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txairman
member


Reged: 04/18/11

Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new
      #5664879 - 02/06/13 09:44 AM Attachment (20 downloads)

How does one attach a DSLR to the screw on top of Orion rings? No matter what I do, the camera is swinging around that screw, there's no way to fix it. The locking nut is totally useless and does nothing to prevent that. I tried to install partially threaded shorter screw but no matter how tight I screw it the camera still flexes and can easy unscrewed by slight push to the lens (due to moment and weight). What is the point of this mounting from Orion and what is the solution?

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KD58
sage
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Reged: 11/23/12

Loc: West Texas
Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: txairman]
      #5664915 - 02/06/13 10:11 AM

I was going to try attaching a ballhead to that screw through a 3/8 in adaptor but am glad that I chose a different route.

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howard929
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Reged: 01/02/11

Loc: Low End of High Ground
Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: txairman]
      #5665084 - 02/06/13 11:56 AM

I don't know anything about cameras or the thread size and pitch they use for mounting but I did find this thread adapter

HTH


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Madratter
Postmaster


Reged: 01/14/13

Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: howard929]
      #5665116 - 02/06/13 12:16 PM

I have a similar setup on the rings for my C6-RGT. They work fine with smaller lens where you don't have a lot of weight and a lot of moment. But if you are trying to piggy back longer lens like a 300 f/4 or something like that they are less than ideal. There is too much weight and moment and there just isn't enough area for the locking nut to grab onto. This is made worse by the fact that on an equatorial mount, the camera can be sideways. The weight of the camera and lens is then really working against you.

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Fogboundturtle
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Reged: 05/20/09

Loc: Burnaby, BC
Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: Madratter]
      #5665120 - 02/06/13 12:17 PM

I redd can't attach camera to onion rings.

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txairman
member


Reged: 04/18/11

Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: Madratter]
      #5665136 - 02/06/13 12:24 PM

The lens is 85mm, camera D90. It won't even hold camera without the lens. I doubt it's good to anything heavier than small point-and-shoot.

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txairman
member


Reged: 04/18/11

Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: Fogboundturtle]
      #5665153 - 02/06/13 12:31 PM

Yeah, I thought about the same while posting. In fact, the effect is similar - totally useless.

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cliffy54
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Reged: 03/14/10

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Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: txairman]
      #5665315 - 02/06/13 01:52 PM Attachment (12 downloads)

Am I missing something, My Canon attaches easely and very secure.

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txairman
member


Reged: 04/18/11

Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: cliffy54]
      #5665344 - 02/06/13 02:05 PM

If somebody is missing something it's probably me.
How on earth did you do that? What holds the camera from rotating? That locking nut didn't do it for me.


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cliffy54
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Reged: 03/14/10

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Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: txairman]
      #5665368 - 02/06/13 02:15 PM

Hi, I just screwed it on. 1st time I ever tried it. I don't know what to say wish I could help.

Although now that I look at it closer my screw looks longer, try removing the top washer?

Edited by cliffy54 (02/06/13 02:19 PM)


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michael hester
professor emeritus


Reged: 11/28/08

Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: cliffy54]
      #5665409 - 02/06/13 02:36 PM

That plastic part on the top doesn't look like it belongs there. The orientation retaining screw (that big wide black one) is a single unit and fairly standard and should fit snugly against your camera housing when the camera is attached. This is what keeps your camera from moving.

The previous post about a ball head is a good idea. For that I would completely remove any black screws from the top and thread the ball head onto the exposed screw until it is tight.

Finally there is a small chance that the screw itself may come loose. If that happens take a + Head screwdriver, open the ring and tighten the screw.


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Intensity2x
sage


Reged: 09/06/11

Loc: Northern NJ
Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: txairman]
      #5665543 - 02/06/13 03:42 PM

Assuming the bolt is the right size for your camera:

1) Screw the black circle all the way down (tighten)
2) Screw on your camera as much as you can with it still facing forward
3) unscrew (loosen) the black circle so that it tightens up against the camera.
4) done, everything should be tight


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txairman
member


Reged: 04/18/11

Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: Intensity2x]
      #5665780 - 02/06/13 06:14 PM

Thank you all guys for helping out. Ignore that washer part, I just added trying to get more snag fit. it didn't work without it either. Here's what happening, I think:

Nikon D90 is a heavy camera even without lens. My lens is pretty heavy too and long. There's simply not enough stopping friction from this plastic locking nut to overcome total moment, at least when tightened by hand.

I was able to tighten nut using plumbing wrench somewhat stable in neutral position (camera at 12 o'clock). But any side by side movements of the tube severely compromise this "stability". I can feel small flexes and vibrations of the 85mm lens. With the Nikon 200 f4 prime lens I can visually see it sagging downward. Any more lateral shake or finger push to the lens - and the moment of the camera can exceed the one of the screw/nut. The arrangement is weak on all counts: rotate tube to the left - nut comes loose, to the right - screw comes loose. I would not call this situation "stable and secure". The screw itself is pretty long and thin and is another source of non-damped vibrations.

So I guess the solution is to add support ring for the lens or use lighter camera/lens combination (and a plumbers wrench!).


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SteveNH
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Reged: 07/10/11

Loc: Millbrae, CA
Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: txairman]
      #5665974 - 02/06/13 08:35 PM

Be careful when tightening the tripod screw into your camera, not to go in too far. There is a possibility of puncturing through the base of the camera into the electronics. As you say, the D80's and D90's are heavy bodies, as are Canon's 50D etc., but with lens, especially the heavier older prime lenses, the forces get pretty severe for that attachment screw.

I actually think you had the right idea with the washer part, but I would try a different material that's less resilient, such as thick card stock or cardboard built up to that thickness. Make the washer as large as the nut, because the larger contact area for the base of the camera is important for stability. The washer should be thick enough to allow no more than 2 to 3 turns of thread to go into the camera base, but not thin enough to hit the inside limit of the hole. That would cause instability, and as previously mentioned, the danger of puncturing the camera. The idea is for the threads to pull down on the camera against the washer and nut by tightening the nut against the camera as in Intensity2x's Step (3), above.

The camera unit, including lens, should ideally be balanced at its mounting point (the tripod hole), just like your OTA would be on your mount. On the larger primes, Nikon provides a tripod mount to help achieve this goal, although it's not always there. Needless to say, whenever it's available, it should always be used in lieu of the one on the camera.


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ZeroID
sage


Reged: 04/21/10

Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: SteveNH]
      #5666050 - 02/06/13 09:27 PM

I think the flexure in that setup is too great. I don't bother with it.

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Jarrod
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Reged: 01/20/13

Loc: SE USA
Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: txairman]
      #5669447 - 02/08/13 05:15 PM

If you can't get the locking nut tight enough to create enough friction hold the camera in place, then I'd think you want to try a washer that's larger (more surface area) than the nut, not smaller (or simply flip the lock nut over - the other side doesn't have any protrusions).

With a longer lens, you will want to use a tripod ring attached to the lens, that mounts the lens to the telescope ring. This will balance the weight to either side of the scope ring and should create less torque.

My 350D Rebel XT with the nifty 50 lens seems plenty secure on the standard Orion scope ring mount. But if I were to put my 70-200mm zoom on, I'd mount it via the tripod ring that attaches to the lens.

You could try a mini ball mount, but in the end you'll be dealing with the same amount of torque where it attaches to the scope ring. I have the Giottos MH1004 and it's pretty nice. But I haven't used it to mount the camera yet - I use it to mount the Orion smartphone holder to the female 1/4-20 threads on the other scope ring...

Edited by Jarrod (02/09/13 12:23 PM)


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tkobyrne
member


Reged: 07/14/07

Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount new [Re: Jarrod]
      #5670135 - 02/09/13 04:25 AM

I moved the mount screw to the back ring.
For the front ring I went to the hardware store and picked up a pipe hanger that fit my lens. Sorry I do not know the actual name for it but it is the kind used for electrical conduit. An open top circle that bolts tight(get a wing nut while your there) with a bump on the bottom that you insert a screw through and into the ring. Use 3 nuts, 1 inside the ring, 1 under the ring to hold the ring at the right hight, and the third to lock the screw to the ring. Line the ring with felt or rubber to protect the lens. My rings were to close so I have to losen the wing nut a little to focus but it also prevents the lens from shifting focus when positioned at odd angles for long exposers.
Tom


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Jarrod
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Reged: 01/20/13

Loc: SE USA
Re: Unable to attach DSLR to Orion rings camera mount [Re: tkobyrne]
      #5670594 - 02/09/13 11:56 AM

I played with this some this morning. Yes, this is not a very secure post. After manipulating the mount and trying to get it really tight, the threaded rod can become loose in the ring at which point all bets are off. I expect this is what txairman experienced. If you pull the felt tape off the inside of the scope ring, you can see how to re-secure the threaded post to the ring. I'm going to back mine out and use thread lock compound to help keep it secure:




Also, I found that using a mini ball mount does help. For some reason it is easier to secure the ball mount to the scope ring than it is for the camera. Also, it entirely sidesteps the issue of loosening the post from the scope ring, and/or the camera when you adjust position, because the ball mount (at least the one I posted above) spins freely about the locked post when you free the ball to adjust the camera.

Edited by Jarrod (02/09/13 12:40 PM)


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