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Dave MModerator
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/03/04

Loc: Ohio
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: careysub]
      #5687085 - 02/18/13 02:56 PM

Interesting..
http://rt.com/news/meteorite-lake-chebarkul-urals-432/


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edwincjones
Close Enough
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Reged: 04/10/04

Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: Ira]
      #5687619 - 02/18/13 07:28 PM

Quote:

I.want.a.piece.right.NOW!!

/Ira




I want a BIG piece-when the price drops on the tons of fragments recovered

hopefully

edj


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Reged: 04/07/05

Loc: Oort Cloud 9
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: edwincjones]
      #5687811 - 02/18/13 09:03 PM

http://astrobob.areavoices.com/2013/02/18/scientists-study-53-tiny-meteorites...

See that link for some great up-close photos of the recovered fragments.

This is obviously an L or H chondrite of some sort, probably an L5 or H5, from the lack of plentiful chondrules, highly-recrystallized nature of the visible matrix, and the crust appearance. It's also apparently shocked enough to produce plentiful dark shock veins, which are visible in these photos and a few other photos I have seen. This reminds me a lot of Park Forest in visual appearances.

Now that we know this (that the body was chondritic in nature), there is expected to be MUCH more material on the ground than what has been announced as "recovered" so far. Expect to see "new" specimens trickle out onto the market (institutional and private) as anonymous finders bring their finds to market over time. There are already reports of larger recovered masses being secretly held by finders who are waiting for "top dollar" to offer their pieces.

So, I think we will see this meteorite available on the collector market at some point in the near future, but I bet it will not be cheap. I expect it to be an expensive fall to acquire, based on the circumstances surrounding it (mass media attention, major damages, etc) and the history of comparable meteorites on the market in the past.

Many questions still remain - what is the petrology and chemistry of this particular meteorite, what is the parent body (if any known), what was it's exact orbit, and what (if any) anomalous characteristics it may have.

This the kind of exciting thing that makes meteorites so interesting - and this is good stuff from that perspective. Meteorite nuts like myself live for these events. And thank our lucky stars that nobody was killed - and that makes this entire story a little more positive and not quite so foreboding. Because this is also a stark reminder of how precious and precarious our position on this planet is.

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Reged: 04/07/05

Loc: Oort Cloud 9
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #5688020 - 02/18/13 11:00 PM

A warning to the overly-eager collector :

I just checked eBay (USA ebay site, not the various international eBay sites) for fragments of the Chebarkul/Chelyabinsk meteorite.

I did see a handful of listings for items offered as pieces of this meteorite, but I would not feel confident in bidding on any of them. Some are obvious fakes (from the photos provided) and the few with good photos were from unknown sellers with short feedback histories and scant details in the listings. Also, the photos were obviously borrowed from official media reports and do not show any original photos of the material apparently being offered.

In other words, it's still a little too soon to trust anything being offered on the major auction sites. When we see specimens from known or trustworthy sources, then I'd feel more confident in acquiring some. Things to look for - IMCA credentials, Meteoritical Society membership, longevity in the meteorite community with a history of reliable offerings, sources well-known to veteran collectors, etc.

There is always the chance that some random person local to the fall area will register as a new user on eBay and offer a genuine piece of the meteorite with some blurry photos and a description that is lacking in many ways. A buyer just might get lucky. And that kind of thought is what every internet scammer preys upon. The odds don't look good enough yet for this collector/dealer.

Buyer beware at this point.


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csa/montana
Den Mama
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Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #5688062 - 02/18/13 11:30 PM

Well Mike; I'll be on your list for one, when you start aquiring some fragments!

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oblako
member


Reged: 07/01/12

Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: csa/montana]
      #5688590 - 02/19/13 10:01 AM

Here's the Russian site http://www.avito.ru/chelyabinsk/kollektsionirovanie?name=%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%82%D... that offers fragments. Some sellers admit they are not sure what they are selling. For example this listing http://www.avito.ru/chelyabinsk/kollektsionirovanie/aeto_meteor_esli_da_to_zh... states:
"Is it a meteor, if "yes" I am waiting for your offer" Of course it is not a "meteor" :-) , and not a meteorite either.

And now I checked out EBAY auctions.
For example, this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/Meteorite-Russia-Cheljabinsk-Chebarkul-15-02-2013-/33... is not a meteorite, an least not a stony one. I sent PM to the guy who sells it, but I doubt he will remove the auction.

Edited by oblako (02/19/13 10:20 AM)


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careysub
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 02/18/11

Loc: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #5688736 - 02/19/13 11:52 AM

From a New York Times article from today's paper:

"M3-Media, a financial news site, reported that under Russian law a person can gain legal title to a meteorite, but only if it is reported to the authorities and submitted to a laboratory for tests. The laboratory will charge 20 percent of the estimated value of the object for certification, the site reported, citing the Russian Academy of Sciences."

"But this is Russia, so the excitement became tinged with anxiety on Monday as unknown cars appeared, cruising the streets and bearing men who refused to answer questions but offered stacks of rubles worth hundreds, then thousands, of dollars for the fragments. Strangely, no authorities were anywhere in sight."

The second paragraph recalls a comment I made a few days ago on this thread to the effect that everything is for sale in the New Russia, as long as the appropriate authorities get a cut. These mysterious men no doubt have arranged the necessary "understandings".


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Reged: 04/07/05

Loc: Oort Cloud 9
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: careysub]
      #5688781 - 02/19/13 12:14 PM

The NYT has a history of printing misinformation and bias against the private meteorite community. This has been addressed at length, in another forum, by most veteran members of the meteorite collector world.

This same article was brought up on that mailing list again today, and it is currently being discussed there - again. (*sigh*)

The rules are a little looser on that mailing list, and I can be a little looser with my words there than here, but here are some relevant excerpts from my rebuttals to the NYT errors and misrepresentations :

Quote:


The NYT is...the same publication that put out that hit-piece against meteorites last year where all of us were declared as a "black market" of illegal activity. It was little else besides slanderous statements, half-truths, and propaganda...

I recall the IMCA even wrote an official statement to rebut the lies and errors in the NYT article. You know an article is really really bad when the meteorite community feels it necessary to put together and release an official rebuttal.

Of course, this NYT article will get picked up by tons of news wires and aggregators who will republish and churn it back out endlessly. While it's new, unknowing people will repost and "like" or "recommend" the article on Facebook, further spreading the misinformation via social media. It's like a dirty...virus and I'm sure I won't be the only one today playing "damage control" on Facebook with this latest NYT torpedo-job.

This type of event is what makes me excited to wake up every morning and be involved in some small way with the world of meteorites and meteoritics. It's the reason almost everyone reading this is a member of a mailing-list like this - because Cherbarkul is what meteorite falls are all about. This is good good stuff and I loathe to see another rehash of the slanderous BS put out into the media. So if you are reading this, and later on you see a discussion in a forum/list/site somewhere about this event and somebody is quoting or referencing these error-filled NYT articles - please chime in politely but firmly and correct the misconceptions. It will be tedious, but it's necessary.





and ...

Quote:


The problem is, there are a few bad apples in the meteorite world. But they are an extreme minority in relation to the greater numbers of reputable and decent people involved with meteorites. That is true for every group of people on Earth, no matter how big or small. If one chooses to be biased, selective, and narrowly-focus on a single negative anecdote, then anything can be made to look bad. The art of the "spin"....





I tried to edit my comments to bring them into compliance with Cloudy Night's TOS. I hope I succeeded while getting message across.

Best regards,

MikeG

PS - in other words, private meteorite collecting and trading is NOT illegal and is far from it.


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Dave MModerator
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Reged: 08/03/04

Loc: Ohio
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: csa/montana]
      #5689389 - 02/19/13 05:57 PM

Quote:

Well Mike; I'll be on your list for one, when you start aquiring some fragments!




Make sure you get me one also


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ZielkeNightsky
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 10/01/06

Loc: Denmark
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: Dave M]
      #5689462 - 02/19/13 06:43 PM

Yep, I'm definitely also in the market for a complete stone.
(Rather small I guess)

It will awesome to take such a stone out of vault and start tell stories, 10 years from now.


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rfinney
sage
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Reged: 01/17/07

Loc: Austin, TX
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #5689754 - 02/19/13 09:24 PM

Quote:

The NYT has a history of printing misinformation and bias against the private meteorite community.




Mike:

Good comments - I am also surprised that the NYT once again printed "trade in material from meteorites is largely illegal" - which is absolutely false.

I wrote a letter when the first NYT article was published which has since been widely circulated between scientists, collectors, and dealers - and for those who are interested - you can read it here:

http://www.meteoritecollector.org/viewpoints.html

I have also referenced the relevant laws on my website:

http://www.meteoritecollector.org/exportlaws.html

Best Regards,

- RF


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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: rfinney]
      #5701342 - 02/26/13 10:25 AM

Has there been any estimation of the size and/or speed of the chunk that made the hole in the ice?

Is there a realistic chance of recovering any of it?

It will be interesting to see the strewn field map.

I LOVE this stuff!!


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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
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Reged: 04/07/05

Loc: Oort Cloud 9
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: Mister T]
      #5705665 - 02/28/13 04:17 PM

Preliminary classification is ready - LL5 chondrite with a shock rating of 4.

It hasn't been officially approved by Met Soc yet, but this is the first step. I expect official approval will come quick on this one, given the global attention it captured.

Stay tuned.


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Dick Lipke
professor emeritus
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Reged: 02/20/07

Loc: Marine City,Mich.
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: Glassthrower]
      #5723492 - 03/10/13 08:26 AM

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130307124554.htm

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ZielkeNightsky
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 10/01/06

Loc: Denmark
Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: Dick Lipke]
      #5732811 - 03/14/13 07:39 PM

What a wonderful day.

A small complete stone from the fall was added to my collection today. Beautiful black crust, so fresh.... well I'm happy, so happy that I've I'm getting a small broken fragment.


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AFAdrenaline
sage


Reged: 12/08/10

Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: ZielkeNightsky]
      #5739993 - 03/18/13 02:16 AM

congrats! pics?

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peter scherff
sage


Reged: 07/11/06

Re: Meteorite over Russia new [Re: AFAdrenaline]
      #5740275 - 03/18/13 09:06 AM Attachment (10 downloads)

I have had an opportunity to see samples of the Chelyabinsk
meteorite. I think that these stones are almost as distinctive as the
fireball was spectacular.
Many samples have deep fractures.
Many samples have patches of reddish fusion crust. The reddish
crust may be secondary crust. It formed on broken surfaces or perhaps
in the lower portions of regmaglypts. The reddish crust is smoother
than the primary crust.
Some samples have a brownish "dusty" appearance. Despite
being freshly collected.
Here are some images of the sample in my collection:


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peter scherff
sage


Reged: 07/11/06

Re: Meteorite over Russia [Re: peter scherff]
      #5740277 - 03/18/13 09:06 AM Attachment (12 downloads)

another view:

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peter scherff
sage


Reged: 07/11/06

Re: Meteorite over Russia [Re: peter scherff]
      #5740278 - 03/18/13 09:07 AM Attachment (13 downloads)

and a final view:

Thanks,

Peter


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csa/montana
Den Mama
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Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: montana
Re: Meteorite over Russia [Re: peter scherff]
      #5740552 - 03/18/13 11:46 AM

An amazing speciman; and I believe the first one, in our little group here!

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