Telescope Reviews: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors

· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt

· Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

You are not logged in. [Login]

Entrance · Main Index · Search · New user · Who's Online
FAQ · Calendar

Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)

Rich V.
Post Laureate

Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA

12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors
#5638528 - 01/23/13 09:52 AM

Just a link to a post on Refractors showing pictures of a new 12" binocular telescope on an equatorial mount. It uses a "rotary clamp" similar to what I've seen on Matsumoto's site to keep the binos level for EQ viewing.

12" BT in Germany

Very cool!

Rich

Post Extras:

Andresin150
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 08/14/07

Loc: Bogotá - La Calera / Colombia

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: Rich V.]
#5638715 - 01/23/13 11:21 AM

Incredible!,
My 40x150's now look portable, aren't they?
amazing project!

Post Extras:

hallelujah
Post Laureate

Reged: 07/14/06

Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: Rich V.]
#5638742 - 01/23/13 11:36 AM

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=808439

Post Extras:

richsvt
sage

Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: North Shore of Boston

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: hallelujah]
#5639267 - 01/23/13 05:17 PM

makes anything I have look like a toy.

Post Extras:

PhilCo126
Carpal Tunnel

Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: richsvt]
#5643798 - 01/26/13 04:48 AM

Check the vendor topic:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5636500

Post Extras:

edwincjones
Close Enough

Reged: 04/10/04

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: PhilCo126]
#5643825 - 01/26/13 05:45 AM

why

edj

Post Extras:

edwincjones
Close Enough

Reged: 04/10/04

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: edwincjones]
#5643829 - 01/26/13 05:50 AM

I can understand going up to 150mm (I have one),
but have never understood the logic, reason, usefulness
of the larger BT due to the cost, duplication of optics
Why not just get a larger scope with binoviewer?

Other than uniqueness,
doing it because you have the money and can,
what is the advantage of this binocular over a telescope?

edj

Post Extras:

Joad
Wordsmith

Reged: 03/22/05

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: edwincjones]
#5644450 - 01/26/13 01:55 PM

I have the same questions, but I think I know the answer. There is a certain mystique to binoculars (as opposed to telescopes) that those of us on this forum have personally experienced. It is indeed far more rational to get a big truss dob and use a binoviewer. You can even move the big truss dob to a dark site, while this ton-and-a-half binocular must be permanently placed in a professional quality observatory. And there also seems to be a sort of unofficial law of diminishing returns when it comes to what binoculars can manage relative to magnification and precise collimation.

So I think I this is a harmless indulgence (at $500,000 it is a lot cheaper than I would have expected) on the part of someone with good taste and lots of money. There are a lot worse things to indulge oneself with, and this one will probably be a good investment on top of everything else.

Post Extras:

GlennLeDrew
Postmaster

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: Joad]
#5644484 - 01/26/13 02:18 PM

"...unofficial law of diminishing returns..." Unofficial indeed, for it does not apply.

If a gigantor of a binocular is not relevant, nor is any size bino. Whether big or small, one is using two eyes and hence enjoying the same gain in signal to noise. The improvement realized when going from, say, a 2" to a 4" bino is the same gain found when transitioning from a 6" to a 12" bino. It's all about ratios. And for given exit pupil diameter, the true bino always offers an image twice as bright as that of the BV-equipped mono job. The humongous bino is quite as relevant as any other size.

Post Extras:

Joad
Wordsmith

Reged: 03/22/05

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: GlennLeDrew]
#5644512 - 01/26/13 02:34 PM

Ah, but I'm not referring to the precisions of optical law; I'm referring to the fact that, say, a 100mm binocular telescope (like my BT) simply cannot manage the magnification of a good quality 100mm refractor, and is hugely sensitive to the slightest collimation offsets in a way that the telescope isn't.

I expect that this custom 12 inch binocular will be built with the intention of being so mechanically and optically perfect that it can perform equally with respect to a mid-sized telescope (I count 12" as mid-sized), but I wouldn't be surprised if the final result was not able to achieve such a level of perfection.

Some evidence for my expectations lies in the reviews I've seen of the giant reflector binoculars made by JMI. They are definitely not high magnification instruments, though their aperture is capable of very high magnification in a telescope.

Post Extras:

edwincjones
Close Enough

Reged: 04/10/04

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: GlennLeDrew]
#5644518 - 01/26/13 02:38 PM

Quote:

"...unofficial law of diminishing returns..." Unofficial indeed, for it does not apply.

If a gigantor of a binocular is not relevant, nor is any size bino. Whether big or small, one is using two eyes and hence enjoying the same gain in signal to noise. The improvement realized when going from, say, a 2" to a 4" bino is the same gain found when transitioning from a 6" to a 12" bino. It's all about ratios. And for given exit pupil diameter, the true bino always offers an image twice as bright as that of the BV-equipped mono job. The humongous bino is quite as relevant as any other size.

ok-I can see this

having the 12" binoculars are no more extreme to me
than me having 25x150s are to many others

thanks Glenn for the insight

edj

Post Extras:

faackanders2
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 03/28/11

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: hallelujah]
#5644526 - 01/26/13 02:40 PM

Quote:

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=808439

WOW, It really is for sale. I thought is was made for someone or some observatory.

Post Extras:

faackanders2
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 03/28/11

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: edwincjones]
#5644531 - 01/26/13 02:43 PM

Quote:

I can understand going up to 150mm (I have one),
but have never understood the logic, reason, usefulness
of the larger BT due to the cost, duplication of optics
Why not just get a larger scope with binoviewer?

Other than uniqueness,
doing it because you have the money and can,
what is the advantage of this binocular over a telescope?

edj

Wouldn't it have much wider TFOV for the aperture (than binoviewing with equivalent aperture)?

Post Extras:

faackanders2
Pooh-Bah

Reged: 03/28/11

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: Joad]
#5644544 - 01/26/13 02:49 PM

Quote:

Ah, but I'm not referring to the precisions of optical law; I'm referring to the fact that, say, a 100mm binocular telescope (like my BT) simply cannot manage the magnification of a good quality 100mm refractor, and is hugely sensitive to the slightest collimation offsets in a way that the telescope isn't.

I expect that this custom 12 inch binocular will be built with the intention of being so mechanically and optically perfect that it can perform equally with respect to a mid-sized telescope (I count 12" as mid-sized), but I wouldn't be surprised if the final result was not able to achieve such a level of perfection.

Some evidence for my expectations lies in the reviews I've seen of the giant reflector binoculars made by JMI. They are definitely not high magnification instruments, though their aperture is capable of very high magnification in a telescope.

Isn't the reason why people choose binos for the wide views (as mentioned binoviewers provide narrow views).

Post Extras:

EdZ
Professor EdZ

Reged: 02/15/02

Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: faackanders2]
#5644547 - 01/26/13 02:50 PM

depends on the f# of the scope being used to binoview and whether or not it has been designed (shortened as some are) to accomodate a binoviewer witthout the need for an OCS. If you were trying to use a scope/binoviewer to do this you would most certainly design in tose accomodations. In which case, fov then becomes a limitation of the eyepices that can be used. There are binoviewers that will allow use of a 45mm field stop. So, I would say this can easily be accomplished with a scope binoviewer combo. An 18" f/4 scope with a 45mm clear aperure binoviewer would easily accomodate the same field of view, at a fraction of the cost.

edz

Post Extras:

edwincjones
Close Enough

Reged: 04/10/04

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: faackanders2]
#5644720 - 01/26/13 04:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=808439

WOW, It really is for sale. I thought is was made for someone or some observatory.

I am waiting for the "no reserve" auction

edj

Post Extras:

Mark9473
Postmaster

Reged: 07/21/05

Loc: 51°N 4°E

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: faackanders2]
#5644793 - 01/26/13 05:36 PM

Quote:

WOW, It really is for sale. I thought is was made for someone or some observatory.

The one that's finished now isn't for sale, it's going to China, but they're offering to build you another one by 2015.

Post Extras:

edwincjones
Close Enough

Reged: 04/10/04

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: Mark9473]
#5645123 - 01/26/13 08:58 PM

it is really not that bad
only 35% down and
time payments over the next 2-3 years
let's see
-$175,000 down
-about $13,000 month x 24 months + any interest

edj

Post Extras:

GlennLeDrew
Postmaster

Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: edwincjones]
#5645311 - 01/27/13 12:05 AM

An arbitrarily large bino need not impose any particular difficulty whatsoever as regards similarity of image scale and collimation.

If we allow magnification to differ by 1-2%, as is the case for small binos, the allowable errors on radii of curvature simply scale in proportion, which poses no problem at all in fabrication.

Collimation is never problematic, no matter the magnification, when on-the-fly adjustment is afforded the user. Adherence to basic engineering practice for the avoidance of any significant differential flexure assures reliable performance.

Post Extras:

edwincjones
Close Enough

Reged: 04/10/04

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new

[Re: GlennLeDrew]
#5645524 - 01/27/13 06:11 AM

Glenn,

that said,

what would one do with a 12" that could not be done with 4" or 6" binoculars?

when I have gotten larger binoculars,
there has always been a goal
-the Ms I couldnot find with smaller
-the AL H400s

I would guess better reach for comets,
galaxy groups, smaller open clusters
other objects better seen with binoculars than scopes?

edj

Post Extras:

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)

Extra information

8 registered and 31 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator: knuklhdastnmr, panhard

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Thread views: 2646

Jump to

CN Forums

Home

Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics