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General Astronomy >> Light Pollution

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DSL72
member
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Reged: 07/11/12

Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new
      #5662639 - 02/04/13 10:37 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfJ9KwGKKkM

Toward the end of the 2 minute video, an ugly view, looking east from Cherry Springs.

Then there's the Chicago-sized light dome in North Dakota:

http://www.houstontomorrow.org/livability/story/north-dakotas-fracking-boom-l...


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csrlice12
Postmaster
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: DSL72]
      #5663263 - 02/05/13 10:20 AM

Fracking Light Pollution (pun intended) is not just a problem in PA. Colorado is being overrun by Fracking oil companies; they put one Fracking well within 1/2 mile of our Astro Society's Dark Site....Lit the dark site up like a Christmas tree, you could read your star charts without any lights. And now, people are on TV News setting their kitchen/bathroom faucets on fire.......

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George N
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5663631 - 02/05/13 02:03 PM

There have currently been around 2 to 3 thousand frack wells drilled in PA, somewhere between 30 and 60 in Potter County (66 approved permits), which has Cherry Springs International Dark Sky Park.

The plan, for the next 50 years, is to drill 140,000 gas wells in PA. BTW, they have to re-frack the wells every 3 years or so to keep the gas flowing. They have to create the gas lines and pumping stations to get the gas out of all of these wells. They light the pumping stations for ‘security’. Welcome to the future.

At least the state owns much of the land around CSSP, and the drill rights for much of the private land in the area within 10 miles of the park. They are trying to buy up the drilling rights on the remainder. They plan on not allowing drilling in the immediate vicinity of the park.


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csrlice12
Postmaster
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA [Re: George N]
      #5663673 - 02/05/13 02:27 PM

Just read an article here in CO and the people are fighting further fracking in many locals...

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mountain monk
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: csrlice12]
      #5664087 - 02/05/13 06:07 PM

For the background on what is happening in N. Dakota, see:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/magazine/north-dakota-went-boom.html?pagewa...

According to the World Bank, the US has moved to fifth place in gas flame luminance (after Russia, Iran, etc). Gas flaming also pumps more carbon dioxide in the air, of course. In MHO, the IDA has not paid sufficient attention to this issue. We have already lost two dark areas in Wyoming--the NE corner and the Upper Green River Basin. The high rent Eastern press is filled with stories of no housing in Wyoming, the coming huge problems in Utah and Colorado, etc. in addition to the disaster in N. Dakota. The issue cuts across the usual political lines and it will be a formidable foe. Almost everything is on the side fracking: money for framers and ranchers, big money are business, tax monies for some states, energy independence, major job production (it is virtually impossible to be unemployed in N. Dakota or Wyoming)... The only groups who seem concerned are astronomers, a few environmentalists, and social workers. And for those considering retirement to the Four Corner area--take a close look at the new light pollution maps. Grim.

This is worthy of attention for all those who love dark skies.

Dark skies.

Jack


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mountain monk
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5664116 - 02/05/13 06:25 PM

And gas is $2.49 in Casper, WY. Anybody upset at that?

Dark skies.

Jack


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csa/montana
Den Mama
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Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5664212 - 02/05/13 07:29 PM

Ummm, let's stay with LP discussion not gas pricing.

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Plan9
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/28/08

Loc: Northern VA
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5670370 - 02/09/13 09:34 AM

Quote:

The only groups who seem concerned are astronomers, a few environmentalists, and social workers.




Jack, I share your concern, but I think this may be getting some more widespread attention now.

E.g., CNBC article (this is about the amount of flaring and states like N. Dakota being visible from space now).

Bill


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FirstSight
Duke of Deneb
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Reged: 12/26/05

Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: csa/montana]
      #5671167 - 02/09/13 06:31 PM

Quote:

Ummm, let's stay with LP discussion not gas pricing.




The price of gas is light pollution.


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mountain monk
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: FirstSight]
      #5671538 - 02/09/13 10:50 PM

Plan9: Thanks for the link--much appreciated.

First Sight: Indeed, literally.

Dark skies.

Jack


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mountain monk
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 11/06/09

Loc: Grand Teton National Park
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5671562 - 02/09/13 11:17 PM

And the problem will soon arrive in California--see this:

http://www.newtimesslo.com/cover/6555/californias-silent-oil-rush/

The main deposits lie between L.A. and San Francisco. That will sure be a bummer for California astronomers--as though the don't already have enough trouble with light pollution. Sort of like the opening scenes of Blade Runner.

Dark skies.

Jack


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herrointment
Post Laureate
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Reged: 03/12/11

Loc: North of Hwy. 64
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: mountain monk]
      #5672797 - 02/10/13 06:14 PM

And herein Wisconsin, home of numerous frac sand mines that run 24-7, the light domes mark each facility.

Let's hope the money is worth it.


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John Fitzgerald
In Focus
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Reged: 01/04/04

Loc: AR
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: herrointment]
      #5673838 - 02/11/13 11:07 AM

Why do they feel they have to light up every facility? Lighting does not equal security!

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csrlice12
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Reged: 05/22/12

Loc: Denver, CO
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA new [Re: John Fitzgerald]
      #5674053 - 02/11/13 01:18 PM

They need the lights in case that invisible, odorless gas tries to escape....it's worth money dontchaknow......

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George N
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA [Re: John Fitzgerald]
      #5674882 - 02/11/13 10:04 PM

Quote:

Why do they feel they have to light up every facility? Lighting does not equal security!




As far as I know they only light up the drill pads when work is being done there. The lights shining up on the drill rig are required by Fed regulation, and from what I’ve been told by the workers, they are absolutely necessary to their work. The lights come back when they need to re-frack the wells every 3 years or so. I don’t think that the gas flaring keeps up after a well is first finished. At least around Cherry Springs, the gas companies have agreed not to flare on dark weekends.

Perhaps nearly as bad are all of the lights on the many trucks bringing water, taking out brine, etc. Two years ago I experienced a convoy of 30 or more who staged right outside Cherry Springs Park and then drove down a dirt road next to the park around 3 am. It took the convoy a good 15 to 20 minutes to clear.

I’ve been told (but not seen) that they light up the central pumping stations on the gas lines. I assume that that is for “security”. While not “light pollution” (but perhaps annoying to observers), they have to run big diesel engines 24/7 to keep the pressure in the wells. That never goes away.


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zippeee
sage


Reged: 12/27/10

Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA [Re: George N]
      #5675701 - 02/12/13 12:01 PM

Welcome to my world. I'm certain that my fellow Albertans will attest to the fact that we suffer from this 'industry fed, light dome plague' worse than anybody else. Just look at the LP map . . . Alberta is basically outlined. We only have 3.5 million people here and for a province the size of Texas, that's an awful lot of light to be throwing out.



Every time I go to my darksite, I notice another small light dome.


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herrointment
Post Laureate
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Reged: 03/12/11

Loc: North of Hwy. 64
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA [Re: zippeee]
      #5676412 - 02/12/13 06:41 PM

Wow. I don't think of Canada and LP in the same sentence.

Then again I never thought I'd see oil money in Wisconsin.

We can all hope for the best!


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jwheel
professor emeritus


Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Fort Davis TX
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA [Re: herrointment]
      #5677335 - 02/13/13 10:04 AM

Here at the McDonald Observatory in West TX we have seen a little increase in light pollution. The main cause is from fracking that is happening to the north of us around the Pecos area. It is a very small amount but noticeable.

Joe Wheelock


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GeneT
Ely Kid
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Reged: 11/07/08

Loc: South Texas
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA [Re: zippeee]
      #5684281 - 02/16/13 09:25 PM

Quote:

Welcome to my world. I'm certain that my fellow Albertans will attest to the fact that we suffer from this 'industry fed, light dome plague' worse than anybody else. Just look at the LP map . . . Alberta is basically outlined. We only have 3.5 million people here and for a province the size of Texas, that's an awful lot of light to be throwing out.

Every time I go to my darksite, I notice another small light dome.




Sad--truly sad.


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northernontario
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 07/01/09

Loc: Porcupine, Ontario Canada
Re: Fracking & Light Pollution in PA [Re: John Fitzgerald]
      #5685297 - 02/17/13 02:04 PM

Quote:

Why do they feel they have to light up every facility? Lighting does not equal security!






jake


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