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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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Napersky
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 01/27/10

Loc: Chicagoland
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Napersky]
      #5729355 - 03/12/13 11:30 PM

Bill yes Supply and Demand. With a bad economy Demand can shrivel up overnight as people cannot afford such luxuries.

I can see the 4" 160 Unitrons going to a low of $4,000 when money is tight and people can't or don't want to buy. Conversely they can hit their high's again also.


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sgorton99
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Reged: 04/30/08

Loc: Wisconsin, Madison
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Napersky]
      #5729765 - 03/13/13 07:00 AM

Quote:

Hey Steve glad you finally got your Unitron. I do beg to differ on the value. Several years ago a 160 with weight drive and home-made pier went for $8,000.

It has been 3 or 5 years since the last sale on either CN classifieds or Amart of a Unitron weight drive and the last one sold for $2,700. That all by itself.

That recent 160 for $6,000 was a great buy. Of course I am particularly biased as I do have a horse in this ring with my club's 160 as you know. I have been attempting to get the Secretary to list it at Auction now for over a year....such with volunteer positions!

Cheers,

Mark




Thanks Mark. No worries on pricing, as there are so few examples of these you just never know! I do agree that the weight driven clock drive is pretty darn rare and hard to find. Two people who really want one can quickly get the price up there.


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strdst
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Reged: 03/23/08

Loc: Oregon Territory
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5738025 - 03/17/13 04:59 AM

Quote:

Absolutely we have noticed and stated so on several recent threads in this forum. See for instance the eBay thread that was locked earlier this week. Perhaps it should be policy that we don't state prices in the forum when such questions are asked by newbies such as those you speak of. Perhaps, just tell them to set an asking price based on what it's worth to them.




Perhaps we shouldn't speak to "newbies" with worth/price questions! Make it a policy not to? And then the hapless new owner of a Unitron 114 posts it on ebay for $700 and gets ridiculed to death here for being greedy... because according to "us" it is only worth $235? What do you want?


http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5411070/page...


other keith


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sgorton99
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Reged: 04/30/08

Loc: Wisconsin, Madison
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: strdst]
      #5738152 - 03/17/13 08:21 AM

If their first post is "I found this at a garage sale for next to nothing, how much can I get for it?" I tend to ignore them. They can list it on ebay and the market will set a price for them. On the other hand, the Unitron 145C I bought the "newbie" listed in classifieds with the pure intent of selling it - I don't see anything wrong with that. I called him, he said he got it from an uncle, I told him to keep it and he said he just wanted it to get used by astronomy folks and had no interest. I met him 75 miles away and purchased it, to my knowledge he has never been back to CN again. http://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=58333&sor...

Edited by sgorton99 (03/17/13 08:23 AM)


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Ron500E
member


Reged: 06/01/12

Loc: Illinois, near the River Styx
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5739910 - 03/18/13 12:32 AM

Quote:

Perhaps it should be policy that we don't state prices in the forum when such questions are asked by newbies such as those you speak of.




Terra:

I have to respectively disagree. I am new to the hobby and would like to find out what some things are worth. Not so much to "make a killing" but to avoid "over paying" equally important, not to waste someone's time for something that is out of budget or even to get "taken" by paying too much.
The knowledge base here is immense and I feel that most newbies would benefit from knowing approximate values.
As an example, I have a 57 356A Porsche that is for sale. I have seen prices for cars in similar condition anywhere from 40K to 140K. Imagine being new to the hobby and buying something for 80K only to find out that a similar car could have been had for 50K. That's one sure way to turn new people off from the hobby.
My car may be worth 20K to me but if everyone else is selling theirs for 50K I'd be a fool to let mine go for what it's worth to me.
And then it brings up the question, "when does one stop being a newbie?" I have collected stamps for decades but never joined a club, local or national until recently. So to many I am a newbie but yet my knowledge is, perhaps, equal to those who have been in clubs for 15 years.
Another potential issue is when it comes to restoring something. Using the car analogy again, it cost pretty much the same, in materials an labor, to paint a car. Let's say 10K. One would be foolish to spend that money on a 1972 MG Midget. On the other hand if one had a 32 Bugatti or 55 Ferrari that price would be well worth it.
As a newbie I just restored my 8" Edmunds, it was a cost no object restoration even though I planned to sell it. I could have easily put 2K into it, overkill of course and probably not worth it for the Edmund, but if it were a 6" Alvan Clark ... well, you get the idea.
Just my opinion nothing more.
Kind regards,
Ron


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Datapanic
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Ron500E]
      #5739923 - 03/18/13 12:46 AM

But then you need to define the "newbie". To me, that's anyone who signed up here after 2010.

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strdst
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Reged: 03/23/08

Loc: Oregon Territory
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Datapanic]
      #5739979 - 03/18/13 01:49 AM

So glad I slipped in in early 2008. I'm oldbie! Hmmm never really wanted to be an oldbie

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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/29/10

Loc: SE Indiana
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5739983 - 03/18/13 01:53 AM

For my example I noted Meade 390 and 395 90mm refractors bringing $400-500 on ebay a couple years ago,which is the same price in$ those scopes sold for when new quite a few years ago BUT lately those models are selling slowly and under $200 !

The best face I can put on the "drive-buy" is he may have saved a classic from being sent to the landfill or recycling center;I just wish he didn't usually expect to strike it rich every time.

The person who buys scopes or any other unique or collectable solely with intention to turn a quick profit is not evil, but he is NOT an amateur (fill in name of avocation).


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Joe Cepleur
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/18/10

Loc: Dark North Woods
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: BigC]
      #5740214 - 03/18/13 08:22 AM

The discussion about acting as appraisers for newcomers rages because it is improperly defined. No one minds helping newcomers. The ire stems from aiding drivers-by. If someone has no intention of contributing to the forum, yet would happily seize information gained through years of study, that's deeply offensive. The notion that, without pricing, the scope would be trashed, is hypothetical, not real. Everyone knows about eBay. In pricing drivers-by, we are only relieving their anxiety; and, to the point of this thread, serving as an accidental cartel helping to keep prices artificially high.

I'll add that I myself am not expert in pricing, and have often benefitted from the kindness of those who are. I hate seeing friends get used.

Edited by Joe Cepleur (03/18/13 09:29 AM)


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bremms
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Reged: 08/31/12

Loc: SC
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: BigC]
      #5740216 - 03/18/13 08:23 AM

Too bad I already have so many scopes. Those 390/395's give good images. They seem to be around $120-$150. That is a bargain in my opinion.

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terraclarke
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Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: Just South of the Mason-Dixon ...
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Ron500E]
      #5740307 - 03/18/13 09:27 AM

I am taking about people with a very few posts, usually less than five within a relatively few days, and the first thing out of their mouths is basically- "Hey, look what I found! What do you think it's worth?" These people are not hard to spot and they are obviously out for a fast buck. Perhaps we should have some sort of rule where a person has to be a member for a certain amount of time, maybe a month before posting, or whereby their first 30 posts are monitored? Just an idea, but I know that I am not the only one who is irked by this kind of opportunistic behavior. Lets just see how many additional posts our flea market buddy posts in this forum or any other now that he knows that there is interest in his scope and has a good idea of its worth, and now has a somewhat overpriced add placed in the classifieds. If you think that a few of us ran him off because of our comments to the like as we had his number, then IMO you are deluding yourself. This is just my opinion

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terraclarke
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Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: Just South of the Mason-Dixon ...
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: Joe Cepleur]
      #5740309 - 03/18/13 09:29 AM



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Dave M
Postmaster
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Reged: 08/03/04

Loc: Ohio
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5740382 - 03/18/13 10:12 AM

Maybe a 30 day 30 post rule needs to apply to the classics forum like it does to Shop n swap.
I know we all hate more rules and regulations ect but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.
I dont think any noobs that join, at least very very few are going to join CN with their main interest being classic scopes anyway. Shields are up incase the rocks start flying, Just my opinion..
And Yes, i understand this could be a inconvenience to a very few noobs, but as the Great Spock once said
" the need of the Many outweigh the need of the few "

Edited by Dave M (03/18/13 10:28 AM)


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Ron500E
member


Reged: 06/01/12

Loc: Illinois, near the River Styx
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? [Re: terraclarke]
      #5740409 - 03/18/13 10:27 AM

Quote:

"Hey, look what I found! What do you think it's worth?" These people are not hard to spot and they are obviously out for a fast buck. If you think that a few of us ran him off because of our comments to the like as we had his number, then IMO you are deluding yourself. This is just my opinion




Terra:
I never suggested that he was run off because of a few posts but I do think some people may want to enter a new hobby knowing the costs before hand. Nor is it obvious to me that they are out for a fast buck, although I am sure some are. And if they are and they over price something they will have it at the end of the day. Or they just may be curious or happy at their good fortune. I saw a 76mm Sears (forgot the model number) at a local garage sale for $30. I had no idea what it was worth. I passed on it because, in my mind "it was only a Sears." Little did I know. Somewhere I heard about "Department Store telescopes" and how bad they were. There was no time to find this forum and read all the posts. I would have loved to have been able to ask the simple question, to people who have the knowledge, "what's it worth?" Maybe it would be a hundred, in which case I would have gotten a good deal, or maybe $10 in which case I would have bought an expensive paperweight.
Someone may find something at a garage sale and just want to flip it or they may decide that it's too expensive of a hobby or whatever. But I see nothing wrong with giving someone, a newbie or someone moving from reflectors to refractors, an idea as to what something is worth. I fail to see the harm in that?
I'm a newbie and wanted to buy some things for my Dynascope but I am prevented from posting in the S and S section. So I guess I have to wait, but someone may have the items I need and want to sell them so it is not serving them either.
Being a newbie if I didn't get to restore my Edmunds I'm not sure what I would post about. I did buy a Dynascope from a forum member here and on A Mart and would like a few things for it but now I must go to eBay instead of a forum member. That only serves the profiteers IMHO.
I don't think there's an answer, only opinions on this subject.
The "golden rule" (I say sarcastically) of every hobby I know is that "If I have it and want to sell it's worth a lot of money, If you have it and I want to buy it it's worth very little." No rant. Just my observations.
And yes, I do delude myself when it comes to my hobbies, you're right on that.
Kind Regards,

Ron


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Datapanic
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Reged: 10/17/09

Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? [Re: Ron500E]
      #5740461 - 03/18/13 11:01 AM

There haven't been that many newbie "how much is it worth" incidents to really make it a big deal. Just ignore them if you want, it's your choice.

I absolutely oppose any campaign to limit ALL NEWBIES privileges to post here just because of the actions of a small number of people. There's enough of that going on already on other issues outside this forum; we don't need our rights cut because of the actions of a very small group of people.

If there were some first post time limits, I probably would not have the Horsetrail Cave in my hands now and I probably would not even be here for that matter. Most newbies first posts are not questions about how much some find is worth so they can sell it. If you don't like those kinds of post, ignore them, or tell them to PM Hellen Waite.


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Happy-Idiot
Stuck with it
*****

Reged: 04/06/06

Loc: 3rd Rock
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? [Re: kansas skies]
      #5740611 - 03/18/13 12:26 PM

Quote:



I don't know about any of you, but if I list an item, I would like to get the most money possible for that item. Of course, when I buy, I like to get the best deal possible. Educating yourself on the market is the key to any successful transaction. There will always be the insanely wild listings, and sometimes these people get lucky. For the most part, I really don't see these dreamers as a driving force in market trends. My philosophy is that if you see it once and you're uncomfortable with the condition or terms, move on.




Quote:

Quite simply, the driving force behind the rising price on classic telescopes is simply the desire to own. If you want the prices to drop, stop buying. Just don't complain when your own personal collection takes a hit. Sad, but true.

Bill




I agree with your post Bill.

If you purchase a telescope for a dollar and sell it for $400 that is your business. It is not a crime to post a Unitron 114 for $1000, the crime is the person that purchases it and is unhappy with the price he paid. If the person buying the scope isn't happy with the price then pass on it.

I watched scopes go for three times the amount I was willing to pay, it pained me to pass on them, but I did. Why should I be mad at the seller for asking that "outrageous price"? After all he got his price and someone was comfortable buying it at that price. It may sting for a bit but I can't be mad at either the buyer or seller. Sour grapes and vintage collecting don't mix well, we belong to a hobby that is expensive, you can't complain because somebody isn't selling a scope at the price you want.

I have donated some scopes that I had paid a nice penny for, I have sold items for a loss, and I have sold items for a profit. I feel good when I donate and I feel good when I make a few bucks to spend on another classic. I am not into classic collecting to make money, I dig holes for a living, that makes me money. And in my opinion if someone sells classics to put food on their table or just for some extra bucks, then I say God bless them. Awhile back there was a similar topic about a member that buys scopes and parts them out for a profit. I still have to laugh because some of the members that were firing on about him, were and still are his customers. He is part of the Classic telescope economy, he is a essential player AS ARE WE ALL!

Back on topic, it is simple supply and demand. You want, you buy, it sells! You don't want, you don't buy, it doesn't sell! Right now people want classic telescopes.


Pay the price you feel comfortable paying and pass on the prices or items you don't.


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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/29/10

Loc: SE Indiana
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? [Re: bremms]
      #5740616 - 03/18/13 12:27 PM

Well, MY 390 was $10 at Goodwill.But another 390 sold for $57 at shopgoodwillonline last week -shipping to me would have been $39 ! Kind of sorry I didn't bid again before heading off to work. But experience is usually only last-minute bids OR ridiculously high bids will win.



Liked it well enough to keep looking until found the 395 on c-list (for $100)which entailed spending fours hours driving to acquire a complete in original box 395!.

I find having both az-el and eq mounted scopes convenient.

eBay exists for those who want to auction their finds of unknown-to-them value.

Watch out for the "email me before biddng " scammers.


And a for passing up a scope with low asking price at yard sales or wherever,I would have bought as a cheap form of gambling ,certainly a better chance of winning than the lottery.

Those who come here only to "take" but not ever intending to contribute are likely no big loss if "run off".


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snork
sage
*****

Reged: 01/27/12

Loc: NE Ohio
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? [Re: Datapanic]
      #5740634 - 03/18/13 12:36 PM

I first came to this forum to ask what a Dynascope was worth(think that was my first post), not because I wanted to sell one but because I was looking at buying one. I got some great advice and proudly own that scope today.
I don't think the guy with the 6345 really came here to find out what the scope was worth. He had done some research already because he is the one who stated what the scope was worth. I think he knew he had a good one and brought it here to drum up some interest for his sale.
Maybe the forum should feel flattered that a rare scope was brought here first. I am sure he got some pm's with offers.

Maybe a permanent "what's it worth" thread that people could ask that question in and members could decide for themselves if they want to help or not. Could give the collectors here a little more insight to what's available out there.


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BigC
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/29/10

Loc: SE Indiana
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? [Re: Ron500E]
      #5740658 - 03/18/13 12:49 PM

Ron,

You know the WARNING against all "department store scopes" or the claim that no scope under $500 is usable , as made by some well-known authors and others is kind of elitist hyperbole,IN MY OPINION.

Many of those scopes ,if properly adjusted and used according to directions, will bring wonders of the sky to people of limited means(like myself)especially if bought cheaply secondhand.And ,oddly, the enclosed instruction booklets are usually much more realistic in what you will see despite the gorgeous color nebula pictures and claims of fantastic power on the outside of the box.For instance the much-maligned B&L 4000 instruction booklet recommends the use of 50x per ich or 200x maximum whilst some users seem upset if images go soft when trying 300x!And Tasco booklets say much the same.If one uses those scopes at the standard? 50x per inch maximum the images are good.


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Happy-Idiot
Stuck with it
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Reged: 04/06/06

Loc: 3rd Rock
Re: Classic telescope prices on the rise? [Re: snork]
      #5740660 - 03/18/13 12:50 PM

Quote:



Maybe a permanent "what's it worth" thread that people could ask that question in and members could decide for themselves if they want to help or not. Could give the collectors here a little more insight to what's available out there.


I agree collecting these scopes should be about sharing knowledge, why block people out. Filtering value and history on these scopes may shy away some sharks but think of all the great fish we are turning away. I am glad Snork got caught in our nets. Good point Snork

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