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Observing >> Deep Sky Observing

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azure1961p
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Reged: 01/17/09

Loc: USA
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: CelestronDaddy]
      #5617203 - 01/11/13 12:37 PM

I've found 200x with my 8" is ideal. I can rsolve them at lower mags but the airy discs are well defined at 200x and so it looks text book. Averted vision is very important, look just a few arc seconds above the trap on the e f side of the trapezoid asterism and that's how I see them simultaneously. But as mentioned in poor seeing both can be utterly erased out of existence.

Pete


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CelestronDaddy
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 08/22/09

Loc: Central Texas
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: azure1961p]
      #5617519 - 01/11/13 04:09 PM

Quote:

I've found 200x with my 8" is ideal. I can rsolve them at lower mags but the airy discs are well defined at 200x and so it looks text book. Averted vision is very important, look just a few arc seconds above the trap on the e f side of the trapezoid asterism and that's how I see them simultaneously. But as mentioned in poor seeing both can be utterly erased out of existence.

Pete




Pete - I'll keep trying for F and maybe I'll catch it when conditions are better. I don't have a barlow right now so the best I can do with EP is around 150x. I think my next purchase will be a decent 2x barlow instead of a higher power EP. I tried using averted vision but just couldn't get F. Do you utilize a barlow of some sort or just higher power EP's? Maybe my 53 year old eyes aren't cooperating E faded out sometimes but for the most part I could readily pick it up... Tony


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drbyyz
sage
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Reged: 11/04/12

Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: CelestronDaddy]
      #5619758 - 01/12/13 08:16 PM

Finally "logged" F last night under decent conditions at 167x.

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CelestronDaddy
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 08/22/09

Loc: Central Texas
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: drbyyz]
      #5619805 - 01/12/13 09:00 PM

Way to go! Glad you got it, g...

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jacobmarchio
sage


Reged: 08/30/12

Loc: Alabama
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: CelestronDaddy]
      #5681132 - 02/15/13 10:47 AM

Hi all,
Sorry for the long delay in posting, we've had some bad weather for a long time. Anyway, got them last night ! The moon was up, and I used my C9.25. The corrector had some dew, so I'm sure that didn't help. Used a magnification of 235x (25mm Plossl w/ 2.5x PowerMate). Pretty positive about both of them. They are a lot dimmer than I thought- but maybe the moon and a dewy corrector caused this. Went over to try it in my 6", but the secondary was literally dripping with dew, so I couldn't there. The sct corrector gradually got more dew through the night. I will say that having a tracking mount and a chair helps!


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Starman1
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Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5681186 - 02/15/13 11:14 AM

Quote:

Hi all,
Sorry for the long delay in posting, we've had some bad weather for a long time. Anyway, got them last night ! The moon was up, and I used my C9.25. The corrector had some dew, so I'm sure that didn't help. Used a magnification of 235x (25mm Plossl w/ 2.5x PowerMate). Pretty positive about both of them. They are a lot dimmer than I thought- but maybe the moon and a dewy corrector caused this. Went over to try it in my 6", but the secondary was literally dripping with dew, so I couldn't there. The sct corrector gradually got more dew through the night. I will say that having a tracking mount and a chair helps!



Though it won't prevent dew forever, a dew shield on the SCT will help.
Most are poorly designed. A good dew shield should be:
--insulating. Where it wraps around the scope it should insulate the cell of the corrector from cooling against a cold atmosphere
--be very non-reflective inside. Flocking is good.
--be at least 1.5X the aperture in length. Many commercial dewshields are too short.

Even here in southern California, an SCT without a dewshield starts dewing over in 20 minutes. With a dewshield, maybe by 3-4am.

It also helps to keep the corrector clean and free from dust.


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jacobmarchio
sage


Reged: 08/30/12

Loc: Alabama
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Starman1]
      #5681468 - 02/15/13 01:16 PM

I do have a dew shield (it's an Astrozap shield), and it was on Believe it or not, it started dewing up while I was aligning the mount . I guess it takes more than a dew shield to even delay dew here.

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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
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Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5681494 - 02/15/13 01:25 PM

Quote:

I do have a dew shield (it's an Astrozap shield), and it was on Believe it or not, it started dewing up while I was aligning the mount . I guess it takes more than a dew shield to even delay dew here.



Yeah, I grew up in Indiana, where the dew point was reached when the temperature fell 2 or 3 degrees. Out here the temperature has to fall 20 degrees or more to reach the dewpoint, indicating the lesser amount of atmospheric water vapor.

Sometimes it helps to keep the scope horizontal, if the dewpoint is already reached, for a half-hour after the heaviest dewing. The relative humidity often drops then.
But it sounds like you needed a heated dewshield, or at least I can foresee one in your future.


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la200o
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/09/08

Loc: SE Michigan, USA
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars [Re: Starman1]
      #5681767 - 02/15/13 03:21 PM

I couldn't use my CPC without a heated dewshield here in Michigan.

Bill


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nevy
professor emeritus
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Reged: 02/07/12

Loc: UK
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: la200o]
      #5687231 - 02/18/13 04:08 PM

In my 12" dob the E star is easily seen , I could never see the F star until I installed a fan blowing on the back of the mirror , now it's there , if the fan isn't running I noticed it would be hidden by a bit of flairing from the main star , also I've seen for the first time , the pup ( companion to Sirius ) a few nights ago , the first time I tried the scope with the new fan running.

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CelestronDaddy
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 08/22/09

Loc: Central Texas
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: nevy]
      #5688961 - 02/19/13 01:58 PM

I was out the other night when conditions were good. I had let my 6SE acclomate for an hour and had intentions to try for Sirius B. I started, however, with the trapezium. I was able to pick up E and F at about 136X. F was fairly constant so I knew conditions were good. I next tried Rigel and was able to see B at 136X and 60X. I then tried for Sirius B. I thought I saw B but it was hard to tell for sure. The trapezium really looked nice though. It was the first time I could see F with the 6SE and I was pleased....

Edited by CelestronDaddy (02/19/13 03:31 PM)


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JIMZ7
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Reged: 10/22/05

Loc: S.E.Michigan near DTW
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: CelestronDaddy]
      #5700593 - 02/25/13 09:21 PM

After years of refractors from 80mm to 105mm and only 4 stars in the Trapezium, I finally was able to see E & F thru my Discovery 10" f/5.6 Dob tonight. The full Moon(I think)was rising in the east thus the sky was slowly getting brighter. I still managed to use my Televue 10.5mm Plossl at 135x with E & F easily resolved. Its been a long 6 years since I last saw them.

Jim


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CelestronDaddy
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 08/22/09

Loc: Central Texas
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: JIMZ7]
      #5701368 - 02/26/13 10:39 AM

Jim - WTG!

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REC
Post Laureate
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Reged: 10/20/10

Loc: NC
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: JIMZ7]
      #5701483 - 02/26/13 11:42 AM

That's pretty good, I have problems just getting the E star in my 8"!

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cpsTN
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 04/26/07

Loc: Rutherford Co, TN
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5702373 - 02/26/13 08:07 PM

Quote:

You just need to catch them on a moonless night with good seeing and good transparency at a dark site. Then it's easy. Mike




You mean buying a car is easy if someone else pays for it? Anyway, seeing here in Mid- TN is bad at best most of the time, or so it seems. I have been trying for the last several days - the days that aren't clouded over - to see more than 4 in the Trap. I am beginning to think someone moved my house to England while I slept!


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CelestronDaddy
scholastic sledgehammer
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Reged: 08/22/09

Loc: Central Texas
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: cpsTN]
      #5702414 - 02/26/13 08:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

You just need to catch them on a moonless night with good seeing and good transparency at a dark site. Then it's easy. Mike




You mean buying a car is easy if someone else pays for it? Anyway, seeing here in Mid- TN is bad at best most of the time, or so it seems. I have been trying for the last several days - the days that aren't clouded over - to see more than 4 in the Trap. I am beginning to think someone moved my house to England while I slept!






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JIMZ7
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 10/22/05

Loc: S.E.Michigan near DTW
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: REC]
      #5703331 - 02/27/13 11:35 AM

I use to have a Meade 826C 8" F/6 reflector & I always saw E & F with Meade 10.5mm & 7mm RG Orthos working at 116x & 174x in magnitude 4 skies.

Jim


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Sarkikos
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: jacobmarchio]
      #5703350 - 02/27/13 11:42 AM

Recently I split the six Trap stars with my C6 SCT under decent seeing. With an XO 5.1mm in the focuser for 294x, I could see the E and F stars. E was visible nearly all the time. I could see F for over half the time. My Baader Classic Ortho 10mm at 150x still showed the E star fairly consistently, but F was only glimpsed now and then.

So it's not that difficult for a 6" telescope - even an SCT! - to split the Trap's E and F.

Mike


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stratocaster
sage
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Reged: 10/27/11

Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5703566 - 02/27/13 01:54 PM

I think seeing E and F is much more related to seeing if you have decent optics. I've been able to see it with my 4" refractor on multiple occasions. Though I remember the first time I saw them in my 10" dob on a good night about a year ago. All six stars glowing like little diamonds. Very exciting.

Then there was that night when I tried to see the trapezium at a dark sky site with that same 10" scope. Couldn't see E or F to save my life.


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Sarkikos
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: Can't Split The 6 Trapezium Stars new [Re: stratocaster]
      #5703572 - 02/27/13 02:00 PM

Yes, at my dark site it's dependent on the seeing whether or not I'll see E and F with my 10" Dob.

Mike


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