Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Mounts

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)
highertheflyer
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 07/08/05

Loc: Ft. Worth, Texas
This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers?
      #5688945 - 02/19/13 01:49 PM

Why oh why are the telescope companies so enamored with serial controllers?
I have been plagued with their glitches and crashes for years as I try to connect.
To load a Serial to USB controlling a telescope mount can easily become a nightmare, so come on mount manufactures...!!!!!.
Please, please come up with updates that will allow us to work with newer computers and not get entangled with com port troubles and the errors that follow.
Thank you so much for your understanding.
Jim


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
StarmanDan
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/27/07

Loc: Deep in the heart of Texas
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: highertheflyer]
      #5689024 - 02/19/13 02:42 PM

IMO, I think most manufacturers are staying with RS-232 as it is (at least for me) more reliable and you can use it over longer distances than USB without needing any fancy adapters or converters. It would be nice though to see USB supported with maybe a built in USB hub in the mount to reduce cable clutter.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
highertheflyer
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 07/08/05

Loc: Ft. Worth, Texas
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: StarmanDan]
      #5689199 - 02/19/13 04:19 PM

The troubles I run into are that every modern computer comes with just USB ports.
Those USB to Serial connections are difficult to control as they are always assigned new com ports and constantly requiring one to go into the hidden files and remove the unused ones.
There's very little automatic about operations and requires a moderate knowledge of manipulation in order to keep the system assigned.
Jim


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
korborh
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 01/29/11

Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: highertheflyer]
      #5689223 - 02/19/13 04:31 PM

I have no issues whatsoever with my serial and serial-usb links. Serial is more robust (environment/distance) and still in existence where high data rate is not needed. And mount control does not need very high data rate. Its a slow com link so robustness is more important. Besides, USB connectors also hart short lives and wear out easily.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
highertheflyer
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 07/08/05

Loc: Ft. Worth, Texas
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: korborh]
      #5689298 - 02/19/13 05:09 PM

USB connectors also hart short lives and wear out easily.

Well, that usb side of the laptop could very well be worn out.
Sure wish newer laptops had a serial port connection with which eliminates the troubles...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: highertheflyer]
      #5689330 - 02/19/13 05:26 PM

I paid a little more for a Dell Latitude specifically because it has both an ExpressCard 34 slot and a PC CARD slot as well as an available slim docking port with a real serial port on it. Talk about flexibility. I use the serial port to interface my GPS with 1PPS for Stratum-0 level time keeping in the field and the ExpressCard slot to interface my Firewire-800 camera. I haven't found any use for the PC CARD slot yet.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5689414 - 02/19/13 06:10 PM

Serial will be around for a long time as long as there is high voltage machines requiring data communication.. Serial is much easier at controlling isolation between the devices.. Serial is also the preferred form of communications when motors are present. Serial is also much easier with OOB (out of band) communications are needed.. You could use a modem and phone line to control your mount with a pc..

It's cheap too..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
highertheflyer
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 07/08/05

Loc: Ft. Worth, Texas
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5689424 - 02/19/13 06:13 PM

Thanks frolinmod.
I will remember you purchase with the next laptop I get and thanks...
I have actually found now a broken wire in the cable from the Audiostar HBX and the Serial connector !!
Darn if I did'nt overlook the mechanical parts of the troubles and immediately jumped to the software.
Things are back to normal again tho.
Thanks for all your inputs,
Jim


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: highertheflyer]
      #5689677 - 02/19/13 08:35 PM

also if you buy USB to serial, make sure to get FTDI ones.

i have been using a Targus unit for a long time and have been plagued by slow serial communications (almost to the point of locking up the ASCOM driver while USB-to-serial retries). this wasn't a cheap unit either.

i got a couple of FTDI USB-to-serial on ebay and things are much faster now... cheap too.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Phillip Easton
sage


Reged: 12/24/10

Loc: DFW
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5689801 - 02/19/13 09:52 PM

I second the FTDI. When I was using a netbook I got a FTDI USB to serial adapter from usbgear.com (model USBG-10ft232-STF). Worked fine without any problems. Since then I have started using an old Dell Latitude D620 which has a serial port on it. But I keep the netbook and serial adapter for backup

Cheers!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: Phillip Easton]
      #5689828 - 02/19/13 10:06 PM

Phillip, OT. But I would love to get my hands on a Dell Dxxx (D4xx, 5xx or 6xx).

The cool thing about that one is that it has a huge dock (the PD-01X) which you can buy used fairly cheaply these days.

The dock has serial, parallel, and it can hold a full-height PCI card. So if you want to futz around with those Roper Scientific KAF6303 cameras on ebay which have a PCI interface...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
n1wvet
super member
*****

Reged: 04/22/11

Loc: Northern Virginia, USA, Earth
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5690027 - 02/20/13 12:21 AM

As long as we complainin' - I can't believe manufacturers used RJ45, RJ11 and RJ9/10/22 jacks and cables. These phone comm connectors were never meant for this type of application. They are even more obsolete than D-sub connectors. Although I would take a d-sub over an RJ anyday. How many pennies did we really save here? Really?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CounterWeight
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Palo alto, CA.
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: n1wvet]
      #5690108 - 02/20/13 01:52 AM

Quote:

It would be nice though to see USB supported with maybe a built in USB hub in the mount to reduce cable clutter.




This is something I really like about the design of the SB Paramount MX!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #5690166 - 02/20/13 03:50 AM

Quote:

This is something I really like about the design of the SB Paramount MX!



Not just the MX, but also any mount that uses the MKS-5000 control system. That's currently the MX and ME II. Soon it may also be any ME that has been upgraded to MKS-5000 with an upgrade kit.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BlueGrass
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/25/09

Loc: Wasatch Front, UT
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5691903 - 02/20/13 10:45 PM

I use a StarTech 2 port USB to Rs232 with 2 port USB hub to control my mount, guider and camera. It has two serial ports and two USB 2.0 ports. I run a single USB cable from the laptop to the hub on the mount and everything connects from there, letting me use shorter serial and USB cables. So far it's worked very well. Sadly, a search for a source to post here, shows that it's a discontinued item... If you can find one, it's model number is ICUSB232HUB2.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ourobouros2k2
sage


Reged: 11/10/11

Loc: okc area, oklahoma
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: BlueGrass]
      #5691913 - 02/20/13 10:51 PM

Yes, be very wary of any serial to usb adapters using the prolific chipset. A lot of cheap adapters on ebay claiming to have genuine prolific chipsets are actually cheap chinese bootlegs and will give you nothing but nightmares. I like cheap stuff too sometimes, but this is a case where you get what you pay for and it is better to pay a little more for a genuine device.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
OzAndrewJ
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 11/30/10

Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: ourobouros2k2]
      #5691943 - 02/20/13 11:07 PM

Quote:

A lot of cheap adapters on ebay claiming to have genuine prolific chipsets are actually cheap chinese bootlegs




The latest Prolific driver download i got ( 1.7.0 ) actually includes a utility to validate the chipset in the lumps, due to so many counterfeit units being out there.
The genuine prolifics i have work well on all my scopes in all modes.

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: OzAndrewJ]
      #5692041 - 02/21/13 12:14 AM

guess i got lucky with my $20 FTDI ebay specials

i'm gonna check if they work with the CGEM (if you recall my "PEMPro lockup problems"). Because even though my old Targus worked on the AP, it took forever to upload the PEM curve, the new ebay specials do it much faster.

methinks some retries were going on in the background, so no errors but glacial performance.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Raginar
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/19/10

Loc: Rapid CIty, SD
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5692557 - 02/21/13 11:26 AM

I have a prolific that works just fine. You know what I really like? My ethernet controller on the Gemini-2 works awesome btw.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ourobouros2k2
sage


Reged: 11/10/11

Loc: okc area, oklahoma
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: Raginar]
      #5692786 - 02/21/13 01:41 PM

didn't mean to imply the Prolific chipset is bad, just that there are a lot of malfunctioning copies out there labeled as prolific. Guess it's evident that if it is a 5 dollar "prolific" adapter, it is a good chance that it is counterfeit.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: ourobouros2k2]
      #5692889 - 02/21/13 02:44 PM

I'd go for an FTDI or Edgeport adaptor.
I have a Prolific adapto and it's got some strange foibles, while it's fine with a short RS232 cable with a longer RS232 cable it's very unreliable. Also it's OK connected directly to my laptop but if I go through an active extension and a hub it's OK with the ASCOM driver but PECTool doesn't work.

In all cases the FTDI and Edgeport adaptors just work.

Chris


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: highertheflyer]
      #5692992 - 02/21/13 03:54 PM

I basically agree, but it is what it is.

Do yourself a favor and get a Keyspan USB-serial adapter.

http://www.tripplite.com/en/products/model.cfm?txtSeriesID=849&txtModelID...

Regards,

Jim


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zerro1
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/02/09

Loc: Smokey Point , 48.12°N 122.25...
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: highertheflyer]
      #5693580 - 02/21/13 09:14 PM

Quote:

Why oh why are the telescope companies so enamored with serial controllers?
I have been plagued with their glitches and crashes for years as I try to connect.
To load a Serial to USB controlling a telescope mount can easily become a nightmare, so come on mount manufactures...!!!!!.
Please, please come up with updates that will allow us to work with newer computers and not get entangled with com port troubles and the errors that follow.
Thank you so much for your understanding.
Jim



Wich is why I keep using my Panasonic Toughbooks CF-74 and CF-52 have native DB9/RS232 ports. I think the latest CF-52's are running the i5 cpu. They cost but I don't have adapter failures. They can be picked up on the used market for pretty cheap. They are fairly rugged so outdoor work is not an issue. The CF-52 has 4 X USB and the COM port. the CF-74 has 2 X USB and the COM port..

CF-52


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: zerro1]
      #5693608 - 02/21/13 09:35 PM

Robert, what laptop are you using to drive your Quantix? there aren't many laptops with docks big enough to hold a PCI card... the Quantix card is full-height right?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
zerro1
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 08/02/09

Loc: Smokey Point , 48.12°N 122.25...
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: orlyandico]
      #5693830 - 02/22/13 12:11 AM

I have a Dell D630 C2D with the PCI expansion dock for that camera, but I only use the Dell and the Quantix at home or my friends place in Winthrop. When I head out to "really dark" sky's I take the toughbooks and my QHY's.

The D630 has the serial port as well. I think I paid $150 for the Dell and $20 for the dock. Using the Serial Port free's up the USB port and I never have a connectivity problem with either with EQMOD on my Atlas or my LXD75's.

The toughbooks have better battery life though, so I can refrain from powering the laptop most of the time.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
freestar8n
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/12/07

Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5694283 - 02/22/13 09:35 AM

I also had good luck with Keyspan.

When I first went to 64-bit win7pro, I had horrible blue screen crashes with my HP laptop using prolific usb2serial. I found pointers on the web that the issue involved particular motherboards combined with the drivers to cause the blue screen - so not all laptops had this problem. Keyspan were more expensive, but they solved it about 98%. I still get very rare blue screens associated with astronomy - but I now see a strong correlation with using SkyX. I don't know how there would be a connection - but I do have an impression there is one - so I avoid SkyX during imaging sessions.

Anyway - I also recommend keyspan. They come with good software for monitoring the ports - etc.

Frank


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hilmi
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: freestar8n]
      #5694297 - 02/22/13 09:42 AM

This is not based on statistics, but the way I see it. MOST users don't need the extra range that serial connections provide. Therefore, having USB or Ethernet makes things easier for most users. Doesn't hurt of mount manufacturers would just offer both serial connection and one of the newer connection types.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
frolinmod
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/06/10

Loc: Southern California
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: Hilmi]
      #5694333 - 02/22/13 09:57 AM

Quote:

Therefore, having USB or Ethernet makes things easier for most users.



I'd be psyched if they'd use Ethernet instead of USB. Ethernet can go 100m in a single copper span and kilometers with fiber. Then it can be repeated with a switch, etc.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hilmi
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: frolinmod]
      #5694365 - 02/22/13 10:11 AM

Gemini 2 offers all three, I figure it could be rather popular once fully mature

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: Hilmi]
      #5694376 - 02/22/13 10:19 AM

RS232 or Ethernet. USB looks good superficially but experience shows it to be a nightmare of conflicting hardware, operating systems and drivers. With USB in a scope if the scope manufacturer doesn't support your computer or OS you are stuck. Look as how long it took to get the DSI cameras to have support for Vista or XP, especially 64 bits.

Chris


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CounterWeight
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Palo alto, CA.
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: cn register 5]
      #5694513 - 02/22/13 11:43 AM

USB's worked fine for me for years, fine on a huge selection of devices outside this hobby as well. Serial worked but there were issues on how who implemented what. Ethernet, Serial, whatever the hardware conx / interconx - when you want to make stuff work there's software or at least firmware to handle the protocol / flavor. This stuff that goes on about 'software, drivers, compatability' makes me wonder - whatever the gadget/widget, code has always been needed and it's never perfect for use outside what the original intention was. Nothing is foolproof or perfect, but over time depending on what you need done there has been available. Saying something is clumsy or doesn't work well can be said about anything if you want, making it work with the means at hand for what you need is where it's at.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: CounterWeight]
      #5694735 - 02/22/13 01:26 PM

Robert, good to know. I'm heading down the same route. Snagged a D400 for $75 locally. I'll go pick it up in a few days. Will have to troll ebay for the dock.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Lee Jay
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/27/08

Loc: Westminster, CO
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5695854 - 02/22/13 11:18 PM

Quote:

Serial will be around for a long time as long as there is high voltage machines requiring data communication.. Serial is much easier at controlling isolation between the devices.. Serial is also the preferred form of communications when motors are present.




Yeah...RS422 or RS485, not 232!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hilmi
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 03/07/10

Loc: Muscat, Sultanate of Oman
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: Lee Jay]
      #5695868 - 02/22/13 11:25 PM

I think that the misconception that USB is troublesome comes from the earlier versions of windows that support it. I remember with Windows 95 and 98 when they introduced plug and pray. With modern operating systems like XP, Vista & Windows 7. USB works very well with no issues. All USB issues with windows Vista where to do with lack of availability of drivers not the USB standard itself. If you had the driver it worked.

Meade DSI had difficulty because Meade decided not to be open about how the camera works. All drivers you find in other software such as MaximDL where written without support from Meade (At least that is how I remember it).


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
niteman1946
sage


Reged: 02/16/08

Loc: Fort Worth, TX
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: freestar8n]
      #5696473 - 02/23/13 12:04 PM

One more plus for Keyspan. I had been using a Belkin adapter for three years with no problems on my XP to classic Meade. Equipment upgrade required that I move from Ascom 5a to 6spi. At that point the computer and scope would no longer talk. Tried a Vista box with no luck.
I saw the Keyspan recommended as a fix, and that proved to be true. It worked on the XP (now retired) and its replacement the Vista.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
budman1961
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 02/25/11

Loc: Springfield, MO
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: niteman1946]
      #5696505 - 02/23/13 12:25 PM

+1 for Keyspan, for me on PC and OSX, they just work all the time, period. I did have an FTDI based units also, but windows kept re-assigning the port numbers at random. An inconvenience at most.

Andy


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Paul G
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/08/03

Loc: Freedonia
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: budman1961]
      #5696583 - 02/23/13 01:13 PM

+1 for Keyspan here, too.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
korborh
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 01/29/11

Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: Paul G]
      #5696653 - 02/23/13 01:53 PM

Another one for keyspan....have worked perfectly for me.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DaveJ
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 01/07/05

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: korborh]
      #5696850 - 02/23/13 03:40 PM

Quote:

Another one for keyspan....have worked perfectly for me.




OK, since we're piling on, I'll add another +1 to the heap. I've been using mine for five years on multiple boxes running multiple OSs talking to multiple devices without one singe glitch. It just works time and time again.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: DaveJ]
      #5697633 - 02/24/13 12:20 AM

I use 5 keyspans.. no issue here.. Only issue is when using cheap hub... use a hub with an NEC chip in it..

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SKYGZR
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 08/14/09

Loc: Planet Earth, Milky Way Galaxy...
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5697719 - 02/24/13 02:29 AM

Laptop w/serial port, and USB ports, problem(s) solved.

Oh Yea, W_XP_+SP2. No need for anything else.

W7 and or W8 too probelm-atic, stick with XP in admin mode.
Dual core, 2 gb ram, enough for all applications, simple and refined/proven reliability.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: SKYGZR]
      #5699863 - 02/25/13 01:36 PM

LOL on the EOL products!



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
LeCarl
super member


Reged: 03/16/11

Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5703562 - 02/27/13 01:53 PM

Maybe a good idea is to skip the usb era with wireless? it can go very far too... (seen some product for mount...)

as dslr for ex. the 6D begin to be wireless shuttering and upload, very good to faststar and avoid wire problem

personal: rs232 is really painfull to me (china adapters mess with updates and things) real intel on laptop rs232 work properly in my case, I keep this old laptop to do updates.

I bought 2X 25 meters +-20$ active usb cable that work very good and never had problem with...
I can't use an slow laptop as, I use it to stack and check my work in live... so I7, fast ssd, big 7200rpm drive...
an asus g75vw

I think that the usb and rs232 have their quality and problem...


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: LeCarl]
      #5703597 - 02/27/13 02:16 PM

The issue with wireless is the possible loss of dropped packets.. serial does not do a good job of error control..
Plus it's half duplex..


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5703655 - 02/27/13 02:49 PM

Seriously, it's time to go wheels-up with wireless communication architectures on mounts. USB is actually a dead end, also, since it has the length issues and is PC-tied.

Either bluetooth or WiFi have legs for the future. If they want to use serial cables internally, OK. Otherwise, this is seriously a trip into the land of the arcane as modern computing hardware is going to be far more likely to be a tablet than any form of PC. So, a bluetooth architecture would really be nice- especially since the dreaded cord wrap exits at that point.

-Rich


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: Starhawk]
      #5703685 - 02/27/13 03:09 PM

gige

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Starhawk
Space Ranger
*****

Reged: 09/16/08

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5704166 - 02/27/13 08:02 PM

Hey, if all the magic ASCOM driver with the special wire and the blessed +2 USB dongle and tinkering with a Remote Desktop box goes away in exchange for just using the wireless devices everyone already owns, I don't think you'll get a complaint.

-Rich

Edited by Starhawk (02/27/13 08:06 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SkipW
sage


Reged: 02/03/11

Loc: Oklahoma, USA
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5704169 - 02/27/13 08:04 PM

Quote:

The issue with wireless is the possible loss of dropped packets.. serial does not do a good job of error control..
Plus it's half duplex..



RS-232 serial is half duplex?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sean13
sage


Reged: 11/17/12

Loc: North Platte, Nebraska
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: SkipW]
      #5704225 - 02/27/13 08:38 PM

I didn't actually read thru page 2 and 3 of the thread, but I just want to throw it out there that I have been using cheap Chinese made serial adapters without the slightest bit of trouble for about 6 months now. I didn't feel like paying $35+ for a proper converter when ebay had cheap china ones for $2.99 shipped. I expected bad results, so I bought 3 of them just in case. All 3 work perfectly and I've never had to switch one out because of failure. Its been in temps down to -5F and covered with frost without so much as a hiccup.

To top it off the cheap serial adapter is connected to a cheap 7 port USB hub mounted on my mount, and connected to my laptop in the garage with a PTC 65ft USB cable. When plugged in my comm port is always the same, so I'm not sure why others are having to switch ports everytime they plug in. As long as you plug into the same USB port as you did before, your comm port should end up being the same.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: SkipW]
      #5704311 - 02/27/13 09:28 PM

wireless is half duplex.. hense why it is not compatible with usb 2.0 bi direction support..

You only run over 1 wireless channel..

unless your device and wap are multi radio.. which is not a normal config.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cn register 5
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 12/26/12

Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: Sean13]
      #5705824 - 02/28/13 05:40 PM

Quote:

I have been using cheap Chinese made serial adapters without the slightest bit of trouble for about 6 months now. I didn't feel like paying $35+ for a proper converter when ebay had cheap china ones for $2.99 shipped.



Are you able to post details of exactly which serial adaptors you are getting? The feedback I get on the ASCOM groups is that a lot of people have problems. If there's a solid way of getting connectivity that would be really useful.

Chris


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
wolfman_4_ever
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 07/15/11

Loc: El Segundo, Ca, So. Cal
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: cn register 5]
      #5705935 - 02/28/13 06:35 PM

The chinese versions will work fine as long as it's not a clone knockoff prolific chip. It's a *BLEEP* (fine cr@:p) shoot.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
orlyandico
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 08/10/09

Loc: Singapore
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: wolfman_4_ever]
      #5706339 - 02/28/13 10:30 PM

Here's the thing.. there are these China "Linvor" Serial to Bluetooth dongles out there. How hard would it be to graft one of these directly to an existing mount controller? since it's still serial, the mount controller would not need any re-engineering, just a daughter board with the bluetooth controller.

I've had a look inside a GTO CP3 controller (when I replaced the Q chip with an S chip) and there is definitely space for a bluetooth adapter. The only challenge is the case is solid metal.. there would need to be a cutout for the bluetooth antenna.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Waldemar
member


Reged: 08/02/08

Loc: Netherlands
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: StarmanDan]
      #5706617 - 03/01/13 05:38 AM

Quote:

IMO, I think most manufacturers are staying with RS-232 as it is (at least for me) more reliable and you can use it over longer distances than USB without needing any fancy adapters or converters. It would be nice though to see USB supported with maybe a built in USB hub in the mount to reduce cable clutter.




Those are two of the many reasons why I like my ASA DDM60Pro so much

But I agree: FTDI are the best converters. I used them on other mounts and on my ASA before it was upgraded.

Edited by Waldemar (03/01/13 05:05 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sean13
sage


Reged: 11/17/12

Loc: North Platte, Nebraska
Re: This Miserable Mess with DB9 Serial and Computers? new [Re: cn register 5]
      #5706900 - 03/01/13 10:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have been using cheap Chinese made serial adapters without the slightest bit of trouble for about 6 months now. I didn't feel like paying $35+ for a proper converter when ebay had cheap china ones for $2.99 shipped.



Are you able to post details of exactly which serial adaptors you are getting? The feedback I get on the ASCOM groups is that a lot of people have problems. If there's a solid way of getting connectivity that would be really useful.

Chris




Here... is the ebay link to the adapters I bought. I bought 3 just in case, and all 3 work just fine, never had a problem in the 6 months I've been using it.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)


Extra information
27 registered and 36 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Dave M, richard7, bilgebay, iceblaze 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 2785

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics