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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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terry59
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5643209 - 01/25/13 07:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The D5100/D7000 also uses a Sony CMOS sensor which, in benchmark tests, blew the barn doors off of the 5DMkII




I totally agree.

I have both the D5100 and D7000 and a 10 minute dark frame at 20 Celsius shows next to no noise at all. Their sensors are freak'in awesome!

Guylain




And yet people seem to still think Canon's the holy grail in terms of AP...

If people truly gave Nikon a shot and tested a D5100/D7000 out, they'd never go back.




I really want to get a D5100 but I'd like to see more actual performance over a wider range of targets, with a modified camera, using various LP and NB filters. There just aren't many images out there at all...


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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: terry59]
      #5643265 - 01/25/13 08:01 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The D5100/D7000 also uses a Sony CMOS sensor which, in benchmark tests, blew the barn doors off of the 5DMkII




I totally agree.

I have both the D5100 and D7000 and a 10 minute dark frame at 20 Celsius shows next to no noise at all. Their sensors are freak'in awesome!

Guylain




And yet people seem to still think Canon's the holy grail in terms of AP...

If people truly gave Nikon a shot and tested a D5100/D7000 out, they'd never go back.




I really want to get a D5100 but I'd like to see more actual performance over a wider range of targets, with a modified camera, using various LP and NB filters. There just aren't many images out there at all...




I've been trying to do that at least with my unmodified camera, however for the last three months I've been sort of precluded from doing so due to a persistent and rather soaking cloud cover that began in the first week of October. And lately, just when ya think things are clearing out, we get socked in again.

To say I've had a frustrating late fall/winter deep sky imaging season is a vast understatement.


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guyroch
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: terry59]
      #5643280 - 01/25/13 08:12 PM

Quote:

I really want to get a D5100 but I'd like to see more actual performance over a wider range of targets, with a modified camera, using various LP and NB filters. There just aren't many images out there at all...





Why wait? A D5100 body only nowadays is just over the $400 mark ~ brand new. Granted, it's $400 buckaroos but it's not like it was 5 years ago where a Canon 40D was $2000.

The D5100 and D7000 have the same sony sensor... so if you can find D7000 images consider them the same as having been taken with a D7000.

Guylain


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terry59
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: guyroch]
      #5643909 - 01/26/13 08:00 AM

Quote:


Why wait? A D5100 body only nowadays is just over the $400 mark ~ brand new. Granted, it's $400 buckaroos but it's not like it was 5 years ago where a Canon 40D was $2000.





I have a functioning, albeit noisy, modified D50. I can't find a new D5100 body for $400. The cheapest is just under $500. I a VERY tempted based on Steve's two recent images though


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guyroch
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: terry59]
      #5644032 - 01/26/13 09:37 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Why wait? A D5100 body only nowadays is just over the $400 mark ~ brand new. Granted, it's $400 buckaroos but it's not like it was 5 years ago where a Canon 40D was $2000.





I have a functioning, albeit noisy, modified D50. I can't find a new D5100 body for $400. The cheapest is just under $500. I a VERY tempted based on Steve's two recent images though




I got one of my brand new D5100 from these guys in Toronto, Canada for $429 last week (on their ebay store). That camera is now in the mail on its way to Jim to be MONOfied.

Guylain

Edited by guyroch (01/26/13 09:38 AM)


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terry59
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: guyroch]
      #5644066 - 01/26/13 09:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Why wait? A D5100 body only nowadays is just over the $400 mark ~ brand new. Granted, it's $400 buckaroos but it's not like it was 5 years ago where a Canon 40D was $2000.





I have a functioning, albeit noisy, modified D50. I can't find a new D5100 body for $400. The cheapest is just under $500. I a VERY tempted based on Steve's two recent images though




I got one of my brand new D5100 from these guys in Toronto, Canada for $429 last week (on their ebay store). That camera is now in the mail on its way to Jim to be MONOfied.

Guylain




I'm looking forward to seeing how it performs. Which NB filters do you plan to use with it?


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guyroch
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: terry59]
      #5644190 - 01/26/13 11:04 AM

Quote:

I'm looking forward to seeing how it performs. Which NB filters do you plan to use with it?




I'll probably want to still keep using a FL and/or FF with the MONOfied D5100. This means that I won't be able to use a filter wheel so manual filter changing it will have to be.

I'll probably stick to HA, SII, OIII with this camera. I think it will become my favorite Hubble pallet camera.

Guylain


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Jerry Lodriguss
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: TopherTheME]
      #5644848 - 01/26/13 06:18 PM

Quote:

You all wanna talk about how Nikon outperforms Canon in terms of image noise and sensitivity? How about the camera brand that outperforms them all, PENTAX! The K-5 (II, IIs) outperforms ALL Canons and the D5100 along with the D7000 in terms of noise and sensitivity and really overall image quality.




I'm curious to see where this evaluation is quantified.

Can you provide a link?

Thanks,

Jerry


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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: Jerry Lodriguss]
      #5644865 - 01/26/13 06:29 PM

His claims are falling short on Pentax.

According to DxO Labs, Nikon is blowing even Canon away in sensor score ratings. The D5200 is even beating the Pentax K-5

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Ratings/List-view


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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: TopherTheME]
      #5644874 - 01/26/13 06:34 PM

Quote:

You all wanna talk about how Nikon outperforms Canon in terms of image noise and sensitivity? How about the camera brand that outperforms them all, PENTAX! The K-5 (II, IIs) outperforms ALL Canons and the D5100 along with the D7000 in terms of noise and sensitivity and really overall image quality. Its also weather sealed and cold proof. It has in camera image stabilization (YEAH image stabilization with your telescope! not that you would need it).

And for those of you that like to use old manual lenses, Pentax hasn't changed their mount in 30+ years. That means you can use any K-mount lens Pentax has every made.

Really, the only reason not buy a Pentax (or even Nikon) over a Canon is that you can't use BYEOS and those clip in filters may not work. There just really is no other selling point to Canon cameras for AP.

And did I mention the K-5 IIs has no AA filter allowing for sharper (higher resolution) images?




You are grossly incorrect.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Ratings/List-view

Additionally, Nikon has had the same F-mount lens mount bayonet for over 50 years. Beats Pentax by a longshot.

Furthermore, the D5100 and D5200 features not only lens element-shift but also sensor-shift image stabilization. I speak with solid experience in this as a professional photographer who shoots exclusively with a Nikon D5100.

And according to DxO Labs, the D5200 is beating the Pentax.


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Jerry Lodriguss
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5644877 - 01/26/13 06:35 PM

Quote:

I don't think it should be a matter of how committed Nikon is - or is not - in terms of astro-photography camera platforms, insomuch as it has everything to do with the perception that Canons are the Holy Grail despite four of Nikon's latest camera models blowing the barn doors off of their direct Canon competitors. The D5100/D7000 vastly outperformed the higher-end Canon 5DMkII in every benchmark test aside from video and in noise reduction - especially in low-light, high-ISO settings, both walked away from Canon.

DxO Labs, in fact, gave its sensor a score of 80, which was far above the ratings held by much more expensive Canon competitors.




Hi Steve,

Could you provide a link to these direct comparisons where these Nikons "blow the doors off" the Canons in some long-exposure deep-sky imaging comparisons?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend Canon. I have used both Nikon and Canon professionally, I don't have any marriage to either. I just don't care which one I use.

I haven't seen any tests or reports or evaluations of any cameras by the usual suspects that have a clue about long-exposure astrophotography. They are all daytime tests, and even those are not very good (such as DPReviews).

For example, none of them use long-exposure raw images that are correctly calibrated with darks, bias and flats.

Honestly, all of the daytime tests I have seen are pretty much a joke for the issues that concern astrophotographers. They are basically meaningless.

To say the Nikons blow the doors off the Canons in daytime tests doesn't really give me any useful information.

I would like to see some controlled and quantified astrophotographic tests comparing these cameras. Can you point any out to me?

Your horsehead image is very nice btw!

Jerry


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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: Jerry Lodriguss]
      #5644895 - 01/26/13 06:45 PM

The basis of testing a camera model for astrophotography is really moot when DSLR's for astrophotography is a relatively new concept and it wasn't until very recently in the history of the DSLR (which by the way Nikon pioneered with the D1) that Canon first offered one strictly for the purpose.

In terms of test results, we only have a couple (if you count the various photos taken with the D7000/D5100 vs the 5D MkII, etc).

I don't shoot Canon and never will, beats the purpose of having to give up a platform with over 50 years of lens interchangeability (read: being able to shoot a 40-year-old Nikkor on my D5100; can't do that with Canons), but I think with Nikon's sensor score beating Canons lately, and with Nikon having the best in-camera noise reduction, it's a safe bet Nikon will at some point be the preferred camera to use in terms of astrophotography.

I say this because when the D5100/D7000 came out, every review website out there gave them much higher marks over the Canon 5D Mark II with exception to video. And those high marks had a lot to do with the new Sony sensor and Nikon's new noise reduction algorithms in low-light situations.

That isn't to say we need more data, though. I agree, we do, but for now, Nikon is walking away, and according to DxO Labs' latest tests, quite resoundingly, away from any Canon on the market.


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TopherTheME
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5644909 - 01/26/13 06:54 PM

Quote:



You are grossly incorrect.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Ratings/List-view

Additionally, Nikon has had the same F-mount lens for over 50 years. Beats Pentax by a longshot.

Furthermore, the D5100 and D5200 features not only lens element-shift but also sensor-shift image stabilization. I speak with solid experience in this as a professional photographer who shoots exclusively with a Nikon D5100.

And according to DxO Labs, the D5200 is beating the Pentax.




There is nothing incorrect about any of my statements. The K-5 does outperform both the d5100 and the d7000. Yes, the new d5200 has a slightly higher rating but I never said it didn't. And BTW, its the only APS-C camera that does, as it should given its a brand new camera with a state of the art sensor.

As for lens compatibility, you're telling me that you can use any pre-AI Nikkor lens on your d5100? Cause this chart says otherwise.

http://resources.nikonians.org/reviews?alias=nikon-slr-camera-and-lens-compat...


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Tonk
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5644911 - 01/26/13 06:55 PM

Quote:

when DSLR's for astrophotography is a relatively new concept




New ?? Really. Ive been using DSLR for astrophotography for 10 years as have plenty of others. I think the DLSR pioneers were trailblazing just about 12 years ago. Thats a long time in this age of rapid technology changes.


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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: TopherTheME]
      #5644916 - 01/26/13 06:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:



You are grossly incorrect.

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Ratings/List-view

Additionally, Nikon has had the same F-mount lens for over 50 years. Beats Pentax by a longshot.

Furthermore, the D5100 and D5200 features not only lens element-shift but also sensor-shift image stabilization. I speak with solid experience in this as a professional photographer who shoots exclusively with a Nikon D5100.

And according to DxO Labs, the D5200 is beating the Pentax.




There is nothing incorrect about any of my statements. The K-5 does outperform both the d5100 and the d7000. Yes, the new d5200 has a slightly higher rating but I never said it didn't. And BTW, its the only APS-C camera that does, as it should given its a brand new camera with a state of the art sensor.

As for lens compatibility, you're telling me that you can use any pre-AI Nikkor lens on your d5100? Cause this chart says otherwise.

http://resources.nikonians.org/reviews?alias=nikon-slr-camera-and-lens-compat...




You can use ANY Nikkor lens, pre-AI or not, as long as you use it manually on ANY Nikon DSLR.

I know this as fact because I currently have a 50mm 1.4 Nikkor mounted to my Nikon D5100 that originally came off of my Nikkormat FTn.


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Jerry Lodriguss
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5644991 - 01/26/13 07:41 PM

Quote:

The basis of testing a camera model for astrophotography is really moot when DSLR's for astrophotography is a relatively new concept...




Huh?

Testing a camera for astrophotography is hardly moot when the cameras under discussion here are used for astrophotography.

The rest of your reply is just hand waving, unfortunately.

As I said before, everyone is testing these cameras for daytime use, and astrophotography is a completely different subject with completely different requirements in a camera.


Jerry


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Jerry Lodriguss
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5644997 - 01/26/13 07:46 PM

Quote:

I don't shoot Canon and never will, beats the purpose of having to give up a platform with over 50 years of lens interchangeability (read: being able to shoot a 40-year-old Nikkor on my D5100; can't do that with Canons),




Sure you can. I use my old Nikon lenses on my Canon bodies. :-)

And


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terry59
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: Jerry Lodriguss]
      #5645009 - 01/26/13 07:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The basis of testing a camera model for astrophotography is really moot when DSLR's for astrophotography is a relatively new concept...




Huh?

Testing a camera for astrophotography is hardly moot when the cameras under discussion here are used for astrophotography.

The rest of your reply is just hand waving, unfortunately.

As I said before, everyone is testing these cameras for daytime use, and astrophotography is a completely different subject with completely different requirements in a camera.


Jerry




Jerry - I know of two CN members with a modded D5100. One name escapes me but he got his at Spencers and the other is TimN who got his modded by Brent Oliver just recently and I haven't seen any images yet.

Edit: Astronewb is the other

Edited by terry59 (01/26/13 07:54 PM)


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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: Jerry Lodriguss]
      #5645013 - 01/26/13 07:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The basis of testing a camera model for astrophotography is really moot when DSLR's for astrophotography is a relatively new concept...




Huh?

Testing a camera for astrophotography is hardly moot when the cameras under discussion here are used for astrophotography.

The rest of your reply is just hand waving, unfortunately.

As I said before, everyone is testing these cameras for daytime use, and astrophotography is a completely different subject with completely different requirements in a camera.


Jerry




And if you read my reply, I said I agree that we need more tests. Unfortunately there's really none except the photos out there.

With respect the the last part, I can shoot perfectly with my Nikon without any needed requirements for astrophotography.


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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: Jerry Lodriguss]
      #5645018 - 01/26/13 07:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I don't shoot Canon and never will, beats the purpose of having to give up a platform with over 50 years of lens interchangeability (read: being able to shoot a 40-year-old Nikkor on my D5100; can't do that with Canons),




Sure you can. I use my old Nikon lenses on my Canon bodies. :-)

And




That's not what I was talking about.


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