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Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

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Sarkikos
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5668979 - 02/08/13 01:02 PM

I'm surprised we haven't gotten more posts from the bino mavens. You think they would have smelled the odor of "cheap" binoculars in the air.


Mike


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hallelujah
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5669170 - 02/08/13 02:22 PM

Quote:

I'm surprised we haven't gotten more posts from the bino mavens.
You think they would have smelled the odor of "cheap" binoculars in the air.

Mike




I had my experience, several years ago, when its twin brother, the Fujinon 7x42, 8x42, 10x42, CD, was on close out sale.

I was not overly impressed with my sample.
I ended up selling mine to the boss for his yearly hunting trek.
Fortunately for me, I recovered ALL of my investment at the time of the sale.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fujinon-CD-8x42-Binoculars-Never-Used-lifetime-warran...

I still prefer Porro prism binoculars myself.

Stan

Edited by hallelujah (02/08/13 08:11 PM)


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KennyJ
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: hallelujah]
      #5669578 - 02/08/13 06:33 PM

I think I understand Jon's interpretation of the difference between"cheap"and "inexpensive".

However,during times when the best 42mm binoculars cost in excess of $2000,to my way of thinking, ones that costs $20 brand new, are cheap.

Kenny


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: KennyJ]
      #5669592 - 02/08/13 06:40 PM

Quote:

I think I understand Jon's interpretation of the difference between"cheap"and "inexpensive".

However,during times when the best 42mm binoculars cost in excess of $2000,to my way of thinking, ones that costs $20 brand new, are cheap.

Kenny




I have purchased a few under $20 binoculars, mostly just to see how bad they are. So far, they have all qualified as "cheap." I think the worst were some "10 x 50" binoculars I purchased at Ace hardware around Christmas for around $10. They looked like binoculars, they were built like binoculars, the eyepieces moved in an out when I moved the focus wheel. But everything was dark shade of blue-green and nothing was ever in focus.

Jon


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KennyJ
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5669634 - 02/08/13 07:12 PM

It's been well documented on this forum that I've purchased a few sub $20 binoculars since I became an active member here 10 years ago.

I've gone so far as to have praised one model in particular,namely the "Bresser 10 x 50(9x40) that the supermarket retailer LIDL sold in pre-Christmas sales a few years ago.

But I never suggested they were "GOOD BINOCULARS" per se, -- just that they were capable of providing surprisingly impressive images of stars when set to infinity focus.

For daytime use they were poor,with dull images,excessive chromatic aberration,stiff and sticking focus knob,diopter wheel and eyecup/eye-relief adjuster and too easy to knock out of focus.

They also smelled like warm tyres.

Although from a purely optical standpoint I've viewed the night sky through worse binoculars,overall I would never have classified the model as being "good",no matter what it's price.

Kenny


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charen
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: KennyJ]
      #5669955 - 02/08/13 11:23 PM

Over the past 10 years or so I have had 300 odd binoculars pass through my hands that I have collected, traded or sold, my current collection is 30 odd. Non of them would be below approx. $US200 new, non of then are 'entry' level binos and there is a reason for that - inferior optical and build qualities - period.
Retrospectively, I would have not wasted money on 30 or so entry level binos over the years and just saved up for one quality one.
Yes, there is an saying 'never look through a binocular you can't afford'. No, I am not rich just an average working man - the point is one quality bino is better then 30 inferior ones and yes if you are struggling to buy your first bino then wait a bit more save a bit more. No one ever regretted buying quality. [Yes, I have a strong opinion but that's OK].

Chris


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Binojunky
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: charen]
      #5670624 - 02/09/13 12:11 PM

A couple of years ago I attended a star party and as usual forgot to take binoculars, when a problem occured with my scope mount I was left with nothing,a pair of inexpensive Bresser 7x50,s saved the day, bought from a vendor who was there for about $30,regarding real bang for the buck binos, the Canon 10x30IS I picked up new for $350 has to be the best investment I made, JMTCW,DA.

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Sarkikos
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5670688 - 02/09/13 12:54 PM

That reminds me of the first time I went with my family to a dark site. I had forgotten to pack a crucial piece of equipment for the main telescope's mount. Luckily, I did remember to pack three binoculars, one for myself, my wife and my daughter. So all was not lost. We had a great time looking at Messier and other showpiece objects under a dark sky. I pointed out the location of the objects for them with a GLP.

It's ironic that for the past few years I always bring a pair of binoculars just in case, but hardly ever use them. I suppose my 15x70 finder scope has taken the place of binoculars for me at the dark site.

Mike


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*skyguy*
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5670787 - 02/09/13 01:39 PM

Inexpensive binoculars can be "good" (enough) ... not necessarily perfect or even great ... but, with acceptable optics, mechanical build and price for the buyer's needs and bank account. The final determination on what is "good" should be at the discretion of the purchaser not others. However, the definition of "good" will probably change over time for most people.

Cheap binoculars ... well, they should stay in their blister pack on the store shelf!


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: *skyguy*]
      #5671918 - 02/10/13 07:33 AM

Quote:

Inexpensive binoculars can be "good" (enough) ... not necessarily perfect or even great ... but, with acceptable optics, mechanical build and price for the buyer's needs and bank account. The final determination on what is "good" should be at the discretion of the purchaser not others.




We all have our different standards but I do think that one might be able to have a consensus as what constitutes minimum acceptable/decent/good. The things that come to mind:

- Hold focus. Must pass Bill's thumb pinch test.

- Have some realistic chance of remaining in collimation.

- Have real coatings rather than some red or green coatings that turn everything a different color.

- Have some approximating of operating at full aperture. A 50mm that operates at 40mm is probably OK, a 50mm that operates at 25mm is not.

Jon


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John Kuraoka
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5672104 - 02/10/13 10:33 AM

As the satisfied owner of one of these, I'd like to mention again that The Meade Montana 7x42s were not $20 binoculars, or even $50 binoculars. They were $200 binoculars temporarily marked down to $80.

Whether any sales were made at $200 I can't say. I can say, though, that in my uneducated opinion they are well worth the $80. They are a significant upgrade in brightness, clarity, aimability, and fog-resistance to my Nikon Action IV 7x35s, which cost roughly the same about a dozen years ago.


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Sarkikos
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: John Kuraoka]
      #5672222 - 02/10/13 11:56 AM

IME, the Bino Forum is much harsher on inexpensive instruments than any of the other forums. There is little mercy here. If there is a whiff of "cheap" binos in the air, prepare for the pounding.

Maybe this is because many times an inexpensive Newt, SCT or achromat can be tweaked and improved fairly easily. A rather mediocre off-the-shelf telescope can be transformed into a decent instrument.

But what can you do to improve binoculars? They are what they are. Are you going to take them apart to baffle them? Can you replace the eyepieces? If they are out of collimation, are most users going to be able to recollimate them? You have to return them for refund or exchange, or just accept the loss. Maybe you could send them to an expert to collimate, probably at a substantial fee. But that would not be cost effective for inexpensive binoculars. Any beginner with a little patience can learn to collimate a New, SCT or refractor.

Mike


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Binojunky
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5677885 - 02/13/13 03:39 PM

Mine arrived in good shape though they were in the standard box inside another one with just a small piece of bubble wrap, however the case is well padded, needless to say because Canada is so broke I got hit with brokerage and Harmonised sales tax that pushed the price up another $43, however they are still a bargain buy at $120.
The cheapest made in Japan roof prism in the 40mm size I have come across(A Leupold) sell for about $350 or three times the price of the Montanas.DA.


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jrcrillyAdministrator
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Loc: NE Ohio
Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5677898 - 02/13/13 03:44 PM

Quote:

Mine arrived in good shape though they were in the standard box inside another one with just a small piece of bubble wrap,




Mine arrived, and it appears that they are packed the same way; the "beauty box" is free to move around within the outer box. Haven't had a chance to open and inspect them yet. I suspect that the padded case protected them well enough.


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Binojunky
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: jrcrilly]
      #5677962 - 02/13/13 04:28 PM

Well John if nothing else it means they are of a rugged construction, I think you will like them, this is my second pair,the first were passed on to a friend,I also have a nice 8x56 roof prism from Meade, made in Japan but not phased coated, called the Rain Forest Pro,DA.

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rydberg
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: Binojunky]
      #5678418 - 02/13/13 09:39 PM

Mine are here too, and agree, the packaging is ...oh-hum. But between the smaller box inside and the case the binoculars were fine.
The box says "made in Japan. Fit and finish DO NOT belie that notion. The rubber coating feel nice and does not smell too bad, mostly "rubbery".
The case is nice, a soft "faux" leather with a strap for the case and another strap for the binoculars and the objective covers. The eyepiece cover is one those useless one-piece jobbies.

Tonight was clear so I took them out for a brief tour.
As roofs, I am always worried about spiking.
None was seen in mine while looking at Sirius.
Chromatic aberration is fairly well controlled as well, as I didn't see any blue halo around it.
Nice "snap" on focus, with stars getting a bit bloated in the outer 20% of the FOV. The "bloat" can be almost entirely eliminated by re-focusing, so it is due mostly to field curvature. The lens coating (eyepiece and objectives) is nice and uniform, deep green. Reflections appear well controlled. Outside I had confirmation. While looking at a High Pressure Sodium street lamp about 100 yards away I saw no reflection whatsoever, whit a clean and sharp image. I have another pair of $100 roofs, and let me tell you, it is night and day!
The fov is wide enough that Orion's belt fits in it comfortably more than twice, in line with the advertised 419ft @ 1000 yards (8 degrees).
Near focus is pretty close (less than 10 feet).
for $79 plus $8 shipping, these things were a bargain!
Marco


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Sarkikos
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: rydberg]
      #5678460 - 02/13/13 10:04 PM

My binos arrived today in good shape. The fit and finish agree with reports from others in the thread. They feel solid and sturdy in my hands. The IPD adjustment holds steady. I like the central focus knob and diopter switch. Of course, it's rainy and snowy tonight, so no first light yet.

I did not like the single cover for the oculars. I took out my box of eyepiece caps and found a couple caps from some Meade eyepieces. They might have been from my pair of 5k UWA 6.7mm eyepieces. I removed the shrouds from the 6.7's, and so the original caps no longer fit. But they fit beautifully on the oculars of these Montana binos. Very nice fit. I put them on and they stay put! Easy to remove, also. They are Meade eyecaps no less. Lucky happenstance.


Mike


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5678959 - 02/14/13 08:39 AM

A couple of tips..

-The leather case is very nice but it's not very rugged, mine was ducted together after a few years..

- If the eyecups are too loose, you can tighten the ring at the their base and that will tighten them up.

Jon


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Sarkikos
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: Jon Isaacs]
      #5679012 - 02/14/13 09:30 AM

Replacement cases for small binos are inexpensive. They can be found on eBay. But I'll keep my Montana's in their own case until it falls apart.

Mike


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Jon Isaacs
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Re: 7x42 Montana Binoculars with Strap and Carry Case new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5679594 - 02/14/13 02:17 PM

Quote:

Replacement cases for small binos are inexpensive. They can be found on eBay. But I'll keep my Montana's in their own case until it falls apart.

In my opinion, the Meade Montana's everyone got here is heck of a steal... I should have gotten a pair myself.

Jon

Mike




I had a pair of "inexpensive" Meade 8x42's roofs that lost collimation. I am using that case but duck tape works quite well.

Jon


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