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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! !
      #5647065 - 01/27/13 10:16 PM

A friend of mine looked down my OTA and said there is dust on your mirror and "Blew" down into my OTA and left little spit markes on my 4.5 primary mirror(the jerk!) So now how do I clean that crud off my mirror???

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Dennis_S253
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/22/11

Loc: West Central Florida
Re: How to clean primary mirror on AstroMaster 114 EQ. new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5647103 - 01/27/13 10:38 PM

There are some good ways to clean on you tube. There's also some good threads here on CN. Anyway, welcome to CN.

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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: How to clean primary mirror on AstroMaster 114 EQ. new [Re: Dennis_S253]
      #5647133 - 01/27/13 10:55 PM

Thanks will give YOUTUBE a try right now and see how that goes. What a mess...lol!

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: How to clean primary mirror on AstroMaster 114 EQ. new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5647159 - 01/27/13 11:12 PM

Quote:

A friend of mine looked down my OTA and said there is dust on your mirror and "Blew" down into my OTA and left little spit markes on my 4.5 primary mirror(the jerk!) So now how do I clean that crud off my mirror???




Cleaning a mirror has to be done carefully. The most important thing to understand is that telescope mirrors are first surface mirrors and the coating are quite soft. This is how I clean a mirror:

- Remove the cell from the telescope, remove the mirror from the mirror cell. Blow the dust off the mirror either with a bulb or with canned air. Do not use a brush.

- Prepare a clean sink or for a smaller mirror a large clean bowl. Rinse the mirror by running water across the surface. The soak the mirror in the bowl, clean cool water with a tad bit of dish soap. After some time, 10 to 20 minutes or less, rinse the mirror under the tap, rinse the mirror with distilled water and let dry.

If the mirror is still not clean, then I soak it and very carefully swab the surface with a bundle of about 6 surgical cotton balls. This is done under the water and the balls are just floated across the surface every so lightly.

Rinse, Rinse with distilled water. Tilt up in a safe place and let dry. A few remaining droplets may require dabbing dry.

Replace mirror in cell, making sure the clips are not pinching the mirror, reinstall the mirror cell in the scope, collimate and you are ready to go.

Jon


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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: How to clean primary mirror on AstroMaster 114 EQ. new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5647168 - 01/27/13 11:18 PM

Thanks I will give that a try. Just got this telescope and I tell you it is kind of scary doing all this but my mirror is a mess now with little bits of my friends spit on it. I just about flipped out when he did that! Hope it is a easy as you say.

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rob288
super member


Reged: 05/13/08

Loc: South Canterbury, New Zealand
Re: How to clean primary mirror on AstroMaster 114 EQ. new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5647266 - 01/28/13 12:43 AM

You will also need to collimate it again once you have it back in place.

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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: How to clean primary mirror on AstroMaster 114 EQ. new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5647343 - 01/28/13 02:03 AM

Removed miror cell just to see what I have to deal with here and then reinstalled mirror cell back to OTA until I have cleaning supplies ie: distilled water and surgical cotton balls. It was easy to remove mirror cell and have a look at "spit" blobs on the serface of mirror. So far so good for right now. How lightly should I torque down the clips to mirror for reinstall after wash??? Is there a nominal setting to start out with before I start lightly torqing down the mirror clips ie: a count of turns to mounting screws for even torque around the circumference of P-mirror?(can you tell I was a U.S. Army helicopter crew chief after a stent as a tank commander in the U.S. Army 1976 to 1997 LOL!) Because I don't want to over torque these and pinch mirror at all. I might as well go "all in" and and install the collimation target that came with my laser collimater in center of mirror while I've got the primary mirror out(this ought to be fun) so I can be as spot on as I can during collmation after I reinstall P-mirror.Looks like I have to do some "art work" cutting a paper circle template to center the "ring lable" target in the center of P-mirror. Any advice would really help me with this please. Actually this is a very intersting procedure and I know it's just one more step in building confidence in telescope maintenace that I will use in the future and can pass on to others.I just don't want to ruin my new telescope after only a month of ownership and operation and with clear weather on the way for next weekend out here. I'm dealing with an aluminum w/Sio2 optical coating on P-mirror and want to get this right the first time and not reuin the coatings on p-mirror if it can be helped. Also is there any cleaning of OTA and also the secondary mirror at this time with P-mirror cell out of the back of the OTA with out any distruction to my OTA or secondary mirror? Thanks for any help from anyone that can pitch in and take the time to advise me on this project. Thanks again.

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panhard
It's All Good
*****

Reged: 01/20/08

Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
Re: How to clean primary mirror on AstroMaster 114 EQ. new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5647775 - 01/28/13 10:42 AM

You should be just able to slip a credit card between the mirror and the clips when done. Don't over tighten or you will pinch the mirror.

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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: How to clean primary mirror on AstroMaster 114 EQ. new [Re: panhard]
      #5647844 - 01/28/13 11:13 AM

Ah...now witch screws do I untighten to remove mirror from cell once I have mirror cell out of the back of the OTA? the adjusting screws from back of cell or the little screws that are on the top of the clips themselves??? Thank you all for any help and can't wait to get this mirror clean and remounted and collimated so I can report back.

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Gert K A
sage


Reged: 07/16/12

Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Re: How to clean primary mirror on AstroMaster 114 EQ. new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5647874 - 01/28/13 11:25 AM

the little screws that are on the top of the clips themselves

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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: How to clean primary mirror on AstroMaster 114 EQ. new [Re: Gert K A]
      #5647890 - 01/28/13 11:33 AM

Thanks Gert KA. That is huge help to me(and others here I'm sure) Will keep you all posted om my patient who is in stable but guarded condition...lol"

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dpwoos
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 10/18/06

Loc: United States
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5648161 - 01/28/13 01:20 PM

Quote:

A friend of mine looked down my OTA and said there is dust on your mirror and "Blew" down into my OTA and left little spit markes on my 4.5 primary mirror(the jerk!) So now how do I clean that crud off my mirror???




I would like to point out that you are most probably overreacting, and the mirror would be best left alone. I know that some folks just won't be able to resist cleaning it, but for future reference it is very likely that the stain(s) are totally irrelevant.


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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: dpwoos]
      #5648353 - 01/28/13 02:30 PM

Well ok then dpwoos. I will not clean it until I try to observe with it again this next weekend 2-2-13 and then I will report back. But it does look just awful with the little spit marks on it. Glad I was able to remove mirror and take a look at it and then reinstall it for future reference. It really builds ones confidence to be able to remove and reinstall the parts of my telescope in a succsessful manner and have everything work like it is supposed to. But like I stated...any help is very much appreciated and welcome by me. Thanks!

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: dpwoos]
      #5648687 - 01/28/13 04:52 PM

Quote:

I would like to point out that you are most probably overreacting, and the mirror would be best left alone. I know that some folks just won't be able to resist cleaning it, but for future reference it is very likely that the stain(s) are totally irrelevant.




I would normally agree but I believe saliva has some enzymes that can attack coatings. In his discussion of cleaning lenses, Roland Christen recommends saliva for cleaning the toughest spots but says it should only remain on the surface for a few seconds for it is rinsed off.

Jon


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dpwoos
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 10/18/06

Loc: United States
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5648942 - 01/28/13 06:42 PM

Don't you think that by now it is what it is? I haven't seen it, but I can't imagine that it is so bad that I wouldn't leave it alone, if it were mine.

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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: dpwoos]
      #5649062 - 01/28/13 07:40 PM

Oh great! Now I'm in a rush to clean my primary mirror before it is permanently damaged ! will use the light soapy water and a distilled water rinse and let air dry. Hope it's not to late as it has been almost 24 HRS from first "spit". My good friend has instructions to "stay away" from my telescope...lol!

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Dennis_S253
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/22/11

Loc: West Central Florida
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5649126 - 01/28/13 08:05 PM

Walmart has distilled water for $.69 a gallon. I'm sure you have a couple drops of dish soup. Just do it and gitter done

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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: Dennis_S253]
      #5649152 - 01/28/13 08:13 PM

That's the plan right now tonight thank you very much! Also how about the use of fingers to lightly clean with the soapy water that I have read about???

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dpwoos
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Reged: 10/18/06

Loc: United States
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5649351 - 01/28/13 10:05 PM

You are overreacting - but you have to do what you have to do. If nothing else you will learn something about your scope, and knowledge is a good thing. If you are going to do it, then just do it. Really, it is hard to go wrong if you follow reasonable instructions.

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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: dpwoos]
      #5649832 - 01/29/13 08:18 AM

Quote:

Don't you think that by now it is what it is? I haven't seen it, but I can't imagine that it is so bad that I wouldn't leave it alone, if it were mine.




I don't know what it is... If I could see it, I would have a better sense. Whatever it is, the mirror should still provide reasonable views.

Jon


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WaterMasterAdministrator
Moat Keeper
*****

Reged: 02/17/10

Loc: Southeast Idaho, USA
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5650230 - 01/29/13 12:41 PM

Quote:

That's the plan right now tonight thank you very much! Also how about the use of fingers to lightly clean with the soapy water that I have read about???




Unless you have something really glued on to your mirror, try to avoid touching it with anything but liquid while you're cleaning. But if you have to, I recommend light fingers rather than cotton balls.

I put my mirrors under running water in the sink for a while, then I try to get the mirror as level as possible in the bottom of the sink so that the water fills the concavity - then I add a couple of drops of soap if needed and let is set for a few minutes, followed by more running water.

Then set the mirror on its side and rinse with either distilled water or 90% isopropyl alcohol.


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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: WaterMaster]
      #5650611 - 01/29/13 03:39 PM

Don't want to touch mirror at all if I don't have to so it will be the soak and rinse method.

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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5651319 - 01/29/13 10:46 PM

Mirror has been reinstalled back into cell and cell has been reinstalled back into OTA and is nice and clean! Also I installed the the center mark on the mirror and have collmated the telescope. Everything turned out just fine. Not bad for having this Bird-Jones newtonian telescope for just over a month. Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions.

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WaterMasterAdministrator
Moat Keeper
*****

Reged: 02/17/10

Loc: Southeast Idaho, USA
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5651334 - 01/29/13 10:56 PM



Something we forgot to mention - when you replace the mirror in the cell the retaining clips should not be touching the mirror. I use a business card as a gauge between the mirror and the clips. If you have them tight you might induce some pinching of the primary (which is pretty obvious when you do a star test).


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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: WaterMaster]
      #5651343 - 01/29/13 11:06 PM

So the rubber pads on the clips "should not be touching the mirror at all and the clearance should be in such a way that you can slide a business card between pad and mirror correct??? When I did the disassemble I noted that the rubber pads were touching the morror from the factory. I will check the clearance right now. And this clearance will not allow the mirror to slide around in the cell correct?

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panhard
It's All Good
*****

Reged: 01/20/08

Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5651363 - 01/29/13 11:19 PM

Steve I mentioned that earlier on.

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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: panhard]
      #5651370 - 01/29/13 11:22 PM

Clearance has now been set on all clips just as you all said. Thank you again.

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WaterMasterAdministrator
Moat Keeper
*****

Reged: 02/17/10

Loc: Southeast Idaho, USA
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: panhard]
      #5651411 - 01/29/13 11:43 PM

Quote:

Steve I mentioned that earlier on.




Thanks, Herb. Was in a hurry and didn't look back at previous posts.

The clips are only there to hold the mirror from falling out of the cell when you're near horizontal. There should have been spacer pads inside the cell to hold the mirror from shifting when you change altitude.

Guess I should have checked to see if somebody else said that already, too.

Perhaps I'm multi-tasking a little too much.


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panhard
It's All Good
*****

Reged: 01/20/08

Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: WaterMaster]
      #5651416 - 01/29/13 11:48 PM

Steve you have had a lot to worry about lately.
ps I am glad to see you around more now.


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Crazyhorse1876
super member


Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Left Coast U.S.A.
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: WaterMaster]
      #5651423 - 01/29/13 11:52 PM

Pads were there...clearances are set now as you all discribed so I am very happy with the way everything turned out.

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WaterMasterAdministrator
Moat Keeper
*****

Reged: 02/17/10

Loc: Southeast Idaho, USA
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: Crazyhorse1876]
      #5651430 - 01/30/13 12:01 AM

Great news, Crazyhorse

And thanks again Herb, it's great to be 'home'.


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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: WaterMaster]
      #5651733 - 01/30/13 07:52 AM

Quote:


Unless you have something really glued on to your mirror, try to avoid touching it with anything but liquid while you're cleaning. But if you have to, I recommend light fingers rather than cotton balls.




The advantage of cotton balls is that they can be "floated" across the mirror so there is very little force and what force there is spread over a large area. I use a wad of about 6 balls and just float it across the surface of the mirror. This is not for removing a spot but when the entire surface needs more attention than a soak and rinse provide.

Jon


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WaterMasterAdministrator
Moat Keeper
*****

Reged: 02/17/10

Loc: Southeast Idaho, USA
Re: Need help! dirty Primary mirror on 114EQ! ! new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5652131 - 01/30/13 11:45 AM

Quote:

I use a wad of about 6 balls and just float it across the surface of the mirror. This is not for removing a spot but when the entire surface needs more attention than a soak and rinse provide.




Thanks Jon, that's a great idea. I've a mirror that used to belong to a smoker and I've been contemplating how I'll attack cleaning it. Soak and rinse hasn't been adequately successful as yet. I even tried an alcohol soak but Cathy complained about the smell (and it didn't really work anyway) .


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