Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu uh, User

Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
hoa101
super member
*****

Reged: 02/04/12

Loc: Northern Virginia
What is the issue with my flats?
      #5657989 - 02/02/13 11:51 AM Attachment (31 downloads)

I'm trying to get some better flats, and I have an odd result no matter what I try.

With my 50mm lens, I've used t-shirt method with overcast sky, double white paper, white LCD computer screen and t-shirt, computer screen and paper. But, I always get these strange vertical "ripples". Initially I thought the t-shrits had wrinkles, hence the paper tests. But I get the same result.

I've looked at other people's flats, and do not see anything quite like it. Is there some kind of issue with my method, or maybe the camera? Thought this was a bit strange...

Here is low quality jpg of one that I quickly stretched.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Skyshooter
professor emeritus


Reged: 04/07/08

Loc: S. Utah, U.S.A.
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658009 - 02/02/13 12:01 PM

Looks to me like uneven illumination caused by the lamp on the LCD display on a laptop. Have you tried twilight flats? A quick shot of an evenly illuminated blue sky will tell you if it's a sensor problem or not.

Good Luck,
Ed


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoa101
super member
*****

Reged: 02/04/12

Loc: Northern Virginia
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: Skyshooter]
      #5658019 - 02/02/13 12:08 PM

That's what I tried initially, but I got a noticeable gradient from uneven illumination of the sunlight. I think the 50mm is just too wide.

If there's something wrong with the sensor I need to decide asap... my 14-day return period to KEH will run out in a few days.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoa101
super member
*****

Reged: 02/04/12

Loc: Northern Virginia
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658035 - 02/02/13 12:19 PM Attachment (16 downloads)

Okay, another test method. This has to be the camera... I wish I had another lens to test. The other ones are all Nikon for our day-use camera.

I took a photo of overcast sky at f/22 while moving the camera side to side. Ripples still there.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tonk
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658064 - 02/02/13 12:44 PM

How long are these exposures - can you show us the histogram?

Until I see the info it is looking to me like you are grossly under exposing these and the banding is coming up after stretching from the underlying bias pattern that all sensors have

Are you also shooting flat darks (darks for the flats). Without these included in the calibration the bias pattern issue will remain regardless of correct flat exposure

Can I suggest using AV mode to measure the correct exposure length and then switching to manual and dial the required exposure in. Then its easy to rattle off flats and then flat darks


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zerro1
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/02/09

Loc: Smokey Point , 48.12°N 122.25...
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658067 - 02/02/13 12:44 PM

the features look to be in the same locations. this would be virtually impossible to replicate using paper for one and using a T-shirt for another.

try a flat without a lens?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoa101
super member
*****

Reged: 02/04/12

Loc: Northern Virginia
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: zerro1]
      #5658076 - 02/02/13 12:47 PM

This is indeed AV mode. The histogram is very close to 0.0 peak in GIMP. I will attempt some with no lens.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoa101
super member
*****

Reged: 02/04/12

Loc: Northern Virginia
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658104 - 02/02/13 12:56 PM Attachment (16 downloads)

Here is a quick and dirty version - AV mode, no lens, light of white LCD diffused through two layers of white paper. I was forced to clip the black a bit because the peak is really spread out. It's not perfect, but you can still see those ripples.

I'm thinking I should return this body, if nothing else than for piece of mind. Flats could potentially take this effect out of my images, but this cannot be normal behavior of the sensor...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zerro1
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/02/09

Loc: Smokey Point , 48.12°N 122.25...
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658115 - 02/02/13 01:05 PM

Quote:

This is indeed AV mode. The histogram is very close to 0.0 peak in GIMP. I will attempt some with no lens.




How AV mode "exposes" is adjustable... you can increase the exposure of AV mode. (On my older Canon 1000D) you press the AV button on back of camera wich toggles the scale, then adjust up or down by using the "wheel". Not familiar with newer models so it may be different. I usually have mine set just under 1/2 of the scale


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sean13
sage


Reged: 11/17/12

Loc: North Platte, Nebraska
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658120 - 02/02/13 01:08 PM

It still looks under exposed to me. How far away from the lens/body are you holding your paper or computer screen?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoa101
super member
*****

Reged: 02/04/12

Loc: Northern Virginia
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: Sean13]
      #5658124 - 02/02/13 01:11 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

From DPP using the raw image - this one with no lens actually looks overexposed. The others were right at 0.0.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoa101
super member
*****

Reged: 02/04/12

Loc: Northern Virginia
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658131 - 02/02/13 01:15 PM Attachment (14 downloads)

Here's a histogram from one of the flats taken with a lens, facing the overcast sky, with double-layer t-shirt fabric over the lens shield, focused to infinity, AV mode, ISO 100.

Edited by hoa101 (02/02/13 01:15 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoa101
super member
*****

Reged: 02/04/12

Loc: Northern Virginia
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658318 - 02/02/13 03:08 PM

Thanks for the help guys.

I just sent it back. Not worth the worry, and I can get a full refund. If something is really wrong, bullet-dodged. If not, then oh well, I am only out the cost of shipping.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tonk
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658429 - 02/02/13 04:12 PM

Your flat with no lens just looks totally wrong - why is the whole thing eliptical???

It looks like the light source is off axis and/or your paper sheets were tilted

Flats taken though a good optical system should have a circular gradient

Can we have a photo of your rig when taking these flats?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sean13
sage


Reged: 11/17/12

Loc: North Platte, Nebraska
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658430 - 02/02/13 04:13 PM

Yea I would tend to agree, best just to send it back and replace it. That is a really strange effect.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
nganga
super member


Reged: 03/16/08

Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658442 - 02/02/13 04:26 PM

Quote:

I'm trying to get some better flats, and I have an odd result no matter what I try.

With my 50mm lens, I've used t-shirt method with overcast sky, double white paper, white LCD computer screen and t-shirt, computer screen and paper. But, I always get these strange vertical "ripples". Initially I thought the t-shrits had wrinkles, hence the paper tests. But I get the same result.

I've looked at other people's flats, and do not see anything quite like it. Is there some kind of issue with my method, or maybe the camera? Thought this was a bit strange...

Here is low quality jpg of one that I quickly stretched.




I wonder if you are not seeing a shutter artifact? Before you return anything, try increasing the exposure. Either add one or 2 stops to the exposure compensation if you want to use AV mode, or use manual exposure, again adding one stop or 2 to the autoexposure reading.

Clem


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hoa101
super member
*****

Reged: 02/04/12

Loc: Northern Virginia
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: nganga]
      #5658529 - 02/02/13 05:09 PM

The ellipse was because I have no way to evenly expose a flat with no lens. It's snowing outside, so I covered it with paper and fired away at the computer screen.

I did think of the exposure length issue. I tried everything from 1/400s to multiple seconds, no change.

Anyway, it's moot now. Camera is going back. I'll buy a new one instead that has a warranty. Amazon has them with the kit lens for $400.

Thanks all for the help.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Toxic Coolaid
professor emeritus


Reged: 10/01/11

Loc: NorthEast Tennessee
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: hoa101]
      #5658547 - 02/02/13 05:20 PM

Cover it with a sheet of paper, go outside and shoot up, with or without a lens. You cant ask for a more even light source

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tonk
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/19/04

Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: Toxic Coolaid]
      #5658587 - 02/02/13 05:43 PM

Quote:

The ellipse was because I have no way to evenly expose a flat with no lens. It's snowing outside, so I covered it with paper and fired away at the computer screen.




Which is a bad way to expose flats. Don't be supprised if the next camera does the same


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sean13
sage


Reged: 11/17/12

Loc: North Platte, Nebraska
Re: What is the issue with my flats? new [Re: Tonk]
      #5658675 - 02/02/13 06:22 PM

I see also that your taking your flats at f/22 in the pic up there. I could be wrong but I'd think you want the largest aperture you can get.

I shoot my flats thru the scope at f/6.3, ISO 100, with an LED Laptop screen full brightness white background virtually touching the end of the scope. I don't use paper or anything to difuse it, as the focus does that pretty well for me and an LED is already evenly illuminated. My shutter speed escapes me at the moment, but this will vary for you as well based on how bright your light source is and your f/stop.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)


Extra information
12 registered and 22 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Dave M, fishonkevin, WOBentley, tecmage 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 851

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics