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Skip
Starlifter Driver
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Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
NEO Asteroid DA14 new
      #5674059 - 02/11/13 01:23 PM

I was wondering if any of our UK friends are going to try to observe asteroid DA14 as it passes 21,200 miles from us on February 15. I know y'all have been having terrible weather for observing over there. But hopefully it'll clear off around the time the rock goes zinging past us. You would have to be at a pretty dark site to see it naked eye. But you might luck out and catch it in your scope. At its brightest it'll only be about mag 7.

The thing is about 50 meters across and weighs in at about 130,000 metric tons. Whew, glad it's going to miss! That could ruin your whole day.

I found a link over in the SASE forum for interested UK observers that might be helpful. Linky-dink-a-roo


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cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Skip]
      #5674473 - 02/11/13 05:11 PM

We (Wycombe Astro Society) plan to have a go, we have a viewing session planned for a group of Scouts in any case.

But the forecast isn't encouraging, currently it's "partly cloudy" whatever that means.

Chris


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Tel
Postmaster
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Reged: 03/31/06

Loc: Wallingford England
Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: cn register 5]
      #5675233 - 02/12/13 04:06 AM

Hi Skip,

Many thanks for the "heads up" on Asteroid DA14.

If I get the chance, I might try imaging it but I fear that as almost always for these "one off" events, and as Chris has already mentioned, the weather will likely be against us.

Best regards,
Tel


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Arthur Dent
Galactic Hitch-Hiker
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Reged: 10/23/08

Loc: South Yorkshire, UK
Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: cn register 5]
      #5675252 - 02/12/13 04:39 AM

Quote:

We (Wycombe Astro Society) plan to have a go, we have a viewing session planned for a group of Scouts in any case.

But the forecast isn't encouraging, currently it's "partly cloudy" whatever that means.

Chris




That means that whichever part of the sky you wish to observe or point your telescope at, that part is cloudy!

Another definition of "partly cloudy" is that it is only the celestial hemisphere that you can see that is cloudy. The other hemisphere is clear (Yin and Yang). More accurately, people should say "this part is cloudy" rather than "partly cloudy".

I thought everyone knew this

Art


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Peter9
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Reged: 10/30/08

Loc: Yorkshire - Born & Bred
Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Arthur Dent]
      #5675307 - 02/12/13 06:30 AM

Hi Skip,

Visually DA14 will be difficult to observe even if the sky is clear. At best, over Eastern Europe, it will be around mag 8. By the time it is over Western Europe (us) it''s estimated to be around mag 10/11.

With the co - ords and clear skies (pigs might fly) I will have a go. Would be good to catch a glimpse.

Good luck with your efforts Tel and thanks for the info Skip.

Regards. Peter.


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Tel
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Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Peter9]
      #5675335 - 02/12/13 06:59 AM

Thanks Peter.

I have no particular problem with magnitude, (within reason), because I'll be using a camera instead of the Mk.1 eyeball, so I should see DA14 as a streak of light crossing a relatively large field of static background stars produced from my f/5.9 refractor, much in the way one sees an unwanted meteor crossing one's hard won attempts to image some beautiful, celestial object.

In this case, however, such a streak will be more than welcome and indicative of " I've Got it" ! !

Best regards,
Tel


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haytor
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 11/29/07

Loc: Smethwick near Birmingham UK.
Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Tel]
      #5675423 - 02/12/13 09:04 AM

Many thanks Skip for high lighting this event, i was already aware of DA14 via the recent Sky at night program from the BBC, Pete Lawrence (co presenter) mentioned DA14 would cross a line between Megrez and Alioth in the plough between 9.30. PM and 10.PM (UK time).

I wont comment on the weather

regards,

Tom.


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Skip
Starlifter Driver
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Reged: 01/23/08

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Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: haytor]
      #5675824 - 02/12/13 01:08 PM

Here's hoping SOMEONE gets an image and posts it here! That would be a real wallapalooza!


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Peter9
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Reged: 10/30/08

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Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Skip]
      #5675860 - 02/12/13 01:26 PM

Just to add Skip, if you go into "search" in Sky Safari, type in "2012 DA14" and it will give you all the info. You can pop it into your "Observers list" to keep track of it.

At present it is in Hydrus in the Southern Hem.

Regards. Peter.

Edited by Peter9 (02/12/13 03:04 PM)


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Arthur Dent
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Reged: 10/23/08

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Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Peter9]
      #5675943 - 02/12/13 02:14 PM

Hi Peter,

My version of Sky Safari Plus (updated the App only a few days ago) says "Not Found No objects found matching search string".

Doesn't make any difference if "DA" is in upper case or lower, or if I put a space in "2012 DA14", "2012 DA 14" or not "2012DA14".



Any ideas folks

Bri


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Arthur Dent
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Reged: 10/23/08

Loc: South Yorkshire, UK
Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Arthur Dent]
      #5675961 - 02/12/13 02:30 PM

OK - answered my own question.

In Sky Safari 3 (Plus or Pro) you can update the minor planet orbit database.







Interestingly, the App Store has just alerted me to the fact that Sky Safari 3 has an update - to version 3.7.3 (currently installing). Was this prompted by me updating the minor planet database I wonder?

Art


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Peter9
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Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Arthur Dent]
      #5675986 - 02/12/13 02:46 PM

Hi Art,

The new update corrects the orbit of 2012 DA14 and all others Asteroids.

Regards. Peter.


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cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Peter9]
      #5676288 - 02/12/13 05:00 PM

The positions in planetarium programs need to be treated with caution. This is because the Earth's gravity will have a huge effect on the orbit and the planetarium programs assume a two body solution, i.e. just the Sun's gravity. CdC was giving me positions over two hours ahead of the JPL/Horizons positions that do a full multi body solution.

Not my insight, I saw the difference and asked on the CdC forum.

Chris


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Peter9
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Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: cn register 5]
      #5677000 - 02/13/13 03:32 AM

Southern Stars state that the new version of SkySafari (3.7.3) takes into account the gravitational pull of the Earth, Moon, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn when calculating the orbit of 2012 DA14. There will be some discrepancies as they did not include Mercury, Uranus or Neptune + other related factors.

Regards. Peter.


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Arthur Dent
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Reged: 10/23/08

Loc: South Yorkshire, UK
Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Peter9]
      #5677030 - 02/13/13 04:54 AM

Quote:

Southern Stars state that the new version of SkySafari (3.7.3) takes into account the gravitational pull of the Earth, Moon, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn when calculating the orbit of 2012 DA14. There will be some discrepancies as they did not include Mercury, Uranus or Neptune + other related factors.

Regards. Peter.



So what you're saying is that after it swings around the Sun, it could potentially HIT us??

Art :-p


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Peter9
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Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 [Re: Arthur Dent]
      #5677045 - 02/13/13 05:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Southern Stars state that the new version of SkySafari (3.7.3) takes into account the gravitational pull of the Earth, Moon, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn when calculating the orbit of 2012 DA14. There will be some discrepancies as they did not include Mercury, Uranus or Neptune + other related factors.

Regards. Peter.



So what you're saying is that after it swings around the Sun, it could potentially HIT us??

Art :-p





NO!!!! It's already established that it WON'T hit us. The above just means that the position of 2012 DA14 given by SkySafari, and most other planetarium programs, will not be totally accurate. You need to know that if you are going to try and observe it. That probably wont apply to you.

Here's part of the post from Yahoo.com


"The solution was to build an "orbit integrator" into SkySafari. Instead of modelling the trajectory of the asteroid as a simple Keplerian ellipse, we now model it using true N-body newtonian physics, taking the gravitational perturbations of Earth (and the Moon, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn) into account, along with a decent numerical method (4th order Runge-Kutta). It took a few tries to get this right. After reaching out to some professionals in the field of solar system dynamics, we got some assistance JPL as well. JPL has made clear that they cannot officially endorse any commercial product, but I can confidently say they were impressed that we got this working on a smartphone at all.

We did take some shortcuts. Our model does not take relativity into account, nor the oblateness of the Earth. We also don't include Mercury, Uranus, or Neptune in the set of asteroid-perturbing masses. (Smartphones, whiie very capable, are still not supercomputers. The code still has to run fast enough to be useable.) Nevertheless, even with these shortcuts, our model predicts the position of 2012 DA14 to within arcseconds of JPL's positions on the day of the flyby and for many days before and after. We've even run our integrator out 9 years into the past or future, for a selection of different asteroids and comets, and in nearly all cases it does much better than a simple Keplerian orbit. So we're very confident that we're doing the math right.

Anyhow, that's the theory. In practice, here's what you need to know."

Regards. Peter.


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Widespread
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/11/11

Loc: Bowling Green, Kentucky
Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Peter9]
      #5677381 - 02/13/13 10:35 AM

I'm in the wrong location, but Space.com will have a webcast of NASA's Usstream feed.

http://www.space.com/19675-asteroid-2012-da14-flyby-nasa-webcast.html

Best,
David


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Arthur Dent
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Reged: 10/23/08

Loc: South Yorkshire, UK
Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Widespread]
      #5677724 - 02/13/13 01:45 PM

Peter,

Post was meant in jest hence the sig Art :-p


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Skip
Starlifter Driver
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Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Arthur Dent]
      #5678231 - 02/13/13 07:37 PM

Oh good grief! I'm gonna have to call Bill and say, "What do you mean you didn't take relativity into account? What kind of a software genius are you anyway?"

It still amazes me that they do what they do with that app. I love it!


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Skip
Starlifter Driver
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Reged: 01/23/08

Loc: Fort Worth, Texas, USA
Re: NEO Asteroid DA14 new [Re: Peter9]
      #5678238 - 02/13/13 07:42 PM

Hey Peter,
I'm don't really want to keep track of it. On the 15th I'm gonna crawl into a hole and cover my head. Just in case they were off that teensy weensy little bit!

I hope JPL took relativity into account!



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