iceblaze
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/15/11
Loc: 33.9° N, 118.4° W Lawndale, CA
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: Agatha]
#5667169 - 02/07/13 02:12 PM
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Hello,
If anyone has any questions about moderation taken on these forums, they are more than welcome to contact any moderator or administrator via PM. With that said, let's please keep this thread on topic from here on out
-James
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Chucky
sage
Reged: 04/16/10
Loc: Dublin, Ohio
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: Agatha]
#5667217 - 02/07/13 02:42 PM
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<< Are you going to tell them to move on also? >>
Actually I was just curious as to your thinking considering it was stressing you so. Carry-on as you think best.
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Agatha
professor emeritus
Reged: 06/04/12
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: Chucky]
#5667227 - 02/07/13 02:48 PM
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Will do. 
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jhayes_tucson
member
Reged: 08/26/12
Loc: Bend, OR
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: Agatha]
#5669374 - 02/08/13 04:34 PM
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When I originally posted my review article, Mr. Clinard and I had concluded our discussions about how to resolve our differences over the product he delivered and I had no intent of continuing that discussion here. As I’ve said, my sole purpose was to provide a factual review for the benefit of the community. However, it was not my intent to destroy Mr. Clinard’s business either so when he contacted me behind the scenes to reopen our discussion, I felt that it was only fair for me to give him a second chance to make it right. He has agreed to do the right thing and stand behind his work with a money back guarantee. We have agreed that my original offer to pay a 10% restocking fee along with all of the shipping was a fair way to unwind this deal. Yesterday I received his check and this afternoon I will ship the drive back to him. I will also work with Cloudy Nights to amend the review to include how this was handled. This whole thing stirred up a lot of reaction but I hope that in the long term there is a positive result. Mr. Clinard has stepped up to address the concerns of his customers and the community and I am certain that he (and perhaps a few other vendors who followed this thread) now appreciate the expectations of the market a bit better. I hope that Mr. Clinard will be able to comment on his own about our discussion and that all of you will give him fair consideration in the future. Finally, I hope that the next article I have a chance to contribute will be far less contentious. In the meantime, happy star gazing!
John
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City Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/06/09
Loc: Northern Indiana
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: jhayes_tucson]
#5669438 - 02/08/13 05:10 PM
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John, I am very happy you reported your experience to all of us. This is the kind of information we all need to be made aware of. Cloudy Nights is one of the few places we can get honest, unbiased reports such as this. It's easy to find positive reviews of all kinds in places such as the major astronomy magazines. It's not always easy to find out the negatives until we experience it for ourselves. This type of honest review can help us avoid an experience such as this. No one should have a problem with an honest review whether it's negative or positive. It benefits us all.
Phil
Edited by City Kid (02/08/13 05:10 PM)
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opticcraft1
Vendor (Optic Craft Machining)
Reged: 05/20/11
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: jhayes_tucson]
#5669619 - 02/08/13 06:59 PM
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I am happy that Dr. Hayes and I could come to an agreement to resolve this issue. After 28 years of manufacturing drive systems for the astronomy community, we work hard to deliver high quality products for a wide variety of applications. Unfortunately, in this case, we shipped some equipment that did not meet our standards or our customer's and we genuinely regret that error. Our commitment to all of our customers is to delight them with the quality, accuracy, and reliability of our products. If we ever fail to do that and we can't make it right, I want everyone to know that we will ultimately stand behind our products with a money back guarantee. I look forward to many more years of serving the community with high quality products, fair prices, and outstanding customer service and thank you for your business.
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rainycityastro
sage
Reged: 03/29/10
Loc: Seattle, WA
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: opticcraft1]
#5669649 - 02/08/13 07:28 PM
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I hope the original article stays mostly intact. It will help others contemplating using this machine shop to make the right decision.
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smallscopefanLeo
sage
Reged: 01/23/11
Loc: L.A., CA (& Home Plate, Mars!)
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: rainycityastro]
#5670073 - 02/09/13 02:16 AM
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Glad to see that things are being resolved bit by bit! I most often in favor of those open avenues of communication and resolution, which can with time and patience accomplish great things (but then what do I really know  )
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t.r.
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/14/08
Loc: Upstate NY
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: smallscopefanLeo]
#5670260 - 02/09/13 08:08 AM
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Quote:
However, it was not my intent to destroy Mr. Clinard’s business either so when he contacted me behind the scenes to reopen our discussion, I felt that it was only fair for me to give him a second chance to make it right. He has agreed to do the right thing and stand behind his work with a money back guarantee.
In my humble opinion, that should have been the very first response from the vendor...no second chance required! I fully believe the olive branch came only after the story broke and the damage done realized. There was no change of heart due to guilty conscience or ethics...let's be honest with ourselves. Bravo to CloudyNights and Astronomics for providing this service to protect and unite consumers together. 
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smallscopefanLeo
sage
Reged: 01/23/11
Loc: L.A., CA (& Home Plate, Mars!)
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: t.r.]
#5670751 - 02/09/13 01:24 PM
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"When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself."
-Wayne Dyer
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rockethead26
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/21/09
Loc: Indiana, USA
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: smallscopefanLeo]
#5671018 - 02/09/13 04:42 PM
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We're judging the work here, not the individual, although the individual is responsible for the quality of work produced.
If I hire a teenager to cut my lawn in the summer and he/she does a poor job, I will let them know what they need to improve and give them another shot. If they still deliver poor work, they get fired. Am I judging the individual or their work? Result is the same. I find another vendor and let other neighbors know not to hire that teen.
What's so wrong here?
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Jim Chung
Vendor - Icodome
Reged: 12/07/05
Loc: Toronto
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: rockethead26]
#5677196 - 02/13/13 08:24 AM
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Perhaps Dr Hayes would consider amending his article to reflect that Optic Craft have in the end behaved honorably and that he is satisfied with the outcome since many people do not visit this forum nor would they want to read through 5 pages of comments.
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okieav8r
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/01/09
Loc: Oklahoma!
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: Jim Chung]
#5677246 - 02/13/13 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Perhaps Dr Hayes would consider amending his article to reflect that Optic Craft have in the end behaved honorably and that he is satisfied with the outcome since many people do not visit this forum nor would they want to read through 5 pages of comments.
I'll wager he'll follow up.
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rdandrea
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 06/13/10
Loc: Colorado, USA DM59ra
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: okieav8r]
#5677687 - 02/13/13 01:24 PM
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I'll wager he'll follow up.
I think he already said he would, but I think he needs the Mods' help in effecting an edit.
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telescopemullet
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/16/09
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: opticcraft1]
#5677712 - 02/13/13 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Further comments from Optic Craft Machining Co.
Attached is simple design 2” shaft diameter simple bushing design equatorial mounting using one 6.6” clock drive, wedge and fabricated oak tripod. Max size OTS 10” F/4.5 or 6” f/10 refractor.
All positive operating reports from my customers.
Terry Clinard Optic Craft Machining Co.
Pictured above is the mount that OC made for my ISTAR 6"f15 a couple years ago now. The mount continues to preform flawlessly. When I first got my mount I had numerous conversations with OC about how to assemble it, he even interrupted his dinner one time for me if I recall.
Sorry to hear about the bad unit that OC shipped out.
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jhayes_tucson
member
Reged: 08/26/12
Loc: Bend, OR
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: telescopemullet]
#5677780 - 02/13/13 02:26 PM
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I am indeed working with the CN administrators to add a postscript to the review so stay tuned.
John
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jhayes_tucson
member
Reged: 08/26/12
Loc: Bend, OR
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: jhayes_tucson]
#5689947 - 02/19/13 11:15 PM
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The admins at CN are pretty busy and even though I submitted a postscript to the review a while ago, it may take a while to work it's way through all the current stuff they are working on. I want to make sure that it at least appears on the forum so here is what I submitted:
Postscript
After this review was posted, Mr. Clinard contacted me privately to reopen our discussion about resolving this issue. After our initial discussions ended, I felt that I owned the drive and my intent was to review it as a community service--not to leverage a more favorable response. However, I wasn’t out to destroy Mr. Clinard’s business either so when he contacted me, I felt that it was reasonable to give him a second chance to make it right. Mr. Clinard eagerly agreed to refund the price of the drive minus a 10% restocking charge and I agreed to pay all of the shipping. The deal is done and he has refunded my money and I have returned the drive.
Mr. Clinard has assured me privately that this drive did not meet his standards and that he will redouble his efforts to delivery high quality products. He has also publically stated that he will always try to make it right and if he can’t, he will stand behind his products with a money back guarantee. It’s unfortunate that we had go through this process but in the end, I believe that it has had a positive effect on the market and I applaud Mr. Clinard for ultimately doing the right thing. He and I both learned a lot from this episode and I believe that Mr. Clinard will be very responsive moving forward. We have since had some very friendly conversations about how to delight customers and I certainly hope that he receives fair consideration in the future.
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Chucky
sage
Reged: 04/16/10
Loc: Dublin, Ohio
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: jhayes_tucson]
#5690247 - 02/20/13 06:43 AM
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<< He and I both learned a lot from this episode >>
I certainly hope so. It's just too bad the both of you couldn't have worked out things privately.
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stome02
newbie
Reged: 02/20/13
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: Charlie Hein]
#5690957 - 02/20/13 01:49 PM
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I had a similar negative experience with quality issues with my drive from Optic Craft Machining. After attempting to improve the tolerances and performance of the existing design, I scrapped everything but the worm gear and wheel, bought my own lathe and milling machine and fabricated my own bearing blocks. I had a new clutch made by PreciseParts. Even the motor had to be replaced due to vibration issues! I'm sorry to say that I would never buy another Optic Craft product. Buy a Byers gear set if you can find them. If you don't do your own machining, I've had nothing but positive experiences with PreciseParts. Before I bought my lathe and milling machine, I used them to fabricate all of my parts, at prices much lower than I expected. They even anodize the parts. One thing I can say, I've become a better machinist! I'm learning how to TIG weld now :0)
ST
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PGW Steve
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/03/06
Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
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Re: Optic Craft Machining Clock Drive Review
[Re: stome02]
#5704299 - 02/27/13 09:21 PM
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I think is sad you ended up on the hook for a 're-stocking fee' and the shipping. Considering that OC admitted it was in error and provided a sub-standard product, this horrible experience cost you a lot of time and aggravation, plus the further insult of a financial hit.
I'm not impressed.
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