Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home pageAstronomics discounts for Cloudy Nights members
· Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt · Submit a Review / Article

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu… uh, User

General Astronomy >> General Observing and Astronomy

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)
leviathan
sage


Reged: 11/29/11

Loc: Azerbaijan
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? [Re: Dave74]
      #5708093 - 03/02/13 01:45 AM

I'm mostly a visual observer, about 90% of a time. Astrophotography for me is something that I sometimes NEED to do, or even HAVE to do. For example, asteroid 2012 DA14: I found it and observed for 10-15 minutes with my binoculars. But we wouldn't get a results if I didn't shoot it at the same time by photocamera near me. Another example are my friends, who mostly prefer AP over visual, and under dark skyes we usually split observing time by 50/50 for visual and AP.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tom and Beth
Post Laureate


Reged: 01/08/07

Loc: Tucson, AZ
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: Escher]
      #5708126 - 03/02/13 02:37 AM

Quote:

Seems like now that I can "see" so much more via AP I have really not much interest in visual observing except for planetary.

I'm not a very good imager yet - but even raw/unprocessed shots can show so much more than a visual observation...

Am I alone here in not really having a desire to go back to visual?

Just curious if this is common..




I've tried AP off and on for 4 decades, just recently trying again.

That said, while the camera is busily taking Pics, I'm on the other scope. "Abandon" visual? Why?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
leviathan
sage


Reged: 11/29/11

Loc: Azerbaijan
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: Tom and Beth]
      #5708149 - 03/02/13 03:15 AM

Yeah, start that routine automated process, configure mount, guide, DSLR/CCD, check first several shots - and go observing on big Dob.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ThreeD
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/23/08

Loc: Sacramento suburbs
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: leviathan]
      #5708479 - 03/02/13 10:24 AM

Different strokes for different folks and for those that enjoy AP that's great. Personally I have no desire to do it.

For me it is about the hunt and, as Jon said, communing with nature so I'll stick with my eyepieces. If I want to see pretty pictures I'll check out NASA or the works of those amateurs who do enjoy AP but for me there is a certain mystique about seeing things with my own eyes that can't be achieved with a photo.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NeilMac
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/25/10

Loc: MedHat, AB, Canada
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: Dave74]
      #5708763 - 03/02/13 12:44 PM

I like to document what I see.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Astrojensen
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 10/05/08

Loc: Bornholm, Denmark
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: NeilMac]
      #5708934 - 03/02/13 02:41 PM

I've been a visual observer for two decades now, most of the time with very small telescopes, no more than 3"-4" as the largest and most of the time with 2" - 2.5" being the most commonly used aperture.

I've tried astrophotography, back in the ol' film days, before electronics took over. I did get some really good results, considering my equipment, but after a photo session, I felt stressed and tired, not relaxed as when I had been doing visual. Later I've tried webcamming and instantly got VERY good results, but the end was the same. I was always frustrated over something in the imaging chain and realized it was an endless money pit and a massive black hole of frustration that would end sucking all joy out of the hobby for me. I abandoned it there and then and has not taken it up since.

Now I am purely visual and happy as a clam. I recently got a 12" dob and it is a powerful scope, but I am still finding myself enjoying my 63mm Zeiss tremendously, so I guess I am not hit by aperture fever. Actually, I was out yesterday, hunting obscure galaxies and planetary nebulae with it. I didn't miss the 12" for a second. Oh, I knew it would do a lot better on many of the objects, but then a 20" would do even better and a 40" better still. It never ends. I am as excited about seeing IC 342 in the 63mm Zeiss as I am seeing it in the 12". There may not be so many details, but I am seeing it with my own eyes! That is a very powerful experience for me, regardless of the scope I use at the moment.

I also find it tremendously fun to go after some real challenges with the little Zeiss and hunt for objects almost no one has seen with such a small scope. I like the challenge of pushing myself and the scope to the very limits of detection. I like this more than looking at parade objects with the 12", I think, but both are fun pastimes. I've always been interested in visual observing as an activity in itself, its history, the theory, results in practice, record-breaking observations, drawings and reports, etc. It is a great shame that not more observers are interested in analyzing their observations and training themselves to see more and get more experience through experiments.

Myself, I plan on continue being a visual observer for as long as I can drag myself out under the starry sky.


Clear skies!
Thomas, Denmark


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Footbag
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 04/13/09

Loc: Scranton, PA
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: Astrojensen]
      #5709106 - 03/02/13 04:35 PM

I'm a 99% imager, but there have been many times I wished I had another mount so I could observe while imaging.

As for AP, I just prefer it because I have something to show for it. Also, you can capture much more with a camera then you can see at the EP.

I do think video astronomy is the future. For those who don't have the nostalgia for the EP, and tend to have trouble just looking through one; The question always becomes "can we pull it up on the screen?"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
microstar
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 01/05/08

Loc: Canada
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: Footbag]
      #5709208 - 03/02/13 05:45 PM

I mostly do AP, probably 98%/2%. It takes a certain kind of patience (masochism?) to stick with AP - not sure I would have if I didn't have the observatory. I enjoy the technical aspects of the hobby, I enjoy tweaking precision equipment to make it perform at its best, I enjoy the software challenges (I'm a bit of a computer geek), and I really enjoy the art of bringing an image out of the background noise. Works for me, and this is definitely a case of "to each his own" because clearly it's not for everyone. And in the end it's much more than the picture - viewers will spend probably a few seconds looking at it, but the creator of the image has spent countless hours teasing out the details and struggling with color intensity and balance. I can appreciate details in my images that I know no one else will even notice, so in that sense it's not much different than those who enjoy viewing the subtle details at the eyepiece. And I still enjoy the occasional visual and being alone under the stars. There's lots of room in this hobby to accommodate all varieties of enjoyment and for flip-flopping from one mode to the other every night or every decade.
...Keith


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jeff heck
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 01/16/06

Loc: stl,mo.
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: microstar]
      #5709510 - 03/02/13 08:24 PM

Books on tape ruined me for braille...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: microstar]
      #5709976 - 03/03/13 06:03 AM

Quote:

I enjoy tweaking precision equipment to make it perform at its best, I enjoy the software challenges (I'm a bit of a computer geek), and I really enjoy the art of bringing an image out of the background noise.




To each one's own...

I spend my days in a research lab with a large budget and some very nice equipment, much of which I have designed myself and tweaked myself.

At night, I just want to enjoy the night sky in a simple way.

Jon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Tony Flanders
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 05/18/06

Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: jeff heck]
      #5709981 - 03/03/13 06:10 AM

Quote:

Books on tape ruined me for braille...




I assume you're joking, but the statement is worth examining in more detail.

Books on tape have their place, but they will never replace conventional reading, whether with your eyes or braille. People fluent with braille can read at least as fast as sighted people, easily four or times faster than you can absorb words with your ears.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
la200o
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/09/08

Loc: SE Michigan, USA
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5710070 - 03/03/13 07:59 AM

No interest whatsoever in imaging on my part, except someday maybe solar.

Bill


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
star drop
Snowed In
*****

Reged: 02/02/08

Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: Escher]
      #5710098 - 03/03/13 08:18 AM

Visual for nearly 38 years and loving it.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JIMZ7
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 10/22/05

Loc: S.E.Michigan near DTW
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: star drop]
      #5710165 - 03/03/13 09:11 AM

I went to college for photography/video & never used that knowledge for astronomy. Visual astronomy since 1957.

Jim


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
jeff heck
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 01/16/06

Loc: stl,mo.
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: Tony Flanders]
      #5710292 - 03/03/13 10:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Books on tape ruined me for braille...




I assume you're joking, but the statement is worth examining in more detail.

Books on tape have their place, but they will never replace conventional reading, whether with your eyes or braille. People fluent with braille can read at least as fast as sighted people, easily four or times faster than you can absorb words with your ears.



It's a Seinfeld qoute, nothing more, nothing less. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Edited by jeff heck (03/03/13 10:44 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Escher
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/30/07

Loc: Fenton, MI
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: JIMZ7]
      #5710298 - 03/03/13 10:25 AM

Interesting responses - although I think I should to a test and post the same message in the "AP" section.

I hope my original post didnt come across as bashing visual observing - frustration - yes, I definately have that going in regard to visual, but a lot of that stems from my location and sky quality I'm sure... I'm also not a very patient person, so I just am not the kind of person who will hunt for an object for hours - even though I have in the past...

Seems like that last statement is counter intuitive for AP, right? Most AP'ers spend hours and hours on one subject... Not really - since I'm not saying I'm about the processing side as I just like the extra detail I can get via a CCD..

I'd be curious to see if anyone has ever made a correlation between a CCD exposure time/F ratio and a visual observation via a scope of X size? Maybe you need a 16" scope to equal a 3 second CCD exposure at ISO1600 and F10 or something...

Edited by Escher (03/03/13 10:26 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Escher
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 08/30/07

Loc: Fenton, MI
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? new [Re: Escher]
      #5710302 - 03/03/13 10:28 AM

The books on tape comment is interesting.. .because - I actually have "read" more in the last three years than the previous 20.

I mean, I *read* about 100-200 pages a day on various forums, etc... but to sit and read a novel - I have no time... So I listen in the car or at work while I'm processing data.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/16/04

Loc: San Diego and Boulevard, CA
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? [Re: Escher]
      #5710319 - 03/03/13 10:34 AM

Quote:


I hope my original post didnt come across as bashing visual observing




I saw no bashing of either side in your original post, just a question interested in knowing other amateur's experiences. Probably most have tried AP at one time or another. For me, I can image more than I can see but I just don't find the imaging experience enjoyable.

Visual can be a hike on a trail in the mountains, AP is like photographing a single vista point.

Jon


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NeilMac
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 09/25/10

Loc: MedHat, AB, Canada
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? [Re: Escher]
      #5710333 - 03/03/13 10:42 AM

Quote:

Interesting responses - although I think I should to a test and post the same message in the "AP" section.

I hope my original post didnt come across as bashing visual observing - frustration - yes, I definately have that going in regard to visual, but a lot of that stems from my location and sky quality I'm sure... I'm also not a very patient person, so I just am not the kind of person who will hunt for an object for hours - even though I have in the past...

Seems like that last statement is counter intuitive for AP, right? Most AP'ers spend hours and hours on one subject... Not really - since I'm not saying I'm about the processing side as I just like the extra detail I can get via a CCD..

I'd be curious to see if anyone has ever made a correlation between a CCD exposure time/F ratio and a visual observation via a scope of X size? Maybe you need a 16" scope to equal a 3 second CCD exposure at ISO1600 and F10 or something...




I think it has allot to do with vast variations with people being left/right brained. Some think the Moon is boring, others find it fascinating. Nothing is black and white, some people have very good memory recall and the images are as fresh as when they first saw it, others loose detail in seconds.
I think this is a good topic to see how different people are in their thinking.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JayinUT
I'm not Sleepy
*****

Reged: 09/19/08

Loc: Utah
Re: Anyone else abandon visual for AP? [Re: Escher]
      #5710366 - 03/03/13 10:56 AM

At this point I am a visual only guy. The ATM bug has hit me thanks to a friend and I am making a six and a eight inch scope. ATM leads more to visual I think. I can see in fifteen years as I will be sixty three a malicanor its successor coming into the picture. Nothing wrong with AP and I have two good friends who do it, one for around 2000 dollars and my daughter wants to do it so she'll learn from him, but for now I'll stick visual.

What is interesting to me is what people getting into the hobby are doing who are in their thirties and early forties. Do most start visual and migrate to AP? Do they start in AP? What are the triggers that move one from visual to AP or back again? For those who do both which is done more? I bet the answers differ by as much as their are different individuals in the hobby but it would be interesting to read more replies to the thread. Good reading, thanks for the thread.

In another aspect as a professional educator I know there are different learning styles and though we usually have several styles we prefer, you we tend to lean toward one. I am a visual and kinesthetic learner and thus my preference for visual observing. I have put a lot of money into visual between scopes, and mirrors, eyepieces and now land. I don't think my wife would let me invest in AP right now as we have kids in college and our son is in Italy for two years so nope, not I'm a visual guy only.

Edited by JayinUT (03/03/13 11:46 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)


Extra information
4 registered and 13 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  cildarith, panhard, tecmage 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 2593

Jump to

CN Forums Home


Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics