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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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ccs_hello
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Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new
      #5637890 - 01/22/13 10:28 PM

http://www.chipworks.com/blog/recentteardowns/2013/01/08/inside-the-nikon-d52...

For its main stream DSLRs, SONY CCD --> (rumored) Renesas CMOS --> SONY CMOS ----- now Toshiba CMOS. E.g., "Toshiba 5105" used in D5200.

Clear Skies!

ccs_hello


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nofxrx
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #5637965 - 01/22/13 11:05 PM

Just the D5200 has this new Toshiba.
But it does look like Toshiba is trying to get into the image sensor business....
Guess that puts a hold on getting a D5200 as a backup crop and video rig until I see some data on the performance of this sensor...

If you look at the same site under "recent teardowns", you can see the D600 which DOES use the 24Mp SONY CMOS! the same one that is used in the new Sony A99, RX1, etc..
Brilliant 'little' sensor

Cheers


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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: nofxrx]
      #5638142 - 01/23/13 01:06 AM

The D5100/D7000 also uses a Sony CMOS sensor which, in benchmark tests, blew the barn doors off of the 5DMkII

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mpgxsvcd
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5638856 - 01/23/13 12:42 PM

The Olympus OMD EM-5 uses an m4/3s variation of the Sony sensor and the Panasonic GH3 is rumored to use that sensor as well.

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guyroch
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5638933 - 01/23/13 01:20 PM

Quote:

The D5100/D7000 also uses a Sony CMOS sensor which, in benchmark tests, blew the barn doors off of the 5DMkII




I totally agree.

I have both the D5100 and D7000 and a 10 minute dark frame at 20 Celsius shows next to no noise at all. Their sensors are freak'in awesome!

Guylain


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ccs_hello
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: guyroch]
      #5639620 - 01/23/13 09:56 PM

Per http://www.chipworks.com/blog/technologyblog/2012/10/23/full-frame-dslr-camer... from Chipworks,

D3 & D700 (FX), D3S (FX), D3100 (DX), D3200 (DX), D4 (FX) use sensors designed by Nikon and fabricated by Renesas.

D2X (DX - IMX007), D90 & D5000 (DX - IMX038), D7000 & D5100 (DX - IMX071), D800 (FX - IMX094), D600 (FX - IMX128) use SONY CMOS image sensors.

D5200 (DX) uses Toshiba TCM5105 CMOS image sensor.

The first link is part I of the article.
Part II: http://www.chipworks.com/blog/technologyblog/2012/10/24/full-frame-dslr-camer...

Part III:
http://www.chipworks.com/blog/technologyblog/2012/10/25/full-frame-dslr-camer...

Clear Skies!

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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: guyroch]
      #5640025 - 01/24/13 05:12 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The D5100/D7000 also uses a Sony CMOS sensor which, in benchmark tests, blew the barn doors off of the 5DMkII




I totally agree.

I have both the D5100 and D7000 and a 10 minute dark frame at 20 Celsius shows next to no noise at all. Their sensors are freak'in awesome!

Guylain




And yet people seem to still think Canon's the holy grail in terms of AP...

If people truly gave Nikon a shot and tested a D5100/D7000 out, they'd never go back.


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mmalik
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier new [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5640098 - 01/24/13 07:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The D5100/D7000 also uses a Sony CMOS sensor which, in benchmark tests, blew the barn doors off of the 5DMkII




I totally agree.

I have both the D5100 and D7000 and a 10 minute dark frame at 20 Celsius shows next to no noise at all. Their sensors are freak'in awesome!

Guylain




And yet people seem to still think Canon's the holy grail in terms of AP...

If people truly gave Nikon a shot and tested a D5100/D7000 out, they'd never go back.




The debate of dark frame noise is an academic exercise; technologically we know Canon and Nikon are at par or can be at par if they wanted to. Canon has something to show for 2 to 0 at least in coming up with cameras designed specifically for astro imaging; until Nikon creates an ‘a’ version of their model/s, status quo is going to prevail (and it will remain a measuring criteria how committed Nikon is to AP). Thx


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s58y
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5640144 - 01/24/13 08:02 AM

Quote:



And yet people seem to still think Canon's the holy grail in terms of AP...

If people truly gave Nikon a shot and tested a D5100/D7000 out, they'd never go back.




One of the problems with Nikon in the 46.5mm lens register, which makes it harder to use old camera lenses for imaging. Of course, a this will change whenever APS-C mirrorless cameras that have good tethering support finally come out.


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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier [Re: mmalik]
      #5640544 - 01/24/13 12:12 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The D5100/D7000 also uses a Sony CMOS sensor which, in benchmark tests, blew the barn doors off of the 5DMkII




I totally agree.

I have both the D5100 and D7000 and a 10 minute dark frame at 20 Celsius shows next to no noise at all. Their sensors are freak'in awesome!

Guylain




And yet people seem to still think Canon's the holy grail in terms of AP...

If people truly gave Nikon a shot and tested a D5100/D7000 out, they'd never go back.




The debate of dark frame noise is an academic exercise; technologically we know Canon and Nikon are at par or can be at par if they wanted to. Canon has something to show for 2 to 0 at least in coming up with cameras designed specifically for astro imaging; until Nikon creates an ‘a’ version of their model/s, status quo is going to prevail (and it will remain a measuring criteria how committed Nikon is to AP). Thx




I don't think it should be a matter of how committed Nikon is - or is not - in terms of astro-photography camera platforms, insomuch as it has everything to do with the perception that Canons are the Holy Grail despite four of Nikon's latest camera models blowing the barn doors off of their direct Canon competitors. The D5100/D7000 vastly outperformed the higher-end Canon 5DMkII in every benchmark test aside from video and in noise reduction - especially in low-light, high-ISO settings, both walked away from Canon.

DxO Labs, in fact, gave its sensor a score of 80, which was far above the ratings held by much more expensive Canon competitors.

That should say something, IMO.


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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier [Re: s58y]
      #5640550 - 01/24/13 12:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:



And yet people seem to still think Canon's the holy grail in terms of AP...

If people truly gave Nikon a shot and tested a D5100/D7000 out, they'd never go back.




One of the problems with Nikon in the 46.5mm lens register, which makes it harder to use old camera lenses for imaging. Of course, a this will change whenever APS-C mirrorless cameras that have good tethering support finally come out.




Not at all true.

I shoot with older lenses on my D5100 and my images come out perfectly fine. In fact, I just shot two images concurrently of the Horsehead and Great Orion Nebula with a 25-year-old Spiratone 500mm mirror lens and a photo I took of the Andromeda Galaxy was shot using a Craig Optics 80-200mm zoom lens that came with a Nikkormat FTn 35mm SLR I purchased last summer.


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Jim Chung
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5640741 - 01/24/13 01:49 PM

I agree completely with Steve's assessment but perhaps I could clarify a few points?

Although it was nice that Canon acknowledged the astro community with the "a" models, they didn't really go far enough. The IR transmission profile was altered too conservatively and the AA filter retained leading most imagers to still modify their own cameras for better response. Canon should have offered their own version of the Astronomik Clip In IR cut filter bundled with the "a" models so that no custom white rebalance would be needed for regular photography and a more radical IR transmission profile then allowed. Perhaps Nikon saw the sales response and decided against offering a dedicated astro model.

Although the Nikon flange to sensor distance is too long to engineer an adaptor for other camera make's lenses, the T thread lenses from the 1960s and 70s will still work and I believe this is what Steve was shooting with.


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Tonk
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier [Re: Jim Chung]
      #5640905 - 01/24/13 03:18 PM

There also has to be a cricital mass shift in the AP image acquision software to add good support for Nikon cameras.

Also there is still a lot of lag from the days that Nikon cameras automatically filtered out stars via in-built noise reduction and all the hacks required to defeat this. That started the "Nikon is no good" perception over 8 years ago.


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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier [Re: Tonk]
      #5640965 - 01/24/13 03:56 PM

I think that Guylain (BackyardEOS author) is working on a companion software to control Nikon DSLRs due out later this year!

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Footbag
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier [Re: Jim Chung]
      #5641127 - 01/24/13 05:41 PM

Quote:

I think that Guylain (BackyardEOS author) is working on a companion software to control Nikon DSLRs due out later this year!




I've heard that as well. There's also a guy doing mono conversions for Nikon's.

Truth is, there are two people within this thread who could do more for Nikon astro-imaging then Nikon could/would do themselves.


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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier [Re: Tonk]
      #5641153 - 01/24/13 05:53 PM

Quote:

There also has to be a cricital mass shift in the AP image acquision software to add good support for Nikon cameras.

Also there is still a lot of lag from the days that Nikon cameras automatically filtered out stars via in-built noise reduction and all the hacks required to defeat this. That started the "Nikon is no good" perception over 8 years ago.




And that "star-eating noise reduction" was completely eliminated upon the release of the D5100/D7000.


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nofxrx
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5641480 - 01/24/13 09:01 PM

It was eliminated WELL before the D5100/D7000..
In any case, it doesnt matter now anyways!

In fact, there is proof out there that SOME Canon models actually DO this! And have done this over the years with several models..
I dont want to start a debate or anything..
Just trying to show that people have been stuck on the "Holy Grail=Canon" for reasons that are very outdated and of no consequence now!
Use whatever camera you have/can afford/feel comfortable using, and just get out there and shoot! Who cares if one is slightly better than the next...it is a never ending debate..and is really splitting hairs in some cases..

Cheers!


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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier [Re: Footbag]
      #5642740 - 01/25/13 02:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think that Guylain (BackyardEOS author) is working on a companion software to control Nikon DSLRs due out later this year!




I've heard that as well. There's also a guy doing mono conversions for Nikon's.

Truth is, there are two people within this thread who could do more for Nikon astro-imaging then Nikon could/would do themselves.




Yes this is correct; BackyardNIK is in the works.

Guylain


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SteveRosenow
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier [Re: Footbag]
      #5642896 - 01/25/13 04:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think that Guylain (BackyardEOS author) is working on a companion software to control Nikon DSLRs due out later this year!




I've heard that as well. There's also a guy doing mono conversions for Nikon's.

Truth is, there are two people within this thread who could do more for Nikon astro-imaging then Nikon could/would do themselves.




I would have no problem stepping into a role of spokesman for Nikon in terms of astrophotography. It says something when you use a camera whose sensor outranks Canons by a wide margin.


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TopherTheME
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Re: Nikon DSLR is having a new image sensor supplier [Re: SteveRosenow]
      #5643061 - 01/25/13 05:59 PM

You all wanna talk about how Nikon outperforms Canon in terms of image noise and sensitivity? How about the camera brand that outperforms them all, PENTAX! The K-5 (II, IIs) outperforms ALL Canons and the D5100 along with the D7000 in terms of noise and sensitivity and really overall image quality. Its also weather sealed and cold proof. It has in camera image stabilization (YEAH image stabilization with your telescope! not that you would need it).

And for those of you that like to use old manual lenses, Pentax hasn't changed their mount in 30+ years. That means you can use any K-mount lens Pentax has every made.

Really, the only reason not buy a Pentax (or even Nikon) over a Canon is that you can't use BYEOS and those clip in filters may not work. There just really is no other selling point to Canon cameras for AP.

And did I mention the K-5 IIs has no AA filter allowing for sharper (higher resolution) images?

Edited by TopherTheME (01/25/13 06:00 PM)


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