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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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John K
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Vernon BC Canada
Thinking of selling my 31Nagler
      #5643550 - 01/25/13 11:10 PM

I have a 21 ethos as well as a 31mm Nagler.I have been toying with two possibilitys.

One:
Sell the 31mm Nagler and get a 41mm Panoptice to work better with the 21 E

Two:
Sell the 21E keep the31MM Nagler and get a 17mm E to fill the gap.

What do you think?
This would be for my 15"f5 Dob FL 1905mm
I would be using a paracorr for them.So add the 15%

This would also have to be good with the eyepieces I already have 13E 10E and so on.


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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: John K]
      #5643644 - 01/26/13 12:38 AM

My dob, with Paracorr, has a focal length of 1825mm, so close to yours.
I own both the 31 Nagler and the 21 Ethos.

The field of view of the 31 is larger than the 21 (16% wider), and that matters on some objects (Veil nebula, California nebula, North America nebula, Perseus Double Cluster, etc.), and the magnification of the 31 is about 33% lower than the 21, which is not a real large difference, but not insignificant either.

Yet, like you, I wonder about keeping both. Especially because, with my 61 year old eyes, the 21 seems sharper due to its smaller exit pupil. And, it has a wider apparent field of view (which I like). And the darker background is better on many objects, like star clusters and large nebulae.

The 41 Panoptic would produce too large an exit pupil in your scope, so that's not a practical alternative. Some people say the 17 Ethos is a better companion to the 31 Nagler. But then, if you use the 13E, the 17E is too close in magnification. Some other observers go directly from the 31 Nagler to the 13 Ethos and skip anything in between.

The 31N just has a special place in my heart because it replaced a 35 Panoptic and it improved the star images, increased the magnification, and gave me more field all at the same time. Retreating to the 21 Ethos would be a little like settling for the field of the 35 Panoptic all over again.

So, sleep on it. I think there's a place for both. At least, that's how I feel this week.


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crazyqban
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/16/08

Loc: Miami, Florida
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: Starman1]
      #5643698 - 01/26/13 01:40 AM

I have, use and like both. They are not going anywhere any time soon.

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Svezda
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/01/07

Loc: Texas
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: crazyqban]
      #5643727 - 01/26/13 02:31 AM

Unless finances are just so tight you have to limit yourself, I'd definitely not sell the 21E or 31NT5 and I'd also try to save up to get the 17E. I would NOT get the 41Pan, for the same reason mentioned - too large exit pupil but even if technically it weren't too large, if you have any astigmatism at all, like I do (even corrected with lenses) it seems to me that even moderately large exit pupil eyepieces, anything 5mm or more, produce soft, mushy star images. I even see this with the 31NT5 (due to my eyes, not the ep optics) in my f/4.5 scope. It disappointed me since I thought that this ep would be my ultimate deep sky eyepiece, probably forcing me to sell the 30XW. Haven't been able to bring myself to do that yet (anytime I convince myself to buy something because I will sell an ep to make up for most of the cost, it doesn't happen).

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: Svezda]
      #5643780 - 01/26/13 04:03 AM

A couple of thoughts:

- Assuming your pupil dilates to 5.4mm, the 31mm Nagler will be more than twice as bright as the 21mm Ethos. This brightness can be helpful when using narrow band or notch filters.

- I not sure what the clear aperture of the type 1 Paracorr is, it might be that it is not large enough to handle the 46 mm field stop of the 41mm Panoptic.

Jon


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Hermie
sage
*****

Reged: 04/20/05

Loc: Cloudy HKG
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5643853 - 01/26/13 06:41 AM

John,

I've heard of a couple of guys selling their 31 Naglers.... Most of them bought a replacement within a year. Just sayin'.

Hermie


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Jeff Morgan
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 09/28/03

Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: Hermie]
      #5643992 - 01/26/13 09:07 AM

Quote:

John,

I've heard of a couple of guys selling their 31 Naglers.... Most of them bought a replacement within a year. Just sayin'.

Hermie




Optically I love the 31 Nagler but have never been happy with the weight, and have actively looked for a replacement.

After five challengers, 31 Nagler is still king of the hill. And it probably always will be the anchor point for my collection, until Tele Vue revises the design with smaller glass.

Now that the Delos line appears to be done ... perhaps?


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turtle86
Pooh-Bah Everywhere Else
*****

Reged: 10/09/06

Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: Hermie]
      #5644000 - 01/26/13 09:11 AM

My 21mm Ethos definitely gets a bit more use than my 31mm Nagler, and my dilated pupils aren't getting any bigger, so I've also given thought to selling my 31mm Nagler. Yet I can't bring myself to pull the trigger and don't think I ever will.

As Don says, the extra FOV of the 31mm Nagler makes a difference with the larger DSO's like the Veil, North America Nebula and Double Cluster. As Jon says, its larger and brighter exit pupil can be helpful with filters. To give an example, with an h-beta filter I can usually see the Horsehead Nebula through the 31mm Nagler without too much difficulty but the few times I tried using the 21mm Ethos I had no luck. I suspect I could see it through the Ethos on a night of exceptional transparency but here in Florida those nights are very few and far between.

I may only prefer the 31mm Nagler over the 21mm Ethos for a relatively small handful of objects, but what a handful they are!


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John K
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Vernon BC Canada
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: turtle86]
      #5644203 - 01/26/13 11:12 AM

You guys may be right.It is no small feat for me to save up for these gems.I may be doing myself a disservice to let one of them go.Maybe I would be better off getting the Paracorr 2 and selling my type 1.

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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: John K]
      #5644247 - 01/26/13 11:41 AM

I have 20mm 10AFOV ES, 30mm 82AFOV Meade, and 40mm 70AFOV University Optics and love them all. I use which ever frames them best. Large objects need to go wider, and smaller/closer objects can go higher power with greater contrast (darker background).

P,S, They now have a 25mm 100AFOV ES and in a few years may have 3" diam eyepieces for even wider TFOVs than listed above!


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faackanders2
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/28/11

Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5644270 - 01/26/13 11:52 AM

Quote:

I have 20mm 10AFOV ES, 30mm 82AFOV Meade, and 40mm 70AFOV University Optics and love them all. I use which ever frames them best. Large objects need to go wider, and smaller/closer objects can go higher power with greater contrast (darker background).

P,S, They now have a 25mm 100AFOV ES and in a few years may have 3" diam eyepieces for even wider TFOVs than listed above!




Example, just last Tuesday with 40mm 70AFOV in my 1.5" f4.1 dob I could see Jupiter with 2-4 bands and 3moons plus our gibbous moon all in the same FOV. In the 30mm 82AOV I could only see half or 2/3 of our moon with Jupiter and it's moon in the same FOV; hence I didn't even try the 20mm 100 AFOV. Now if I was 2 hours earlier when they were closest ...

Many on this site preach exit pupil, but sometimes you just want wider views to fit more in view. The future 3" eyepiece may be a game changer for wider views, just like the 2", and 1.25" were in the past.


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csrlice12
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: faackanders2]
      #5644275 - 01/26/13 11:59 AM

Buy them all, that makes selecting easy......

Personally, I'd keep the 31mm Nagler as the low power wide FOV for the Veil, NA Nebula, Andromedea, etc....


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Jim Romanski
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/02/05

Loc: Guilford, Connecticut
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: John K]
      #5644283 - 01/26/13 12:02 PM

I have
31mm Nagler
21mm Ethos
17mm Ethos
13mm Ethos
8mm Ethos
6mm Ethos
3.7mm Ehtos SX

The jump from the 31mm to the 21mm isn't that great but I find I use them both. The 31mm gives me the largest true field and fairly low power so I use it all the time. The 21mm is spectacular.

I bought them as they came out so I have the 17mm which I tend not to use much in the dobs since I have the 21mm. I've been thinking about selling it myself. I do find that I use it in my little AT72 refractor. The 21mm is just plain huge but the 17 isn't so big and with such a small scope and short focal length the FOV is large even with the 17mm.

If I had your lineup I think the 13mm and 10mm are kind of close. The jump from the 10mm to the 6mm is a lot. I find going from the 13mm to the 8mm to the 6mm works very nicely.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #5645008 - 01/26/13 07:49 PM

Quote:


Optically I love the 31 Nagler but have never been happy with the weight, and have actively looked for a replacement.




Jeff, if you are otherwise happy with the 31mm Nagler but unhappy with it's weight, there is a simple cure.

Get some 1/8th inch lead sheet. Cut a strip 10 inches x 2 inches and wrap it around the eyepiece, securing it wish a zip tie...

That will add just about a pound to the weight, that should be enough to keep you happy.



Second solution:

Buy an 20mm Type 2 Nagler. Then you can think about whether it is too heavy instead of the lighter 31mm.

Jon

Edited by Jon Isaacs (01/26/13 07:51 PM)


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GeneT
Ely Kid
*****

Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: John K]
      #5645058 - 01/26/13 08:17 PM

I use my 22mm Nagler far more than my 31 on an F5, 12.5 inch telescope. However, the 31 is such a great eyepiece that I could never sell it. I like having it in the tray of options.

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crazyqban
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/16/08

Loc: Miami, Florida
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: Jim Romanski]
      #5645072 - 01/26/13 08:21 PM

Quote:

I have
31mm Nagler
21mm Ethos
17mm Ethos
13mm Ethos
8mm Ethos
6mm Ethos
3.7mm Ehtos SX




Wow Jim, I have the exact same setup except I have the 4.7 SX instead of the 3.7 SX. Cool


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John K
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Vernon BC Canada
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: crazyqban]
      #5645348 - 01/27/13 01:08 AM

Maybe I should just save up and get the 8mmE and leave well enough alone at the low end of the scale.

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crazyqban
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/16/08

Loc: Miami, Florida
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: John K]
      #5645399 - 01/27/13 02:48 AM

John, I think that is a good idea and eventually you can fill the gap between the 13 & 21 E with a 17E. I really like my 17E and use it quite a bit. I really like how M42 is framed in with my 16" F4. I am currently thinking about getting a used 10E but they never seem to come up for sale. VIVA ETHOS!!!

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gaz-in
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 12/17/07

Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: crazyqban]
      #5645534 - 01/27/13 06:50 AM

One could always sell 31 Nagler and buy a 30mm ES 82 to fill the spot at less capital investment....

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Paul G
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: Thinking of selling my 31Nagler new [Re: John K]
      #5645602 - 01/27/13 08:25 AM

Quote:

Maybe I should just save up and get the 8mmE and leave well enough alone at the low end of the scale.




Sounds like the best plan.


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