portability - it will still fit into my Honda Fit and be easy to move around. In fact, the new Teeter will weigh substantially less than my AD8.
Even though 8 - to 10" isn't a huge jump, I anticipate the premium Royce conical mirror to show markedly better contrast, and, given conditions, to be able to accept higher magnification as well. Mmmm...festoons.
|
faackanders2
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/28/11
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: hottr6]
#5645158 - 01/26/13 09:31 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
10 inch to 14+ is a major change. 20" to 12" is a minor change not significant enough.
|
dvb
different Syndrome.
Reged: 06/18/05
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: steveyo]
#5647096 - 01/27/13 10:34 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
10" to 12"? Only if upgrading from an inexpensive Chinese dob to a custom-built American made high-end dob...
Yes, what Starman1 said is sage advice.
I had a chance to compare my Apertura AD8 to a Teeter/Zambuto 8" side by side, and difference was easily noticeable. The contrast of Teeter blew away the views in my GSO 8".
I recently sold the AD8, which I loved, and ordered a Teeter/Royce 10" F/5. I decided 10" is my limit due to portability - it will still fit into my Honda Fit and be easy to move around. In fact, the new Teeter will weigh substantially less than my AD8.
Even though 8 - to 10" isn't a huge jump, I anticipate the premium Royce conical mirror to show markedly better contrast, and, given conditions, to be able to accept higher magnification as well. Mmmm...festoons.
You'll be very pleased with the Royce 10" f/5.
I replaced a Skywatcher 10" f/4.7 with a Royce 10" f/4.5, and I am continually astounded at the improvement in what I can see in the deep sky
|
RocketScientist
super member
Reged: 08/28/08
Loc: California (East Bay area)
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: dvb]
#5647226 - 01/28/13 12:15 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
I agree with the consensus here. I love my 10", and after looking through quite a range of others' scopes at star parties, I wouldn't upgrade to anything less than 15". Somewhere around 15" is where galaxies start to show detail instead of blobs.
I think there's a sweet spot around 15" - 16" if you can handle the portability issues. 12", not so much; you are adding far more weight than light-gathering or resolving power in going from 10" to 12".
|
steveyo
super member
Reged: 03/13/12
Loc: Upstate NY
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: dvb]
#5647537 - 01/28/13 08:01 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
...I recently sold the AD8, which I loved, and ordered a Teeter/Royce 10" F/5...Even though 8 - to 10" isn't a huge jump, I anticipate the premium Royce conical mirror to show markedly better contrast, and, given conditions, to be able to accept higher magnification as well. Mmmm...festoons.
You'll be very pleased with the Royce 10" f/5.
I replaced a Skywatcher 10" f/4.7 with a Royce 10" f/4.5, and I am continually astounded at the improvement in what I can see in the deep sky
Glad to hear this - thanks!
|
GeneT
Ely Kid
Reged: 11/07/08
Loc: South Texas
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: RocketScientist]
#5648679 - 01/28/13 04:48 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
I agree with the consensus here. I love my 10", and after looking through quite a range of others' scopes at star parties, I wouldn't upgrade to anything less than 15". Somewhere around 15" is where galaxies start to show detail instead of blobs.
I think there's a sweet spot around 15" - 16" if you can handle the portability issues. 12", not so much; you are adding far more weight than light-gathering or resolving power in going from 10" to 12".
Again, I remember some advice that Peter Smitka gave me almost 20 years ago. If you want a noticeable bump up, double the light gathering of your optics. You would go from an 8 to a 12 to an 18 and so on. Something in that order is what I would recommend. Yes to going up a few inches IF you are going to move up in optical quality.
|
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: GeneT]
#5648723 - 01/28/13 05:06 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
Again, I remember some advice that Peter Smitka gave me almost 20 years ago. If you want a noticeable bump up, double the light gathering of your optics. You would go from an 8 to a 12 to an 18 and so on. Something in that order is what I would recommend. Yes to going up a few inches IF you are going to move up in optical quality.
The step from a 10 inch to a 12.5 inch is noticeable but it's not dramatic. If one is in search of a WOW, then the step up is probably not going to be satisfactory.
On the other hand, if one is looking for a more capable tool, then a 12.5 inch will show more than a 10 inch and it may be worthwhile.
Jon
|
Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: Jon Isaacs]
#5648802 - 01/28/13 05:39 PM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
If one is in search of a WOW, then the step up is probably not going to be satisfactory.
Nicely made point, Jon... one i've not yet (that i know) heard articulated, and a very insightful differentiation; if "WOW" is all one is after, get the big back-hoe with a HUGE bucket. If, otoh, one is performing a paleontological "dig" looking for delicate fossils, something with a bit more control & finesse is probably in order.
Fit the tool to the need.
In optical terms, finesse is what my friend's 6" AP 'fractor will show you... amazing levels of detail, finely pointed stars all over the place, pointier than the mortal mind can fathom! Yet it's "only" 6-inches of aperture. After a night of looking thru typical Dobs & Cats, and even good ones at that, you'd be led to guess it was a far larger aperture, based on its views! 
Quote:
Yes to going up a few inches IF you are going to move up in optical quality.
Or stated another way, if your shoe size is a 12, and you're limping along in a "10", you prob'ly don't need a "14". Yeah, it's bigger, but the 12 is what FITS you!  Any number of pairs of discount 14's aren't going to do it for you... so spend what you can afford (or as we so often do, a wee tad more ) and get the absolute BEST 12 that you can swing, maybe even "used" to allow more quality in the budget.
Then you have really good-performing & quality shoes, and ones that FIT you, to boot!
|
gaz-in
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/17/07
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: johnnyha]
#5649753 - 01/29/13 06:45 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
Great choice. It's amazing how many seasoned observers have settled on a 12" class dob for their main scope, due to its portability and ability to cool down quickly. Larger dobs can end up chasing thermals all night long. 12" is great. If you can find a thin premium mirror then all the better.
Concur with this reccomendation. I have a 12 inch with a 1 inch thick Gordon Waite mirror....with the cooling fans on it will drop about 10 degrees in 15 minutes.
|
mark379
member
Reged: 02/07/09
Loc: New Jersey
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: RocketScientist]
#5649940 - 01/29/13 09:55 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
I have had both. I wound up getting rid of the 12 and Now have a 10 and a 14 in. There is very little gained visually between 10 and 12", but a lot of weight. Later I decided on a truss in 14 for when I go out into the country for DSO work.
The 10" is a fine scope which will give great views for the weight. 
|
ckwastro
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/23/05
Loc: Tempe, AZ
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: denis0007dl]
#5650085 - 01/29/13 11:23 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
I have 10" tuned dob using for binoviewing, so is worth to upgrade it with 12"" mirror?
Will be difference noticable, and how much?
I am not interest for 14" or larger mirrors because of weight, size....
I suppose this would depend on your end game, and what objects you mainly observe. Are you looking to have the largest scope that you feel you can move, transport, and store? If 12" is the top, then it might be worth it if you have no future plans for any larger telescopes.
However, if you are really not interested in 14" or larger, but are looking for a significantly noticeable visual increase over the 10", then I would say no, the upgrade to a 12" would not be worth it. You'd need to jump up to a 14.5 or 16 minimum for that IMHO, and as you stated, those don't hold interest for you due to weight and size. The 10" is going to be easier all the way around than the 12", and in most cases would not be worth the extra hassle or money to upgrade for the extra 2".
I owned a 10" f/5.6 solid-tube and 14.5" f/4.3 truss, together for several years. The 10" was a simple two-trip drop & go. The 14.5" was a little more work, but not bad at all. Since I owned the 14.5 first, I only got the 10" for home use when I didn't have a lot of time or didn't feel like setting up the 14.5.
The difference between these two was certainly noticeable, but still not a huge "wow factor". Finer details were easier in the 14.5 but most of that detail was still visible in the 10. It was observations of faint objects under dark skies where the 14.5 noticeably out-performed the 10. When I compared the 10 to my friend's 12.5 under those same dark skies, the difference was no more than "edge of seeing"; in other words, negligible.
Edited by ckwastro (01/29/13 11:48 AM)
|
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
Reged: 06/16/04
Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
|
Re: Upgrade 10" to 12"-is this worth?
[Re: ckwastro]
#5651642 - 01/30/13 06:17 AM
|
|
Edit
|
Reply
|
Quote |
Quick Reply
|
|
|
Quote:
When I compared the 10 to my friend's 12.5 under those same dark skies, the difference was no more than "edge of seeing"; in other words, negligible.
I have owned both a 10 inch and a 12.5 inch for more than 10 years. For me, I can say that the difference is significant, noticeable. Stars are brighter, working at the limit, faint objects are doable in the 12.5 inch that I just couldn't see in the 10 inch. Greater magnifications are possible.
If one makes the comparison at equal magnifications, the advantage of the greater aperture may not be so apparent. To take advantage of the larger aperture, comparisons can be done at same exit pupil, this means that extended objects are of equal brightness in both scopes but they are larger is the larger scope which translates into seeing/detecting smaller objects.
Jon Isaacs
Edited by Jon Isaacs (01/30/13 06:19 AM)
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
