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smallscopefanLeo
sage
*****

Reged: 01/23/11

Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: iceblaze]
      #5656514 - 02/01/13 02:51 PM

Hi Terry, I don't know you but I am happy to see that you defended yourself in a smart fashion here with stunning photos of some projects, which so many posters on this board here can only dream about. Don't listen to the haters. None of them have made things that have been used to success by NASA or University departments. I can't believe that our own astro community would defame and cannibalize each other like this. Glad to see the vendor bashing moderated. It is one thing to have a grievance about service and quality, quite another to drag someone right through the mud, I am not referring to the OP, but to some of the bandwagon jumper-on-ers. It is almost like they want to attempt to destroy this man's business, just sad to read. Doubt it will affect him though, doing work for JPL (I just read that.. crikey). I wish you continued success and good business to you sir as we need more men like you in our society who build things, rather than the so many out there who just seem to want to tear other people and their work down.

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cheapersleeper
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 01/22/10

Loc: Sachse TX
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: smallscopefanLeo]
      #5656528 - 02/01/13 02:55 PM

Would not this all have been avoided had a dissatisfied customers concerns been dealt with?

B


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PhaedrusUpshaw
super member
*****

Reged: 04/21/12

Loc: Southwestern Indiana
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: iceblaze]
      #5656545 - 02/01/13 03:04 PM

Quote:

This thread is now re-opened. You will notice that almost nothing has changed. We believe that both parties need to be heard here, so long as everyone can play nice. This means we expect constructive, respectful posts, and not vendor bashing. We will also not tolerate any vendor pushing as both of these are direct violations of our ToS. So please, everyone play nice, and if Dr. Hayes and Opticraft wish to work this out publicly, and in a respectful manner, then we have no problems with it.

Thanks,

-James




Good call James, flame wars suck...


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Old Rookie
sage


Reged: 09/05/08

Loc: North Central Ohio
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: PhaedrusUpshaw]
      #5656604 - 02/01/13 03:39 PM

I've really enjoyed reading these comments. I especially enjoyed looking at the photos provided by Optic Craft. They appear to be well done. I wonder why the OP received equipment from Optic Craft that looked such as it did? Why is the quality that Optic Craft talks about not evident? Does the large customer receive a better quality instrument than the smaller customer? Is Optic Craft really proud of what they sent out? Did they send it out thinking that the OP would be glad just to have it? Did Optic Craft not recognize that it was a piece of ****? If they did, why did they send it out in the first place? Just wondering!!

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Chemisttree
member
*****

Reged: 02/05/08

Loc: San Antonio, TX
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: iceblaze]
      #5656670 - 02/01/13 04:17 PM

Request that this thread be moved to the vendor forum. Should this matter ever have been presented as an article?

My 2c, worth every penny too.


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andysea
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 09/03/10

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: Chemisttree]
      #5656699 - 02/01/13 04:32 PM

I am a little confused or perhaps I am missing the point. How are all those crednentials and nice pictures going to make the delivered drive and documented emails any better?.

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smallscopefanLeo
sage
*****

Reged: 01/23/11

Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: Chemisttree]
      #5656701 - 02/01/13 04:32 PM

Quote:

Request that this thread be moved to the vendor forum. Should this matter ever have been presented as an article?

My 2c, worth every penny too.




I feel that is was in poor taste to present this as an article. There are some legitimate issues raised in my mind, but at the same time many of the complaints had to do with cosmetics which don't appear as though they would have any bearing on the functionality of the product. It is one thing to warn others of a bad experience, but quite another to go out of one's way to make somebody look as bad as can possibly be. There are numerous sides to every story. And for those who might wonder, I have zero connection to this company, and only recall coming across a reference or two to them on here over the years. My only clock drive is a NexStar GT goto mount. I don't really care what the parts inside look like, so long as it works. Sorry but I just have little patience for this sort of behavior online where others are trashed. It is like bullying.


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Footbag
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/13/09

Loc: Scranton, PA
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: smallscopefanLeo]
      #5656731 - 02/01/13 04:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Request that this thread be moved to the vendor forum. Should this matter ever have been presented as an article?

My 2c, worth every penny too.




I feel that is was in poor taste to present this as an article. There are some legitimate issues raised in my mind, and at the same time many of the complaints had to do with cosmetics which don't appear as though they would have any bearing on the functionality of the product. It is one thing to warn others of a bad experience, but quite another to go out of one's way to make somebody look as bad as can possibly be. There are numerous sides to every story. And for those who might wonder, I have zero connection to this company, and only recall coming across a reference or two to them on here over the years. My only computerized clock drive is a NexStar GT. I don't really care what the parts inside look like, so long as it works.




I saw the cosmetics as a small problem. The worm being crooked and the quality of the spur gear, are the major issues. Look at the spur, would that even work? It wouldn't for imaging. As others have said, if the tolerance on a single bolt hole was off, that would be enough justification to reject the part; as you would expect NASA or JPL to do. The problems here are numerous and obvious.

If a machine shop provides custom machining to spec, the the custom work is their product. I don't see a better place to review them, then in CN's review section.


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smallscopefanLeo
sage
*****

Reged: 01/23/11

Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: Footbag]
      #5656762 - 02/01/13 04:56 PM

Fair enough, I am content with agreeing to disagree on the proper place for this discussion, while I agree with you that some of the machining there does look sloppy. In the article the author notes that:

"He did eventually offer to exchange the spur gear if I would return the unit to him and pay all shipping. At that point, I refused to pay him anything - for shipping or anything else - and I gave up dealing with him."

It looks like there was a bit of back and forth, and like the manufacturer was being stubborn perhaps. Speculation on my part that perhaps I best not venture into. Maybe if the author pushed a bit more he could have gotten a refund, or not have to pay shipping on the exchange, but I agree fully that a buyer should not have to do that in today's economy. Still not a good enough excuse for smearing someone's reputation online in my mind, a growing problem these days. Many of us here are emboldened by our relative anonymity (not referring to the reviewer of course but myself and the rest of us armchair star commandos), and I am no exception to that. I try to be mostly meek but am open to being put in check should I overstep my bounds.

I am 100% for open and honest discussion. But not defamation of a character or business based on one example here. Since this is already in the process of being aired out, let's hear from all sides involved. I don't have a horse in the race, I just care about what is overall fair. I would be very hurt personally to be talked about this way if I felt that I didn't have it coming to me.


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andysea
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 09/03/10

Loc: Seattle, WA
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: smallscopefanLeo]
      #5656763 - 02/01/13 04:56 PM

I disagree. It appears they the design wasn't executed as per the construction documents.

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okieav8rAdministrator
I'd rather be flying!
*****

Reged: 03/01/09

Loc: Oklahoma!
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: andysea]
      #5656828 - 02/01/13 05:36 PM

I don't feel that the OP did anything inappropriate with regard to writing an article about his experience with the vendor. Apparently, neither did Cloudy Nights. If I am not mistaken, articles are submitted and then vetted by CN before they are posted.

Both parties have had their say, and those who have read this thread can make up their own minds.


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jhayes_tucson
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 08/26/12

Loc: Bend, OR
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: iceblaze]
      #5657062 - 02/01/13 08:04 PM

Iím glad to see Mr. Clinardís respond; however, I want to clarify that there is no ďmisunderstandingĒ between us. Mr. Clinard accepted an order for a drive with custom specifications. The unit delivered did not meet the specifications we agreed to or my expectations based on his representation of his capabilities and what he promised to deliver. My review was not of any work that Mr. Clinard did for NASA/Godard, Roger Angel, AWR Technology Systems, or any other piece of equipment shown in the pictures that he has uploaded to this forum. My review was vey specific to the product that he delivered and all of the photographs accurately show the condition of the product as it came out of the box. My comments in the review are virtually the same ones that I made directly to him when I received the product and Iíve told you how he responded. Iíve moved on and the sole intent of my review was to provide a community service with some well-documented information about a product and a vendor. The community at large is better off if we share these kinds of experiences--both good and bad. I donít have any hidden agenda. I gave Mr. Clinard ample opportunity to resolve this issue and he didn't take it so I originally had no intent of trying to get it resolved here. However, Mr. Clinard has privately contacted me to discuss how we might re-open our discussion. So, for now, Iíll take my discussion with him offline and if he wants to do the right thing, I will be the first to come back here to congratulate him publicly.

- John


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iceblaze
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/15/11

Loc: 33.9¬į N, 118.4¬į W Lawndale, ...
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: jhayes_tucson]
      #5657068 - 02/01/13 08:11 PM

Hello John,

Glad to hear you guys are working it out offline, and that he has come back to the table .

-James


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rogercelliott
sage


Reged: 09/19/08

Loc: Redding, CA
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: iceblaze]
      #5657518 - 02/02/13 02:17 AM

I bought my OCM drives (Both RA and Dec) back in 1991 and I was quite pleased with their accuracy - especially the RA drive which tracked with very little need to for correction. Sorry to see and hear that he made a bad drive.

Cheers
Roger


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psi_chemie
sage
*****

Reged: 05/01/11

Loc: Leawood, KS, USA
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: rogercelliott]
      #5657784 - 02/02/13 09:35 AM

Wow Terry it looks like you make a ton of cool stuff. I hope to get into this business someday. This is a great lesson for me. I hope you get it worked out because in my honest opinion, the part did not appear to meet spec, seems like people were having bad days and a personality clash prevented this from being resolved easily.

Thank you everyone for posting this is a valuable learning experience, hope it ends with no hard feelings.

Kind Regards


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atuk
journeyman
*****

Reged: 01/06/11

Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #5658271 - 02/02/13 02:30 PM

The review with evidence is conclusive. This product should be refunded with an apology.
The patent process is specific and requires proof when applying for patents.
Thank you for bringing the QC for OC to our attention.

Albert
Non-Profit Organization

4, 5, 6, 8 inch scopes and looking for 12 inch
The usual 5 foam cases with eyepieces and filters.
T3i astrophotography
Minitower and LXD55 modified mounts


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Agatha
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/04/12

Loc: Coulee Region, Wisconsin
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: atuk]
      #5665538 - 02/06/13 03:41 PM

What DID happen to the postings that are missing??? I have been reading this thread with interest from day one and am a little frustrated with the way this whole thing has been handled. On second thought, I am VERY frustrated. To let this go on as long as it has is ridiculous. I love quality and perfection as much as anybody. But, I have watched CN members act as judge, jury and executioners. I am ashamed.

And, please, do not tell me what I do or do not understand about the issue.
I love Cloudy Nights, but this has gone too far.

Will my post be deleted now too? I sincerely hope not.

Best, Linda B.


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Chucky
sage
*****

Reged: 04/16/10

Loc: Dublin, Ohio
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: Agatha]
      #5665655 - 02/06/13 04:58 PM

<< reading this thread with interest from day one and am a little frustrated >>

<< ..... as it has is ridiculous. >>

Just curious - if you were (and are) so upset over this, why are you spending so much time reading it? Why not move on to other topics more pleasing to you and avoid the stress?


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Agatha
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/04/12

Loc: Coulee Region, Wisconsin
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: Chucky]
      #5667108 - 02/07/13 01:36 PM

Quote:

Just curious - if you were (and are) so upset over this, why are you spending so much time reading it? Why not move on to other topics more pleasing to you and avoid the stress?





Chucky,

I am here, I'm sure, for the same reason that everyone else is...for information. It certainly doesn't mean that one can't be frustrated.

If you have read the entire thread, which I'm assuming you have, you will notice that there are others who also have expressed their feelings. Are you going to tell them to move on also?

I had heard of Optic Craft many times on the forums here and thought it would be interesting to read a review.

Linda B.


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Agatha
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/04/12

Loc: Coulee Region, Wisconsin
Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review new [Re: Chucky]
      #5667127 - 02/07/13 01:52 PM

Quote:

the sole intent of my review was to provide a community service with some well-documented information about a product and a vendor. The community at large is better off if we share these kinds of experiences--both good and bad.




The above quote from the author of the review,Mr. John Hayes, is very appropriate. I thank him for the review. And I sincerely hope that the issue could be resolved amicably for both parties.

Best, Linda B.


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