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Observing >> Deep Sky Observing

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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland
Re: The Horsehead Nebula was easy in my ED80 new [Re: Widespread]
      #5676548 - 02/12/13 08:34 PM

Quote:

I saw IC434 last night for the first time, a dim hazy liver-shaped patch near Alnitak. I tried to spot the horsie, but alas.

I was using a 90mm f/7 refractor with 24ES68.

Good job on a tough target!

Best,
David




Congrats on IC434! To get the horsehead you'll want more than that 24mm, and a narrower FOV helps too. Get Alnitak out of the FOV and pump that mag up to 100-150x and the horsehead can be easier to see. Then backing the magnification back down you will recognize where the horsehead is at and will be able to pick it out much easier.


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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland
Re: The Horsehead Nebula was easy in my ED80 new [Re: george golitzin]
      #5676550 - 02/12/13 08:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

H-Beta ?




H-Beta refers to filters which pass only the bluish Hydrogen-Beta (H-Beta) emission line at 4861 angstroms. A proper narrow-band nebula filter like the Lumicon UHC, Orion Ultrablock, or DGM Optics NPB will also pass the H-Beta line, but on the Horsehead, the contrast of the object tends to be quite a bit higher when using the H-Beta filter. The very first time I got to clearly see the Horsehead was around 1980 or so, using a 10 inch f/5 Newtonian equipped with the "brand-new" (at the time) Lumicon UHC filter. After seeing that, I went over to my own 8 inch f/7 Newtonian and put the UHC in that scope. Sure enough, I could just see the Horsehead, although not as well as in that 10 inch. On most decent dark nights now, I can get at least a glimpse of the Horsehead in my scopes using just a narrow-band filter, although again, it is far easier using my H-Beta filter. I have also seen the Horsehead without a filter in my 10 inch Newtonian, but the nights when that is possible are quite rare, and even then, I generally prefer the filtered view. Indeed, one night from my magnitude 5.6 driveway, I caught the Horsehead in my 9.25 inch SCT at 59x using the Lumicon H-Beta filter. Without that filter, there was no trace of it or of the background IC 434 nebulosity. Clear skies to you.





David, I think Leviathan was asking the OP if he used an h-beta filter.

-g




If that's the case, then yes I was, for all 3 of the h-beta oriented targets I went after (b33, california, flaming star).


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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland
Re: The Horsehead Nebula was easy in my ED80 new [Re: blb]
      #5676555 - 02/12/13 08:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I saw IC434 last night for the first time, a dim hazy liver-shaped patch near Alnitak. I tried to spot the horsie, but alas.



Widespread, Are you sure you are looking at the correct nebula? The Flame Nebula, NGC 2024, looks more like a liver or a heart shaped fan east of Alnitak to me, but IC 434 looks like a line of nebulosity running south of Alnitak. If you take some time and continue looking at the Flame Nebula, maybe with some averted vision, you will see the dark nebula that gives this nebula it's name.

Zeldaboy, It is my experance that the darker and more transparent the sky is, the easier the nebula, IC 434, is to see. There have been a couple of really good nights in the last ten years that this nebula, IC 434 did appear much brighter than you normaly think when you think of it. I attribute this to a great night. Maybe that is what you experianced. Anyway, good catch.




That's exactly what we had, dark skies out over the chesapeake bay were easily mag 6 or better and transparency was a 5/5 after that huge front had just come through. We had one of the best winter milky ways naked eye views ever, with it clearly going down next to Canis Major and to the trees on the horizon.


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leviathan
sage


Reged: 11/29/11

Loc: Azerbaijan
Re: The Horsehead Nebula was easy in my ED80 new [Re: george golitzin]
      #5676916 - 02/13/13 01:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

H-Beta ?




H-Beta refers to filters which pass only the bluish Hydrogen-Beta (H-Beta) emission line at 4861 angstroms. A proper narrow-band nebula filter like the Lumicon UHC, Orion Ultrablock, or DGM Optics NPB will also pass the H-Beta line, but on the Horsehead, the contrast of the object tends to be quite a bit higher when using the H-Beta filter. The very first time I got to clearly see the Horsehead was around 1980 or so, using a 10 inch f/5 Newtonian equipped with the "brand-new" (at the time) Lumicon UHC filter. After seeing that, I went over to my own 8 inch f/7 Newtonian and put the UHC in that scope. Sure enough, I could just see the Horsehead, although not as well as in that 10 inch. On most decent dark nights now, I can get at least a glimpse of the Horsehead in my scopes using just a narrow-band filter, although again, it is far easier using my H-Beta filter. I have also seen the Horsehead without a filter in my 10 inch Newtonian, but the nights when that is possible are quite rare, and even then, I generally prefer the filtered view. Indeed, one night from my magnitude 5.6 driveway, I caught the Horsehead in my 9.25 inch SCT at 59x using the Lumicon H-Beta filter. Without that filter, there was no trace of it or of the background IC 434 nebulosity. Clear skies to you.





David, I think Leviathan was asking the OP if he used an h-beta filter.

-g



Exactly. My question was for Widespread, because IC434 in 90mm and without H-Beta is quite strange.

But thank you, David, for posting your experience.


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Widespread
professor emeritus


Reged: 05/11/11

Loc: Bowling Green, Kentucky
Re: The Horsehead Nebula was easy in my ED80 new [Re: blb]
      #5677121 - 02/13/13 07:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I saw IC434 last night for the first time, a dim hazy liver-shaped patch near Alnitak. I tried to spot the horsie, but alas.



Widespread, Are you sure you are looking at the correct nebula? The Flame Nebula, NGC 2024, looks more like a liver or a heart shaped fan east of Alnitak to me, but IC 434 looks like a line of nebulosity running south of Alnitak. If you take some time and continue looking at the Flame Nebula, maybe with some averted vision, you will see the dark nebula that gives this nebula .




I think you're right: it was the flame nebula that I saw. Sorry for the confusion.

Best,
David


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RolandosCY
super member


Reged: 01/02/09

Loc: Nicosia, Cyprus
Re: The Horsehead Nebula was easy in my ED80 new [Re: Widespread]
      #5677890 - 02/13/13 03:41 PM

Last night I had the chance to observe this area under SQM 21.10 skies with a darker southern horizon. IC434 and HH were visible with direct vision (albeit faint) with my 18", even at the low power of the 31mm Nagler. They were though totally transformed with H-Beta filters, getting that 3-D perspective, especially with my 19mm panoptic at 108x (full figure including snout fully visible, even to someone who had his first ever experience in deep sky).

The important part came when I looked though with NicosCY AT 152mm achromat. With 31mm Nagler and H-Beta I could get the whole complex (Alnitac, Flame, IC434, NGC 2023, and HH) visible. The Flame was definitely brighter than IC434, which was quite faint but still bright enough that the dark mass of the Horsehead could be discerned as a roundish blob in front of it. Increasing the magnification did make IC434 more easily visible (especially with Alnitac out of the field) and the HH could be more readily discerned. The view through the 6" refractor reminded me more of my first few succesful attempts at the HH with a 10" dob and a UHC filter.

H-Beta dcefinitely helps A LOT, but with sufficient aperture, IC434 and the HH can be seen whenever conditions allow, even with 3-6 inch refractors.

Has anyone ever spotted the IC434 / HH complex through binoculars? I suspect that it might be doable under pristine skies with 70mm or larger diameter glasses...


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RolandosCY
super member


Reged: 01/02/09

Loc: Nicosia, Cyprus
Re: The Horsehead Nebula was easy in my ED80 new [Re: RolandosCY]
      #5677963 - 02/13/13 04:28 PM

Quote:

Has anyone ever spotted the IC434 / HH complex through binoculars? I suspect that it might be doable under pristine skies with 70mm or larger diameter glasses...



I just found the answer to the above in my own favorites:

http://freescruz.com/~4cygni/horsehead/B33-3.htm


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blb
Post Laureate


Reged: 11/25/05

Loc: Piedmont NC
Re: The Horsehead Nebula was easy in my ED80 new [Re: RolandosCY]
      #5678034 - 02/13/13 05:18 PM

Quote:

Has anyone ever spotted the IC434 / HH complex through binoculars? I suspect that it might be doable under pristine skies with 70mm or larger diameter glasses



Phil Harrington recounts the time that he saw the Horsehead in a pair of binoculars at the Winter Star Party in his Binocular Universe coloum here on CN's.
See here for what he had to say.
I have never seen it with binoculars, but I have never looked for it with filters like Phil did. I have seen the Flame Nebula, NGC 2024, with my 10x50 and my 9.5x66mm binoculars from a dark site though. Give it a try and let us know the results.


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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland
Re: The Horsehead Nebula was easy in my ED80 new [Re: blb]
      #5678233 - 02/13/13 07:40 PM

I haven't seen IC434 or B33 with binos, but holding a filter in front of the eyepiece helps a lot. I did this with one side of my 15x70s when observing in the California Nebula at the Almost Heaven Star Party one time. In the unfiltered one it wasn't visible, in the filter one it was clearly visible and a fantastic view.

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drbyyz
sage
**

Reged: 11/04/12

Re: The Horsehead Nebula was easy in my ED80 new [Re: RolandosCY]
      #5678310 - 02/13/13 08:31 PM

Quote:

Has anyone ever spotted the IC434 / HH complex through binoculars? I suspect that it might be doable under pristine skies with 70mm or larger diameter glasses...




Phillip Creed said he had a great view of the HH through 25x100s in my thread on the HH:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5671697/page...


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GlennLeDrew
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/18/08

Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: The Horsehead Nebula was easy in my ED80 new [Re: drbyyz]
      #5678564 - 02/13/13 11:13 PM

Zeldaboy,
I'm confused. You wrote that you've not seen IC434/B33 in binos, yet state a "fantastic" view when holding a filter behind an eyepiece of a 15X70.


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zeldaboy101
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 03/13/04

Loc: Maryland
Re: The Horsehead Nebula was easy in my ED80 [Re: GlennLeDrew]
      #5678950 - 02/14/13 08:33 AM

The fantastic view was of the california nebula. When I wrote that using a filter helps a lot with binos, it was a general statement, I should've split the two subjects into different sentences.

Let me rephrase what I wrote:

I haven't seen IC434 or B33 with binos but I have not tried with a filter yet. Holding a filter in front of the eyepiece helps a lot when observing faint nebula in binos. I did this with one side of my 15x70s when observing the California Nebula; the unfiltered view did not show it, but the filtered view was fantastic.


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