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Equipment Discussions >> ATM, Optics and DIY Forum

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lukasik
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/11/05

Loc: Lawrenceville, Georgia
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: JohnH]
      #5642683 - 01/25/13 02:17 PM

+1 on this link to Guy Lautard!

I have all three of the Machinist's Bedside Readers. Entertaining if you like to make things, and lots of great ideas.

Regards,

Bob


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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: obin robinson]
      #5642713 - 01/25/13 02:29 PM

Quote:



In many cases these things go up for sale under the condition of "local pick-up only" because of their size and weight. You might be able to score a $5,000 lathe for $500 if you have three strong friends and a pickup truck. Those deals are there and you just have to look for them.




Speaking of local pick-up: I have a Rockford 13x30 lathe available for FREE providing that one load it up a haul it away. There is definitely assembly required as it is completely disassembled. I would also include a rotary 220V single-phase to 3-Phase converter I built to run the lathe’s 3Ph 3Hp motor. Also included: 12” T slot faceplate, 8” 3-jaw chuck and 10” 4-jaw independent chuck. PM me.

Don


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Howie Glatter
Vendor


Reged: 07/04/06

Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: tim53]
      #5643010 - 01/25/13 05:25 PM

> . . there are so many old ones in great condition still available . .

Most of the used machines I have seen at auctions were badly worn. Of course, if the machine was only used by a conscientious worker who kept it oiled, and cleaned abrasive residue from the slide ways,it will be o.k. But if you intend to do high precision work, you should bring a straight edge and dial indicator with you, and check the ways for wear and the spindle for run-out. Usually, if the ways are worn, it will be adjacent to the headstock.
If you know how to do it, all the important alignments should be checked.
On the other hand, a worn lathe can be completely re-conditioned by hand-scraping, a wonderful, almost lost art.


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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: Howie Glatter]
      #5643121 - 01/25/13 06:34 PM

Quote:

> On the other hand, a worn lathe can be completely re-conditioned by hand-scraping, a wonderful, almost lost art.




Hand scraping certainly falls under this thread title about shaping metal without milling or using lathe.

BTW "Machine Tool Reconditioning and Applications of Hand Scraping" by Edward F. Connelly is an excellent reference.
http://www.amazon.com/Machine-Tool-Reconditioning-Applications-Scraping/dp/B0... I am glad to have a copy before it went out of print. IMO hand scraping is on par with hand figuring a telescope mirror.

Don Clement


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Tavi
super member


Reged: 10/11/09

Loc: Romania, EU
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: don clement]
      #5643254 - 01/25/13 07:54 PM

There is my home made small milling machine:



I got the drilling press support and the milling table from a second-hand market, very cheap. The vice and the drilling hand machine was buyed new like the various milling bits you can see near in the little can. I used this to machine a lot of my ATM's part, including thick 12mm Alloy. Also, I use an accu drill, a jigsaw, angular grinder, files etc. For some parts wich a lathe or a mill is needed, I went to a friend's mechanical shop who help me a lot.

For cutting the alloy plate I used a jigsaw atached to a DIY radial tool wich guide it around a center pin:



This is my cassegrain mirror cell after cutting:



And here the cell prepared to assembling phase:



I used the mini-mill to make the disc round, drillpress to make holes, jigsaw to cut and files to finish.


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JohnH
Carpal Tunnel
****

Reged: 10/04/05

Loc: Squamish BC Moved!!!!!
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: Tavi]
      #5643318 - 01/25/13 08:37 PM

I also forgot Gary Wolanski

http://members.shaw.ca/gargwolanski/

I have had a chance to speak with him, as he his a semi-legendary figure in ATM circles in BC, Canada, and was a frequent entry in optical and construction categories at many star parties.


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whirlpoolm51
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 01/05/12

Loc: pittsburgh,pa
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: obin robinson]
      #5643532 - 01/25/13 10:59 PM

believe me!! between seeing what has happened to my father and many friends i have worked with i am plenty cautious when it comes to working with power tools hahahahah i do electrical work for a living and the owrst i have ever been hurt is when i wasnt paying attention and was in a hurry and i accidently stuck my thmb on the hot lug of a 150 amp panel!!...let me tell you , i had the taste of metal in my mouth for the next 3 days!!

So the moral of this story is.....DONT BE STUPID AND PAY ATTENTION hahahahaha

table saws , lathes , bench grinders , drill presses etc etc no matter what , if you get carless and try to rush you are goign to get hurt , and between the power of a lathe and even a bench grinder , that is enough to remove all 10 fingers from your precious little hands hahaha

So when it comes to saftey im pretty positive i am taking all precations!!!


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Geo.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: whirlpoolm51]
      #5644251 - 01/26/13 11:42 AM

I grew up on a farm around machinery (still one of the most dangerous workplaces) and dad never stopped with the dire warnings. OTOH, the wife took an adult ed course entitled "Ladies Night Out With Power Tools," which emphasised respect not fear of tools.

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Tavi
super member


Reged: 10/11/09

Loc: Romania, EU
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: Geo.]
      #5645605 - 01/27/13 08:29 AM

Of course, we have "power tools" the ladies should never fear... at least after the first night!!

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ccaissie
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/13/10

Loc: Whitefield, Maine
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? [Re: Tavi]
      #5648727 - 01/28/13 05:08 PM

Check this source out.
http://gingerybooks.com/
He's not afraid to use anything to make anything.


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Geo.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: skinnyonce]
      #5650846 - 01/29/13 06:01 PM

Quote:

lets not forget ole Mr safety




And Off. Just read that in the history of human death half were by mosquitos.


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tim53
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 12/17/04

Loc: Highland Park, CA
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: Geo.]
      #5650960 - 01/29/13 07:07 PM

That does it, I'm NEVER going to use mosquitos to make telescope components!

-Tim.


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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: tim53]
      #5651128 - 01/29/13 08:40 PM

Do you ATMs think grinding mirrors is safer than shaping metal with machine tools? Bob Cox died from just that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Cox

Don Clement


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Gordon Rayner
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/24/07

Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: don clement]
      #5651266 - 01/29/13 10:09 PM

As I recall, Robert Cox was breathing fine glass particles thrown into the air with fine coolant spray from a lens curve generator, or a Blanchard grinder used to make flat glass surfaces.I visited an Orange County, Calif shop in the 1970's. Some presumably low wage, possibly undocumented workers were in a room with some, but inadequate, ventilation or filtering. I believe that this was before OSHA, or about at its beginning. The Blanchards or Strasbaughs were in action, flattening glass. An odor of kerosene and a thin fog of it(?), and probably some additives or water (?) made me want to leave.

I have wondered about the fate of those workers, in light of the fate of Robert Cox. Remember when he called his identical twin to the stage at RTMC? " Yes, nature can make the same mistake twice", he said.


I wonder if his estate sued McDonnel Douglas , Inc. ?


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Geo.
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5653962 - 01/31/13 09:58 AM

Quote:

I wonder if his estate sued McDonnel Douglas , Inc. ?




Pretty sure all states have had worker's compensation laws for the last century. Comp greatly restricts an employee's legal redress in the event of injury or death related to employment. You have to find someone who's not the employer who has a duty of care, like the asbestos producers who failed to disclose to manufacturers of the hazardous nature of their product. Exceptions are that employers in construction can be sued if they fail to comply with OSHA requirements and an injury or death results, seamen employed on US flag vessels and railroad workers right are covered by federal law, which permit suits.


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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: Geo.]
      #5654637 - 01/31/13 04:31 PM

OMG OSHA is going to have a cow. Someone put a through hole in end my pneumatic 5C closer right over the WARNING lable.



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Gordon Rayner
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/24/07

Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: don clement]
      #5657263 - 02/01/13 10:23 PM

We are getting away from the op's title, but this is interesting.

Why did you go pneumatic, instead of the usual lever arm collet closer? Maximum speed for production?

Related (?): I there now any speedy way to make tool changes on a Bridgeport type vertical milling machine, without climbing onto a stepstool, R&R the drawbar threads, ..., without spending the $$$$ which I recall were required the last time I looked ? Pneumatics?


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StarStuff1
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 04/01/07

Loc: South of the Mason-Dixon Line
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5657315 - 02/01/13 10:49 PM

Gordon ???????

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don clement
Vendor (Clement Focuser)


Reged: 02/02/11

Loc: Running Springs, California
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: Gordon Rayner]
      #5658769 - 02/02/13 07:33 PM

Quote:

Why did you go pneumatic, instead of the usual lever arm collet closer? Maximum speed for production?



I posted the pneumatic closer because of the posts about OSHA on this thread. Royal didn’t sell the pneumatic closer with a through hole because they claimed OSHA safety requirements. That is strange because the lever closer that the pneumatic closer replaced had a through hole. What was Royal thinking? Anyhow I found out before the pneumatic closer was purchased that a through hole was easily made in the back plate. The reasons I went to the pneumatic over the lever were 1) it was easier to remove the pneumatic closer by using air quick disconnects and just pulling it out from the rear. Royal supplied a D1-4 nose which holds the 5C collets which eliminated have to knock the Morse 5 to 5C adapter out when mounting other D1-4 chucks. 2) I was able to repeatedly vary the pulling force on the 5C collet of the pneumatic closer by simply adjusting the differential pressure valve controlling the dual-action pneumatic closer actuator. This was an important feature for holding thin walled parts without distorting the part. 3) The pneumatic closer has less vibration than the lever closer it replaced.





Quote:

Related (?): Is there now any speedy way to make tool changes on a Bridgeport type vertical milling machine, without climbing onto a stepstool, R&R the drawbar threads, ..., without spending the $$$$ which I recall were required the last time I looked ? Pneumatics?



I have both a Tormach CNC mill and a Rockwell vertical manual mill. http://www.lathes.co.uk/rockwellmillers/ Both have R8 spindles. I use the Tormach TTS tooling system http://www.tormach.com/product_tts2.html that works extremely well on both. On the Tormach CNC mill I installed a beta version of the Tormach pneumatic power draw bar (PDB) to quickly change tools. http://www.tormach.com/products_power_drawbar.html For me the PDB does 90% of what an automatic tool changer (ATC) does for my prototype and limited production work. The PDB was one of my best investments allowing me to change the way I do CNC work. The manual draw bar is time consuming when changing tools so in the past I programmed my CNC work so that all parts in a run would be machined then the tool changed. With the PDB and footswitch I can easily and quickly change tools. Now I program a CNC run to use many tool changes and then change the part.

Don Clement


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whirlpoolm51
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 01/05/12

Loc: pittsburgh,pa
Re: Shaping metal without milling or using lathe??? new [Re: don clement]
      #5658834 - 02/02/13 08:06 PM

I got my lathe today!!!! and what a wonderful tool might i say!! I also purchased a milling attatchment for it so now i have a 2 in 1 machine!!! lathe and milling machine!! thats my set up for now until i get the sherline 4000 mill

I also hinted to the wife when we were at harbor freight about the large horizontal/vertical metal cutting bandsaw!!! only 250 for the 4" x 6" model!!! the 1 hp 7x12" hydrolic feeed one sitting right next to it is mighty tempting thought but the price isnt!!! hahaha


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