precaud
sage
Reged: 12/05/12
Loc: Sunny New Mexico
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Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
#5740650 - 03/18/13 12:48 PM
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Wanting to make sure I'm posting in the right forum... 
I just picked up one of these, made in August of 1985. Looks to be complete, except for the manual, and in very good shape.
Is anyone out there still using one of these?
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rmollise
Postmaster
Reged: 07/06/07
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: precaud]
#5740702 - 03/18/13 01:18 PM
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Do you want it to be? If so, it is. 
I've used enough of 'em over the years if you have a question.
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apfever
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/13/08
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: rmollise]
#5740733 - 03/18/13 01:36 PM
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I'd say yes it is. I had one complete, sold it, then ended up with a complete mount I still have. The DS-16 blue tube set up is a classic hernia job. I'd pick up each of the three counter weights sepperately. Even the two small ones together became a chore. The blue tube OTA is probably the heaviest OTA I ever owned.
Typically good optics. My blue tube was good, and my current grab n go 16" truss has the DS-16 optics.
Pictures?
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precaud
sage
Reged: 12/05/12
Loc: Sunny New Mexico
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: rmollise]
#5740781 - 03/18/13 01:58 PM
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If it's that easy, then yes, so be it. 
Rod, I recall seeing your handle show up when I did my pre-buy research. The one I bought was previously owned by CN member "Alleline", there are numerous posts in the archives about it, which was definitely helpful.
My intent was to turn this into a dob, but when I picked it up, I learned that it came with a set of 20" cast aluminum rings, so it makes sense to at least give it a shot on the GEM. I've never owned a GEM, so my questions may reflect that.
The dec motor/gearing appear to be a weak link. I'm inclined to not even use them unless/until I decide I'll stay with the GEM. Make sense?
When I was checking it out, the guy had two extensions AND had the EP pulled out slightly to get it to focus with it racked out nearly all the way. Apparently this thing was originally set up for AP. So it would seem to make sense to either move the primary back or the spider forward for visual use.
Then, when I got it home, I noticed that, at all useful focuser positions, the primary or secondary or both were being vignetted by the thick sonotube. In normal focuser positions, 1/2" or more of the primary's radius is lost.
So I'm thinking to solve both of these, enlarge the existing focuser hole toward the front, make an adapter plate for the focuser, and move the 2ndary vane forward along with it. Make sense?
apfever, I'll post some pics when I can, the OTA is on the floor at the moment. You're right, everything is heavy on this thing... 
Edited by precaud (03/18/13 02:55 PM)
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Da Bear
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/21/06
Loc: Kali-Forn-Ya
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: precaud]
#5740791 - 03/18/13 02:05 PM
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Yes...pic's please.
Da Bear
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rmollise
Postmaster
Reged: 07/06/07
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: precaud]
#5740850 - 03/18/13 02:45 PM
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Yeah, I'd forget the dec motor. It was only useful, really, for photographic guiding, and the old beast really ain't up to that. I'd replace the focuser with a lower profile one, move the mirror as needed, and probably downsize the secondary.
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precaud
sage
Reged: 12/05/12
Loc: Sunny New Mexico
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: rmollise]
#5740895 - 03/18/13 03:03 PM
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OK, thanks. The dec can still be tweaked manually with the knob if needed.
Until I commit to this thing, I'd prefer no- or low- cost solutions, so I'll likely fly with the existing focuser for now. So far, I haven't seen any indication that a smaller 2ndary is in the cards. I haven't taken the primary cell out, so I don't know if there's room to scoot it back yet. That would be the simplest solution.
I noticed that the primary is not centered in the cell. Is that normal? Part of it's "offset" collimation"?
PS - I corrected my post above, I meant 1/2" of radius was lost, not 1/2" of diameter...
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precaud
sage
Reged: 12/05/12
Loc: Sunny New Mexico
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: apfever]
#5741288 - 03/18/13 05:58 PM Attachment (23 downloads)
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I figured out how to get the OTA on and off the mount fairly smoothly without a helper. Here's a quick pic.
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Bob Myler
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/18/06
Loc: St Louis, MO
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: apfever]
#5741345 - 03/18/13 06:19 PM
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I'd say yes it is. I had one complete, sold it, then ended up with a complete mount I still have. The DS-16 blue tube set up is a classic hernia job. I'd pick up each of the three counter weights sepperately. Even the two small ones together became a chore. The blue tube OTA is probably the heaviest OTA I ever owned.
Typically good optics. My blue tube was good, and my current grab n go 16" truss has the DS-16 optics.
Pictures?
Recently picked up its little brother - a Deep Space 10. Meade sold them thru Crown Optics. Mine came with the optional #680 focuser, #530 viewfinder (very nice), #787 motor drive and #55 manual dec control. To reduce weight - its original owner replaced the sonotube with a white fiberglass tube from Parks. MUCH lighter.
The original DS-16 with "Zolatone" coated sonotube came in at 85 pounds for the tube assembly and 140 pounds for the mount - 225 lbs total. The stock DS-10 weighed-in at less than a third of that (72 lbs., tube + mount). The Parks tube reduced that by at least another 15 pounds.
Back in 1983 - a stock DS-16 sold for $1185.00 - while a "stock" DS-10 went for $449.50.
John - while I don't have the original manual for the DS-16 - I do have copies of its promotional literature, original price and options sheet, 14 page Q&A on both models from Crown Optics, plus the 16 page Instruction Manual for the DS-10. If interested in any copies - PM me.
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Don Taylor
sage
Reged: 07/12/09
Loc: Kansas
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: precaud]
#5741472 - 03/18/13 07:16 PM
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My ds10 also vignetted so I moved the primary down by redriing the attach holes for the 3 bars that attach the mirror cell. I ended up drilling midway between the existing holes and only using 2 screws per bar. Solved all problems.
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TimD
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/16/05
Loc: CA USA
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: Don Taylor]
#5741559 - 03/18/13 07:48 PM
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That sure is a beast! not a grab and go by my definition, I've looked through a couple and the view was not bad. Rod's suggestions are great idea if you decide you want to upgrade it and make it more of a joy to use....I have to admit I used to look at the ad's way back when and dream of having one!
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precaud
sage
Reged: 12/05/12
Loc: Sunny New Mexico
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: Bob Myler]
#5741669 - 03/18/13 08:31 PM
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Bob, thanks for the info. Your DS-10 with Parks tube sounds sweet. Very manageable, indeed! What exactly does the #55 manual dec control consist of?
I'll PM you shortly.
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precaud
sage
Reged: 12/05/12
Loc: Sunny New Mexico
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: Don Taylor]
#5741691 - 03/18/13 08:39 PM
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My ds10 also vignetted so I moved the primary down by redriing the attach holes for the 3 bars that attach the mirror cell. I ended up drilling midway between the existing holes and only using 2 screws per bar. Solved all problems.
Thanks Don. One wonders how they produced them, knowing they vignetted like that...
On the DS-16, there is 3" between the holes, so 1.5" did the trick. I'm hesitant to support the weight of the 16's mirror with just two screws each...
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Bob Myler
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/18/06
Loc: St Louis, MO
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: precaud]
#5741750 - 03/18/13 09:05 PM
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The optional #55 dec control was used on Meade's 6", 8" and 10" reflectors and - at twice the price so I assume it was substantially larger - the #65RS was reserved exclusively for the DS-16. Your tangent arm looks similar to the #55 - but appears much longer (and therefore likely much finer in its adjustments) than mine. Installing or removing it (I have the instructions for the #55) involves removing the declination shaft - and this requires that the optical tube be remove from its cradle + the dec setting circles, counterweights (25 lbs for the THIN one!) and safety collar (toe saver). To reduce friction, two teflon washers were included with the manual system. Like all tangent arms - a simple turn of the knob in either direction will move your scope in declination...
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Bob Myler
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 05/18/06
Loc: St Louis, MO
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: Bob Myler]
#5741785 - 03/18/13 09:18 PM
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John - PM'd you tonight and I'll e-mail you tomorrow...
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Don Taylor
sage
Reged: 07/12/09
Loc: Kansas
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: precaud]
#5742059 - 03/18/13 11:44 PM
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Quote:
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My ds10 also vignetted so I moved the primary down by redriing the attach holes for the 3 bars that attach the mirror cell. I ended up drilling midway between the existing holes and only using 2 screws per bar. Solved all problems.
Thanks Don. One wonders how they produced them, knowing they vignetted like that...
On the DS-16, there is 3" between the holes, so 1.5" did the trick. I'm hesitant to support the weight of the 16's mirror with just two screws each...
You could drill and tap matching holes in the aluminum bars to match the odd holes. I used a small template to assure all 3 bars were moved the same amount.
I recall with my ds10 (I'm the original owner) was that ordering the 2" focuser (apparently for ap) resulted in the focuser and secondary being located to produce focus further outside the scope. I have copies of the old Meade/Crownoptics ads here somewhere. I'll try to find some of them.
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precaud
sage
Reged: 12/05/12
Loc: Sunny New Mexico
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: Don Taylor]
#5742620 - 03/19/13 10:46 AM
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You could drill and tap matching holes in the aluminum bars to match the odd holes. I used a small template to assure all 3 bars were moved the same amount.
True, and easy enough to do. I'll check it out when I pull the primary... which is so covered in dust that NO reflections can be seen in the autocollimator!
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precaud
sage
Reged: 12/05/12
Loc: Sunny New Mexico
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: precaud]
#5743887 - 03/19/13 08:01 PM Attachment (7 downloads)
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And a set of 500mm cast aluminum rings. The OTA is 19" O.D. As you can see, the previous owner tried to fill the gap with 1/4" plywood covered with suede leather... not a good choice of materials. I have some 1/2" to 5/8" medium-density wool felt that should work much better.
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precaud
sage
Reged: 12/05/12
Loc: Sunny New Mexico
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Re: Is the Meade DS-16 a "classic" yet?
[Re: Don Taylor]
#5769542 - 03/31/13 07:31 PM
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My ds10 also vignetted so I moved the primary down by redriing the attach holes for the 3 bars that attach the mirror cell. I ended up drilling midway between the existing holes and only using 2 screws per bar. Solved all problems.
I finished re-centering the primary in the cell (previous owner had messed that up) and moved it back 1.1" today. It was supposed to be 1.5" as Don did but the darned tap snapped in the first hole I drilled so I stepped it back a bit and moved on. The 1.1" ended being right on and as you said, it solved all the vignetting problems.
With the secondary centered, it now collimates spot-on. That secondary is definitely a pain to adjust, but after really torquing down the holding screws, it holds collimation even as the OTA is flipped and rotated about. So it's good for now. But at some point a new spider/holder will be in order.
I haven't cleaned the filthy mirrors yet, but I did some daytime viewing of familiar terrestrial targets and I'm very impressed. Big mirrors are like having a V8 under the hood, seemingly effortless, stable power. I like it.
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