Rossmon
sage
Reged: 07/09/10
Loc: Marin County, CA
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What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
#5676008 - 02/12/13 02:56 PM
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Hi I would like to simulate the famous hubble view of the oldest universe
stuff out there that is within range of amateur telescopes.
What are some of the best candidates to view. I will definitely use my Mallincam Xtreme to provide the best possible sensitivity.
I just want to be able to say, Wow, thats 2 billion light years away 
Ross
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orlyandico
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/10/09
Loc: Singapore
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Rossmon]
#5676018 - 02/12/13 02:59 PM
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3c273 is 2 billion LY away.
http://astrocpo.tripod.com/virgo/index.album/3c273?i=202&s=1
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Rossmon
sage
Reged: 07/09/10
Loc: Marin County, CA
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: orlyandico]
#5676025 - 02/12/13 03:01 PM
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3c273 is 2 billion LY away.
http://astrocpo.tripod.com/virgo/index.album/3c273?i=202&s=1
Cool, thats a great start. Wow a Quasar
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t.r.
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/08
Loc: Upstate NY
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Rossmon]
#5676075 - 02/12/13 03:24 PM
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Einstein Cross...8 billion LY away...but magnitude 16.8...can mallincam on your 155mm go that deep? Maybe your 10"...
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orlyandico
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/10/09
Loc: Singapore
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: t.r.]
#5676082 - 02/12/13 03:27 PM
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i have that one on my to-do list 
but resolving it would require me to barlow my C9.25 (separation is 0.6") and who knows how long an exposure would be required... Roland's image was 10 hours at f15.
not sure an AP155 can pull that off..
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Mark9473
Postmaster
Reged: 07/21/05
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: orlyandico]
#5676275 - 02/12/13 04:53 PM
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Things don't necessarily need to be very far away to be very old. The Milky Way's globular clusters are about 10 to 13 billion years old.
If you want to see the oldest photons, that's when distance becomes important.
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Rossmon
sage
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Loc: Marin County, CA
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Mark9473]
#5676818 - 02/12/13 11:38 PM
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oldest photons is the idea! and distance was
the main thought behind this post. however, your point is a goodun!
the quasar mentioned above is perfect for me at my home. due east is my best view. A Quasar hunting, I must go 
maybe tonight!
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Joe C
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Reged: 11/29/08
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Rossmon]
#5676987 - 02/13/13 03:05 AM
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At Mag 14.4, Q1634+706 in Draco may be obtainable from dark skies or with the help of a mallincam. It is 8.6B LY away.
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Eddgie
Postmaster
Reged: 02/01/06
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Rossmon]
#5677610 - 02/13/13 12:36 PM
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Yes, a difference between Oldest and furthers.
The furthest galaxies that Hubble has imaged have been about 13 billion miles away, and because of this, they have been red-shifted well into the infra-red portion of the spectrum.
To even have have a chance of seeing something this disant you will have to use a near infra-red filter.
Hubble has four near Ifra-red filters for this purpose.
But hubble also has image scale that you don't have. I doubt that your scope even with the correct infra-red filters would provide enough scale for these targets to even show as stellar points of light.
Not that you can't find galaxies way out there. It might be possible. But I don't think you will come close to reaching the distances that Hubble does even with infrared filter. They just won't have the angular size to show up as anything more than a single pixel on your camera.
Even in the hubble pictures, they often appear as only slightly bigger than stellar.
Again, not saying that you should not try to see how far you can go, but the best you will do is most likely fall well short of Hubble.
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Rossmon
sage
Reged: 07/09/10
Loc: Marin County, CA
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Eddgie]
#5677634 - 02/13/13 12:50 PM
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Yes, a difference between Oldest and furthers.
The furthest galaxies that Hubble has imaged have been about 13 billion miles away, and because of this, they have been red-shifted well into the infra-red portion of the spectrum.
To even have have a chance of seeing something this disant you will have to use a near infra-red filter.
Hubble has four near Ifra-red filters for this purpose.
But hubble also has image scale that you don't have. I doubt that your scope even with the correct infra-red filters would provide enough scale for these targets to even show as stellar points of light.
Not that you can't find galaxies way out there. It might be possible. But I don't think you will come close to reaching the distances that Hubble does even with infrared filter. They just won't have the angular size to show up as anything more than a single pixel on your camera.
Even in the hubble pictures, they often appear as only slightly bigger than stellar.
Again, not saying that you should not try to see how far you can go, but the best you will do is most likely fall well short of Hubble.
I Agree! I never even thought it was possible to come close to what the hubble can do with its deep field shots. Nope, I just want to get as far out as I can 
Got any possibilities?
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Eddgie
Postmaster
Reged: 02/01/06
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Rossmon]
#5677709 - 02/13/13 01:37 PM
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In terms of actual targets?
No, not right off hand.
But the NGC catalog is stuffed with distant, faint galaxies. I know because I have tried seeing a couple of hundred if them with my C14 and finally gave up.. LOL.
Anyway, just look for a couple of glaxies a a few thousand light years away and hammer away at them. Virgo has a hundred or so.
In fact, this might be a great place to start. Just aim your scope at Virgo and fire away.
Find the smallest, dimmest galaxy you can identify in the image and then use a chart to actually determine what its catalog number is, then find the distance in the catalog.
That actually might be fun. You would in essence be doing a "Hubble-like" study of your own.
Hubble though knows the distance due to the red shift. The galaxy in your picture might just be a small galaxy that is not far away.. So maybe you have to do this with several areas of sky to see what the furthers one you can image.
But Virgo is freaking loaded with galaxies and of the smallest, dimmist galaxies in your images, odds are that some are much more distant than others. A sample of 10 identified galaxies should give you an idea of what you can achieve.
http://www.nightskyatlas.com/ngcData.jsp?id=VIR
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Astrojensen
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/05/08
Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Eddgie]
#5677782 - 02/13/13 02:27 PM
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Anyway, just look for a couple of glaxies a a few thousand light years away and hammer away at them. Virgo has a hundred or so.
Actually, the Virgo galaxy cluster is about 60 million light years away... The galaxies in the Coma-Virgo-Ursa Major cluster are closer, at 20 - 30 million light years.
Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark
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Rossmon
sage
Reged: 07/09/10
Loc: Marin County, CA
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Astrojensen]
#5677831 - 02/13/13 03:03 PM
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I don't want to spend large amounts of time charting the heavens!
6-12 Far away objects will be fine. Bright dots are not all that interesting for me to look at repeatedly. Just the idea that I have been there looking thru my ota with my eyeballs is the reward. I spend my research time reading the works of those who earn their livlihood this way and have access to the finest professional gear available to them in the far off corners of our planet. My latest read, "Gravitys Engines" by Caleb Scharf.
So if anyone has a few more favorite real distant objects that would be cool.
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orlyandico
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 08/10/09
Loc: Singapore
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Rossmon]
#5677854 - 02/13/13 03:22 PM
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I did something like this (DIY Deep Field) as one of my projects at Swinburne Astronomy.
In my case I was able to reach Mag 20. This was 200 minutes worth of 20-minute subs on a (rented) FSQ-106 at GRAS in New Mexico, with an ST8300C. A mono camera would have gone deeper.
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Eddgie
Postmaster
Reged: 02/01/06
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Astrojensen]
#5678071 - 02/13/13 05:44 PM
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Yes, but as a "test" if he can't see these, he has no chance of seeing galaxies a couple of hundred thousand light years away. Tt would give him a benchmark for how far he might be able to go.
Edited by Eddgie (02/13/13 05:45 PM)
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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
Reged: 02/28/06
Loc: Petaluma, CA
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Rossmon]
#5679234 - 02/14/13 11:23 AM
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Your best bet is a quasar.
This one is the easiest, visually, but still by no means easy, and it's currently accessible later in the wee hours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3C_273
If you have reasonably dark skies, you won't even need a Mallincam; it's visually detectable in an unobstructed 6" under dark skies.
Regards,
Jim
Edited by jrbarnett (02/14/13 11:25 AM)
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Rossmon
sage
Reged: 07/09/10
Loc: Marin County, CA
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: jrbarnett]
#5679482 - 02/14/13 01:30 PM
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Yup, this one was pointed out earlier in this post, so I have already used some astro software to check its location. It actually seems to be in a visible part of the sky by about 9:30pm, perhaps even earlier.
I am hoping to give it a try tonight.
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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
Reged: 02/28/06
Loc: Petaluma, CA
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: Rossmon]
#5679533 - 02/14/13 01:47 PM
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We've had a fair amount of moisture in the air at night of late locally. You might want to wait until a bit later when it's near zenith to minimize extinction. Good luck, and please report back with your results.
Regards,
Jim
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Rossmon
sage
Reged: 07/09/10
Loc: Marin County, CA
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Re: What r the Oldest Objects 2C4 a 6" Refractor
[Re: jrbarnett]
#5679579 - 02/14/13 02:09 PM
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thanks for the tip Jim!
I'll try earlier and later if I have to. The weak link right now is my back which I tweaked recently helping my wife who fractured her shoulder last week.
I may need you to come over and mount my 155 for me! Either that or load up my np127 which I have not sold yet. Something to be said for a 14lb 5" fractor. II would keep it as my grabngo, if I could afford to.
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