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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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Rich V.
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Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors
      #5638528 - 01/23/13 09:52 AM

Just a link to a post on Refractors showing pictures of a new 12" binocular telescope on an equatorial mount. It uses a "rotary clamp" similar to what I've seen on Matsumoto's site to keep the binos level for EQ viewing.

12" BT in Germany

Very cool!

Rich


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Andresin150
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Reged: 08/14/07

Loc: Bogotá - La Calera / Colombia
Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: Rich V.]
      #5638715 - 01/23/13 11:21 AM

Incredible!,
My 40x150's now look portable, aren't they?
amazing project!


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hallelujah
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Reged: 07/14/06

Loc: North Star over Colorado
Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: Rich V.]
      #5638742 - 01/23/13 11:36 AM

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=808439

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richsvt
sage


Reged: 01/09/09

Loc: North Shore of Boston
Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: hallelujah]
      #5639267 - 01/23/13 05:17 PM

makes anything I have look like a toy.

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PhilCo126
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Reged: 01/14/05

Loc: coastline of Belgium
Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: richsvt]
      #5643798 - 01/26/13 04:48 AM

Check the vendor topic:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5636500


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edwincjones
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Reged: 04/10/04

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: PhilCo126]
      #5643825 - 01/26/13 05:45 AM

why

edj


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edwincjones
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Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: edwincjones]
      #5643829 - 01/26/13 05:50 AM

I can understand going up to 150mm (I have one),
but have never understood the logic, reason, usefulness
of the larger BT due to the cost, duplication of optics
Why not just get a larger scope with binoviewer?

Other than uniqueness,
doing it because you have the money and can,
what is the advantage of this binocular over a telescope?

edj


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Joad
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Reged: 03/22/05

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: edwincjones]
      #5644450 - 01/26/13 01:55 PM

I have the same questions, but I think I know the answer. There is a certain mystique to binoculars (as opposed to telescopes) that those of us on this forum have personally experienced. It is indeed far more rational to get a big truss dob and use a binoviewer. You can even move the big truss dob to a dark site, while this ton-and-a-half binocular must be permanently placed in a professional quality observatory. And there also seems to be a sort of unofficial law of diminishing returns when it comes to what binoculars can manage relative to magnification and precise collimation.

So I think I this is a harmless indulgence (at $500,000 it is a lot cheaper than I would have expected) on the part of someone with good taste and lots of money. There are a lot worse things to indulge oneself with, and this one will probably be a good investment on top of everything else.


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GlennLeDrew
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Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: Joad]
      #5644484 - 01/26/13 02:18 PM

"...unofficial law of diminishing returns..." Unofficial indeed, for it does not apply.

If a gigantor of a binocular is not relevant, nor is any size bino. Whether big or small, one is using two eyes and hence enjoying the same gain in signal to noise. The improvement realized when going from, say, a 2" to a 4" bino is the same gain found when transitioning from a 6" to a 12" bino. It's all about ratios. And for given exit pupil diameter, the true bino always offers an image twice as bright as that of the BV-equipped mono job. The humongous bino is quite as relevant as any other size.


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Joad
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Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5644512 - 01/26/13 02:34 PM

Ah, but I'm not referring to the precisions of optical law; I'm referring to the fact that, say, a 100mm binocular telescope (like my BT) simply cannot manage the magnification of a good quality 100mm refractor, and is hugely sensitive to the slightest collimation offsets in a way that the telescope isn't.

I expect that this custom 12 inch binocular will be built with the intention of being so mechanically and optically perfect that it can perform equally with respect to a mid-sized telescope (I count 12" as mid-sized), but I wouldn't be surprised if the final result was not able to achieve such a level of perfection.

Some evidence for my expectations lies in the reviews I've seen of the giant reflector binoculars made by JMI. They are definitely not high magnification instruments, though their aperture is capable of very high magnification in a telescope.


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edwincjones
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Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5644518 - 01/26/13 02:38 PM

Quote:

"...unofficial law of diminishing returns..." Unofficial indeed, for it does not apply.

If a gigantor of a binocular is not relevant, nor is any size bino. Whether big or small, one is using two eyes and hence enjoying the same gain in signal to noise. The improvement realized when going from, say, a 2" to a 4" bino is the same gain found when transitioning from a 6" to a 12" bino. It's all about ratios. And for given exit pupil diameter, the true bino always offers an image twice as bright as that of the BV-equipped mono job. The humongous bino is quite as relevant as any other size.




ok-I can see this

having the 12" binoculars are no more extreme to me
than me having 25x150s are to many others

thanks Glenn for the insight


edj


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: hallelujah]
      #5644526 - 01/26/13 02:40 PM

Quote:

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=808439




WOW, It really is for sale. I thought is was made for someone or some observatory.


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: edwincjones]
      #5644531 - 01/26/13 02:43 PM

Quote:

I can understand going up to 150mm (I have one),
but have never understood the logic, reason, usefulness
of the larger BT due to the cost, duplication of optics
Why not just get a larger scope with binoviewer?

Other than uniqueness,
doing it because you have the money and can,
what is the advantage of this binocular over a telescope?

edj




Wouldn't it have much wider TFOV for the aperture (than binoviewing with equivalent aperture)?


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: Joad]
      #5644544 - 01/26/13 02:49 PM

Quote:

Ah, but I'm not referring to the precisions of optical law; I'm referring to the fact that, say, a 100mm binocular telescope (like my BT) simply cannot manage the magnification of a good quality 100mm refractor, and is hugely sensitive to the slightest collimation offsets in a way that the telescope isn't.

I expect that this custom 12 inch binocular will be built with the intention of being so mechanically and optically perfect that it can perform equally with respect to a mid-sized telescope (I count 12" as mid-sized), but I wouldn't be surprised if the final result was not able to achieve such a level of perfection.

Some evidence for my expectations lies in the reviews I've seen of the giant reflector binoculars made by JMI. They are definitely not high magnification instruments, though their aperture is capable of very high magnification in a telescope.




Isn't the reason why people choose binos for the wide views (as mentioned binoviewers provide narrow views).


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EdZ
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Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5644547 - 01/26/13 02:50 PM

depends on the f# of the scope being used to binoview and whether or not it has been designed (shortened as some are) to accomodate a binoviewer witthout the need for an OCS. If you were trying to use a scope/binoviewer to do this you would most certainly design in tose accomodations. In which case, fov then becomes a limitation of the eyepices that can be used. There are binoviewers that will allow use of a 45mm field stop. So, I would say this can easily be accomplished with a scope binoviewer combo. An 18" f/4 scope with a 45mm clear aperure binoviewer would easily accomodate the same field of view, at a fraction of the cost.

edz


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edwincjones
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Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5644720 - 01/26/13 04:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=808439




WOW, It really is for sale. I thought is was made for someone or some observatory.




I am waiting for the "no reserve" auction

edj


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Mark9473
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Reged: 07/21/05

Loc: 51°N 4°E
Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5644793 - 01/26/13 05:36 PM

Quote:

WOW, It really is for sale. I thought is was made for someone or some observatory.



The one that's finished now isn't for sale, it's going to China, but they're offering to build you another one by 2015.


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edwincjones
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Reged: 04/10/04

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: Mark9473]
      #5645123 - 01/26/13 08:58 PM

it is really not that bad
only 35% down and
time payments over the next 2-3 years
let's see
-$175,000 down
-about $13,000 month x 24 months + any interest


edj


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GlennLeDrew
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Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: edwincjones]
      #5645311 - 01/27/13 12:05 AM

An arbitrarily large bino need not impose any particular difficulty whatsoever as regards similarity of image scale and collimation.

If we allow magnification to differ by 1-2%, as is the case for small binos, the allowable errors on radii of curvature simply scale in proportion, which poses no problem at all in fabrication.

Collimation is never problematic, no matter the magnification, when on-the-fly adjustment is afforded the user. Adherence to basic engineering practice for the avoidance of any significant differential flexure assures reliable performance.


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edwincjones
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Reged: 04/10/04

Re: 12" Binocular Telescope on Refractors new [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5645524 - 01/27/13 06:11 AM

Glenn,

that said,

what would one do with a 12" that could not be done with 4" or 6" binoculars?

when I have gotten larger binoculars,
there has always been a goal
-the Ms I couldnot find with smaller
-the AL H400s

I would guess better reach for comets,
galaxy groups, smaller open clusters
other objects better seen with binoculars than scopes?



edj


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