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Pess
(Title)
*****

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Mister T]
      #5748726 - 03/21/13 11:13 PM

Quote:

"Why" isn't Occam's Razor applied to the answers to this Q?

The geometries of scale answer is the simplest and most elegant.

all the others require a huge amount of speculation on science we don't understand yet (and won't for some time) and anthropomorphize(ing) of aliens and some stolen plots from sci-fi.

BIG universe, puny humans..




The problem with this thinking is in our hubris we think we are the end of evolution instead of just another step.

Scale is dependent on TWO things: Lifespan and distance. Two planets 500 light years apart is beyond humans ability to travel at practical velocities. However these same velocities and the trip itself my be trivial to a lifeform that can live 100,000 years.

Or, to put another way, to a fly that lives one day a journey to the end of the block takes a lifetime yet to us humans it is merely a short jaunt.

Everything is relative....

Pesse (This space for rent) Mist


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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Pess]
      #5749105 - 03/22/13 06:38 AM

Indeed, if the "Singularity" ever arrives, time will become irrelevant. As long as it doesn't take Forever, it will be doable.

But in that case, "Why aren't they here?" Because the Singularity never arrived.

/Ira


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Jarad
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Ira]
      #5749120 - 03/22/13 07:00 AM

That's the thing with singularities and asymptotes - no matter how far you go, you never quite get there.

They keep you waiting longer than Heinz ketchup...



Jarad


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Pess
(Title)
*****

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Jarad]
      #5749496 - 03/22/13 11:29 AM

Quote:


But in that case, "Why aren't they here?" Because the Singularity never arrived.




The trouble is we don't know what 'They' is yet.

Would we stop and introduce ourselves to a planet full of Dinosaurs?

Pesse (To an Alien we are, perhaps, two steps below contemp.) Misr


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shawnhar
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 06/25/10

Loc: Knoxville, TN
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Jarad]
      #5749985 - 03/22/13 03:39 PM Attachment (11 downloads)

Quote:

It has been. The scale issue has come up in every thread on this topic. Occam has shaved it bald.

The problem is bald Occam is boring. It's more fun to hang out with mullet Occam, and think up hairy scenarios.



Jarad




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Jarad
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 04/28/03

Loc: Atlanta, GA
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: shawnhar]
      #5750180 - 03/22/13 05:01 PM

That's what I'm talkin' about!

Now there's who looks like he knows how to party!



Jarad

Edited by Jarad (03/22/13 05:02 PM)


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Andy Taylor
Twisted, but in a Good Way
*****

Reged: 09/24/08

Loc: Epsom - UK
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Jarad]
      #5751285 - 03/23/13 07:45 AM

Quote:

That's what I'm talkin' about!

Now there's who looks like he knows how to party!




Jarad




looks more partied out to me...


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star drop
contra contrail
*****

Reged: 02/02/08

Loc: Snow Plop, WNY
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5751549 - 03/23/13 10:57 AM

"Why "They" are not here yet"

Maybe we smell funny to them.


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Radom
member


Reged: 06/15/04

Loc: Central Oklahoma
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: star drop]
      #5752269 - 03/23/13 04:43 PM

Answer is some combination of the following:

We aren't fattened up enough, yet.

They are not ready to eat, yet.

(Ever feel as if you're just a part of a herd??)


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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Radom]
      #5752373 - 03/23/13 05:53 PM

if they think we aren't fattened up enough yet, then they ain't been to walmart lately

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WaterMasterAdministrator
Moat Keeper
*****

Reged: 02/17/10

Loc: Southeast Idaho, USA
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Mister T]
      #5752590 - 03/23/13 08:02 PM

Quote:

if they think we aren't fattened up enough yet, then they ain't been to walmart lately




Maybe that's the problem - they like lean meat.


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Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: WaterMaster]
      #5752711 - 03/23/13 09:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

if they think we aren't fattened up enough yet, then they ain't been to walmart lately




Maybe that's the problem - they like lean meat.




Walmart is where "they" hang out!


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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #5752775 - 03/23/13 09:35 PM

If they haven't been to Walmart, they obviously aren't "here" yet.

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Staredge
member


Reged: 04/05/12

Loc: Germantown, MD
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: llanitedave]
      #5752825 - 03/23/13 09:56 PM

Another thought I had heard was that any civilization that developed enough technologically to consider interstellar travel probably blew itself up before they could get there. Considering the state of the world we live in.........

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llanitedave
Humble Megalomaniac
*****

Reged: 09/26/05

Loc: Amargosa Valley, NV, USA
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Pess]
      #5752843 - 03/23/13 10:06 PM

Quote:


The problem with this thinking is in our hubris we think we are the end of evolution instead of just another step.





If we don't get lucky, we just may indeed be the end of evolution -- our own, at least.


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Joad
Wordsmith
*****

Reged: 03/22/05

Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Staredge]
      #5752912 - 03/23/13 10:49 PM

Quote:

Another thought I had heard was that any civilization that developed enough technologically to consider interstellar travel probably blew itself up before they could get there. Considering the state of the world we live in.........




That is Carl Sagan's hypothesis.

There is another possibility. How old is our own Solar System? Five billion years or so? Well, until the last century earth would not have counted as a technologically advanced planet. And that rapid explosion of technology that began in very late 18th-century Europe would probably not have happened if the Mongols had not once but at least twice decided not to complete their medieval invasions of Europe (Genghis Khan and Tamerlaine both turned back from what would have been sure thing conquests).

And we also know that stars have a shelf life. The first stars had a very short one, but with the later stars how many solar system generations have there been so far? Two? Not quite three?

My points are that:

a. Technological development of life is not inevitable

and

b. Whatever technological development there has been universe wide, a lot of it is likely to have disappeared with the disappearance of solar systems.

Then there is:

c. The universe, as Douglas Adams put it, is a really mind-bogglingly big place. We aren't "there" yet; why should anyone be "here"?


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Ira
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 08/22/10

Loc: Mitzpe Ramon, Israel
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Joad]
      #5754708 - 03/24/13 06:40 PM

Consider this: The universe is 13.78 billion years old. Only for the last 45 years have we been capable of space flight. We still have zero capabilities for interstellar flight. Give it time. Another few billion years or so and we may finally get "There". Or They will get "Here".

/Ira


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Mister T
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/01/08

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Ira]
      #5754889 - 03/24/13 08:16 PM

In a few billion years "there" won't be there any more.

it will be out past there.

Eventually you won't be able to get there from here!!


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Pess
(Title)
*****

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: Why "They" are not here yet [Re: Staredge]
      #5756718 - 03/25/13 06:04 PM

Quote:

Another thought I had heard was that any civilization that developed enough technologically to consider interstellar travel probably blew itself up before they could get there. Considering the state of the world we live in.........




So then where are these extinct civilizations Voyager probes? The Universe has been around long enough for them to get here.

Pesse (Wouldn't it be cool for us to bounce a radar off of some 'really weird' asteroid only to discover it was a long lost probe from some long lost civilization wandering along in a long lost way?) Mist


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Pess
(Title)
*****

Reged: 09/12/07

Loc: Toledo, Ohio
Re: Why "They" are not here yet new [Re: Pess]
      #5756720 - 03/25/13 06:07 PM

'They' are out there.

Pesse ('They' just don't give a rats azz about us.) mist


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