vahe
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/27/05
Loc: Houston, Texas
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Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
#5663216 - 02/05/13 10:00 AM
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A general question regarding the use of wide angle eyepieces with fat bellies in AP/Baader binoviewers.
In addition to being huge and heavy some of these fat belly eyepieces can potentially prevent close interpupillary adjustment, my question primarily applies to Pentax XL and XW eyepieces, does anyone know and would comment on the potential issues in connection with these Pentax eyepieces when used in binoviewer?
Vahe
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teskridg
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/15/08
Loc: PA
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: vahe]
#5664464 - 02/05/13 11:04 PM
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I demoed the Pentax 20mm XW's with a binoviewer and found them to be too fat for my nose. Eddgie reports that these can be slimmed down by removing the shroud and as I didn't own these eyepieces I couldn't verify this. The 21 mm Denkmeier eyepieces which I don't own, may be a better fit as are definitely the 19mm and 24mm Panoptics, which I do own. I would guess most people who respond here will prefer the Pentax XW's, but unless you wear glasses and need 20mm eye relief, I think the others would be more comfortable in terms of IPD and "nose relief". Tim
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johnnyha
Postmaster
Reged: 11/12/06
Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: teskridg]
#5664716 - 02/06/13 07:03 AM
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I am not comfortable with the sheer weight of the XWs for binoviewing.
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Eddgie
Postmaster
Reged: 02/01/06
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: teskridg]
#5664773 - 02/06/13 08:09 AM
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Just a quick correction... I have Hyperions and found that you can get a bit of extra clearance by removing the silicone thread covers on the shoulder.
Don't own any Pentax eyepeices, so just wanted to make sure the OP knows that.
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Keith-in-Texas
member
Reged: 10/16/06
Loc: Stephenville, TX
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: vahe]
#5665956 - 02/06/13 08:19 PM
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Hello Vahe,
I obtained Pentax XW10, XW14 and XW20 pairs for use with my Badder Mark V binoviewers.
Due to an incredible work travel schedule I have had a limited time that I have been able to use them, but on those occassions I didn't have any issues using the XW's with my binoviewers.
I didn't have to remove anything or modify the XW's in any way for me to comfortably use them with the Mark V's. The last time I used them I also had two neighbors over and they were both able to use them comfortably as well.
The views of the moon with this set up in my TEC 200MC were quite incredible. I've also recently picked up a second set of Brandon eyepieces and will be comparing their performance to the XW's for binoviewing as I certainly like their lighter weight for binoviewer use.
If I win the lottery, I might even try a pair of the latest Leica ASPH Vario-Zoom eyepieces to see if they will best the XW's and the Brandons. 
For what it's worth, I checked a couple of my eyeglass prescriptions to find out my measured Pupillary Width or IPD. Following is that info:
Reading: 60-61
Distant: 63-64
I hope you find this feedback useful!
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vahe
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/27/05
Loc: Houston, Texas
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: Keith-in-Texas]
#5666609 - 02/07/13 08:11 AM
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Quote:
I didn't have to remove anything or modify the XW's in any way for me to comfortably use them with the Mark V's. The last time I used them I also had two neighbors over and they were both able to use them comfortably as well.
The views of the moon with this set up in my TEC 200MC were quite incredible. I've also recently picked up a second set of Brandon eyepieces and will be comparing their performance to the XW's for binoviewing as I certainly like their lighter weight for binoviewer use.
Thanks for your feedback, that answers my question.
Good to hear that you have a TEC200, those are nice scopes, I have three TEC Maks including 200/20 and use them primarily on planets with the same Zeiss/Baader binoviewer, my favorite planetary eyepiece pair for this scope are 24-Brandons, semi-wide angle and about as good as 25ZAO-1.
I have two wide angle pairs that I can use for the Moon with this scope, Panoptic 19 & 22, but do want to try one of the Pentax wides to see how they stack up with Panoptics, either XL or XW as I hear good things about their overall image quality.
Vahe
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: vahe]
#5666926 - 02/07/13 11:41 AM
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Hi Vahe-
I think a lot of it depends on a persons facial structure, nose build, & IPD. My IPD is (iirc) ~62mm, and as such i've BV'd pairs of Pentax XL's, Vixen LVW's, and even a pair of Nagler 12T4's. The Naglers were nearly touching each other, but i could still easily & comfortably get both eyes into (& nose *under*) them.
If you're already BVing Pan 22's (also wide-girth EPs), i would think the Pentax should also work?
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teskridg
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/15/08
Loc: PA
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: Mike B]
#5669683 - 02/08/13 08:00 PM
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My nose is such that the XW's were too wide. My IPD is actually adequate and you'd think the eye relief would allow me back my freaking nose away, but au contraire. Tim
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: teskridg]
#5670633 - 02/09/13 12:18 PM
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Yeah, IPD is merely half the equation; the OTHER half is the nose- its size & placement hi/lo on the face. I've sometimes joked that Jimmy Durante prob'ly wasn't a bino-viewer fan.... but it's just possible, if his eyes were set high enough on his face (relative to his famous schnoz), he could've BV'd just fine.
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Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/10/11
Loc: Switzerland
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: Mike B]
#5670737 - 02/09/13 01:18 PM
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Quote:
I've sometimes joked that Jimmy Durante prob'ly wasn't a bino-viewer fan....
 
Stephan
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Stellarfire
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/10/11
Loc: Switzerland
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: teskridg]
#5681262 - 02/15/13 11:51 AM
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Pentax should consider a slightly modified, more binoviewer-friendly version of the XW. Reducing the XW's shroud diameter by ~2mm would drastically improve its bino-friendliness.
TeleVue did the same with the Ethos 13mm: Narrowing the barrel diameter from 63.5mm (Version I) to 62.0mm (Version II) makes it more binoviewer friendly for observers with ~62mm IPD's.
Stephan
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Stephen S
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/21/07
Loc: Evansville, IN
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: Stellarfire]
#5684360 - 02/16/13 10:30 PM
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I have an IPD of 65 and the 10mm Pentax XWs work just fine for me. I'm using them with a Siebert Black Night binoviewer and a TV NP101. Have not had a chance to use them much but when I have, they were quite comfortable to use (once I got the scope appropriately rebalanced).
As for hoping Pentax might redesign the XWs, I would not hold out much hope of this happening. I am delighted they are sticking with the XW series. That said, I don't see them investing in the development of new astronomy related items. Fortunately, the XWs need little change to be excellent.
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Hermie
sage
Reged: 04/20/05
Loc: Cloudy HKG
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: Stephen S]
#5684602 - 02/17/13 03:34 AM
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Mike B summed it up nicely. I must be related to Jimmy D.
With an IPD of 64mm, I can use my LVW22s, but I have to look "up" about 30 degrees. Not completely comfortable, but doable. For me XWs would be out of the question.
Hermie
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johnnyha
Postmaster
Reged: 11/12/06
Loc: Sherman Oaks, CA
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: Hermie]
#5684934 - 02/17/13 10:46 AM
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Pentax XW - the top can be unthreaded and completely removed, then the rubber sheath can be removed from the remianing housing giving a few more mm IPD.
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Arizona-Ken
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/31/08
Loc: Scottsdale, Arizona
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: johnnyha]
#5695661 - 02/22/13 09:19 PM
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If you are fortunate enough to be using XW eyepieces, do what you have to, to make them work. In my C11, I often spend the whole night just using a pair of XW 20s with my EarthWin binoviewer that has the power switch, with the focal reducer and barlow modes.
Many experienced observers have looked through my setup, and usually spend a looong time looking. Almost every time I get the question, "and what are these eyepieces in the scope?"
XWs are one of the premium eyepiece lineups, and as a pair, are more than twice as good!
Arizona Ken
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Starman81
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 03/06/08
Loc: Metro Detroit, MI, USA
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Re: Binoviewer and fat belly eyepieces
[Re: Arizona-Ken]
#5702533 - 02/26/13 09:37 PM
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I paired up my XW 20 for successful binoviewing in the 8SE. My nose is kind of wide (I think) but perhaps the bridge of my nose is less wide. My IPD is 71mm+, so maybe that helped. But it was only one quick session binoviewing the moon from indoors, to see if it could be done.
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