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highfnum
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/06/06

Loc: NE USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #3940926 - 07/24/10 08:16 AM

interesting timing
are modern films same as 20-30 years ago?


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Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #3941052 - 07/24/10 09:54 AM

I believe the HP5 is the same. Tri-X, probably the same. T-Max 100 is the same, but TMAX 400 has been reformulated (TMY-2), for the better. It may be a good candidate for hypering.

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highfnum
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 09/06/06

Loc: NE USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #3944211 - 07/25/10 10:00 PM

do any of u guys take multiple images then scan and stack?

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Nightfly
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Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #3944664 - 07/26/10 06:10 AM

I sometimes make mosaics with multiple frames. These can be done in PS, but I find Autostitch is much easier.

Here is three frames with a 300mm f/4@ f/5.6

http://www.nightfly.zoomshare.com/album/Pentax%2067%20Gallery/images/2509c2b32709ceb4566b9bd9dd26716d_12337147500/:album?css=/lib/style/arial.css&css=/lib/style/type_album.css&css=files/custom.css


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SeaRefractor
member


Reged: 02/26/11

Loc: SeaTac, WA, USA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: EJN]
      #5726320 - 03/11/13 04:50 PM

Quote:

I still have 1 OM-1 body and
the 50mm lens. Haven't used it for several years, the
light seals are falling out & turning to goo.




It's been a little while and you may not have that camera any longer, but I found a great source for light seal kits here: http://camerasealkit.com/om1.html

Seperately, there's a good OM-1 information site here: http://olympus.dementix.org/M-1/index.html Even has some maintenance information if you need to clean out the goo.


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laconicsax
super member


Reged: 10/05/10

Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: highfnum]
      #5729684 - 03/13/13 04:52 AM

Since this thread got kicked up and is new to me, here're my $.02:

Quote:

1) Why is film still being used - what are advantages at this time?




The biggest advantage, for me, is cost. I don't have a DSLR or CCD, but do have a film SLR and lenses, so right off the bat, that's hundreds of dollars (at least) that I don't have to spend. I crunched the numbers a couple of years ago and found that once I've shot something like 30-40 rolls (600-800 exposures), I'll have spent as much on film and processing as a used DSLR and will be much better at the actual skills and techniques required to get quality images. There's also an advantage to not being dependent on too much stuff. My SLR is purely mechanical and I guide manually, so there's no laptop, no autoguider, no worries about batteries dying and losing data, etc.

Quote:

2) Does anyone in this forum still use Schmidt camera's



No idea.

Quote:

3) Is it going to become totaly impossible in a few years get film developed?



Well, it's now 2013 there are still plenty of labs, 1-hour photo places around, and equipment to develop at home is still pretty easy to get, so I think the answer is no.


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Nightfly
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Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: laconicsax]
      #5729731 - 03/13/13 06:12 AM

I know many that have wonderful film equipment that just sits in a camera bag. Like you, I don't have the coin to throw mine aside and build another system. I find that I can work well with what I already own and that this is not a limitation, but a liberation from the constant upgrade hell that the industry has designed in the photographic world.

"...few photographers ever master their medium. Instead they allow the medium to master them and go on an endless squirrel cage chase from new lens to new paper to new developer to new gadget, never staying with one piece of equipment long enough to learn its full capacities, becoming lost in a maze of technical information that is of little or no use since they don't know what to do with it." - Edward Weston


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Michal1
sage


Reged: 07/25/10

Loc: Czech Republic, Central Europe
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #5730970 - 03/13/13 07:33 PM

1) Believe it or not, I simply prefer the look of film images over the digital ones, especially those wide field. Even though the digital images are usually sharper and often show fainter objects. The film colours are more pleasant to my eye and there is something which I can't define well - I'd call it the structure of the image.

Today, I was interested whether there are digital images of the Rho Ophiuchi region with colours as magnificient as those of some film images I know. I entered "rho ophiuchi" into Google image search. From the hundreds of images found, I selected the one that I liked most and looked, what camera it was taken by. It was Dave Kodama's image taken on E200 :-).

2) There was a member who was going to start using a Schmidt camera. He made his last post several months ago.

3) The development seems not to be a big problem. The worst problem starts to be the availability of good scanning, at least here. Nikon seems to stop to supply spare parts for their scanners. So when any part a scanner gets broken, the scanner can be thrown away. I'm not sure who will scan my next film.


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Jeff Phinney
super member


Reged: 02/20/13

Loc: CA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Michal1]
      #5749848 - 03/22/13 02:27 PM

After having bought my first digital camera back in '99 I don't recall having taken a single halide based image since then, but reading these film based astrophotography threads has made me nostalgic for the old film days, and with some of the new low/lower reciprocity failure films out there, I've decided to give it a try and get back into it again. But first......

I broke out the "old work horse" OM-2 that my wife and I bought back when we married in 1980 and had it looked over by the local camera repair shop. Up to this point, and oddly enough with with my background, I'd never given a single thought as to what time does to a camera that's been sitting unused in a closet for 14 years. I thought it would be perfectly fine regardless. How wrong I was.

First of all and most obvious, all the leatherette on the outside of the protective camera case has deteriorated and is falling off of the body. It's now a sorry and ugly looking mess, but no big deal, It still functions perfectly fine in doing its job of protecting the camera body, but that's the least of the camera's problems.
Anyone have an idea as to how to restore leatherette? The camera repair folks said they would pay me good money if I came up with a cheap, workable fix. Hah..

As for the camera itself, the first thing the folks at the shop checked was to see if the shutter was operating properly. Turns out that the shutter is worthless for exposures less than 1/60 of a second. Next thing they showed me is that the iris of the camera's original 50mm Zuiko lens is frozen wide open. The 28mm Tokina and 200mm Soligor I had purchased for use with the camera body also have their iris' stuck wide open. Not sure what additional repairs will be needed, but it seems that the lubricating oils used in the lenses and the camera body have lost their volatiles and have subsequently turned onto glue or concrete. That's what happens if the lenses are not exercised in all that time. Slow shutter and stuck iris', none of this makes much of a difference when doing astrophotography,... that is if one doesn't mind the additional aberrations that go along with the lenses being wide open.

Call me crazy, but please don't tell my wife, I've decided to go ahead and have the camera shop proceed with the needed repairs somewhere at a cost of around(cough, cough) $200. The cost doesn't include the Tokina and Soligor lenses, which they said I was better off scraping. However, I do think I'll give it a try fixing them myself since I can sometimes actually be handy in that way, but again, please don't tell my wife.
Besides, what do I have to lose?

Before anyone goes and calls me a sentimentalist, spending that kind of money to rehabilitate something like this, remember this is what photography/astrophotography itself is all about. Now all I have to do is get my turn table working again so I can get those old LPs digitized that were never released on vinyl just so I can listen to them on CDs.
No MP3s for me,... No Sir!


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THEPLOUGH
ELEVEN Grandchildren; FIVE Ducklings
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Reged: 01/11/08

Loc: Carlisle, Cumbria, ENGLAND
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Jeff Phinney]
      #5750467 - 03/22/13 07:45 PM

...And I promise, not a word to your good lady...

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Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film [Re: THEPLOUGH]
      #5750549 - 03/22/13 08:30 PM

This is wonderful news Jeff. I'm sure the camera will begin to feel like old hat again. We will all be anxious to see your progress. By all means please keep us informed on what you are up to. The whole process that you have begun will make a great story.

Welcome back!

Jim


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TechPan6415
sage
*****

Reged: 07/29/12

Loc: Aspen, Co
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: EJN]
      #5974684 - 07/16/13 05:34 PM

Quote:

As for the darkroom equipment, you can hardly give the
stuff away, so I dumped it along with the paper & chemicals.
I will not miss darkroom work. Spending countless hours
breathing stop-bath & fixer fumes (yes I had a ventilation
fan in the darkroom) probably contributed to the chronic
migraine headaches I get now. I'll take PhotoShop anyday.




Not the really good stuff, it is very hard to find in good condition and costs quite a bit. Try sourcing a 150 F/4 Rodagon Apo-N or a 105 Rodagon G mural lens. Try getting an LPL 4550XLG / VCCE for under a grand. RH Designs equipment has gone through the roof!

I have been using digital professionally for 20 years, it's gotten better but what it has done to the industry and worse...the perception of what makes a *good* photograph...is not good, frankly it has turned photography into pop-art junk.

After this year, I am done with it and all the computer related stuff. I love my darkroom, totally state of the art, not nearly as stinky chemistry in using citrus based stop bath and a super high tech variable speed ventilation system.

But the best part? It is not producing soon to be utterly worthless digi-*BLEEP*, is producing gorgeous hand made photographs that go for $500 a print, minimum and will only go up from there.

Why use the same brainless garbage every other hack uses, especially if you have the market and the talent?

I understand about astrophotography though, it makes sense. But I don't really do that since it is hard to get unique shots that put things into artistic perspective.


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Jeff Phinney
super member


Reged: 02/20/13

Loc: CA
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: TechPan6415]
      #5974798 - 07/16/13 06:49 PM

Quote:

I love my darkroom, totally state of the art, not nearly as stinky chemistry in using citrus based stop bath and a super high tech variable speed ventilation system.





But I love the smell of acetic acid in the morning.... or what ever time of day it is.


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orion61

*****

Reged: 10/20/07

Loc: Birthplace James T Kirk
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Jeff Phinney]
      #5978345 - 07/18/13 05:09 PM

I still have all my old Minolta cameras and lenses,
I still love the way they feel and function. I lovingly keep them clean and maintained.. someday at my estate sale some person will buy a box of stuff and dump them in the Goodwill Box... But for everything bad you can say about Digital (False color)
there are 2 with film, Bloated Stars/fogging/ etc, Film was fun, So was Super 8, but it is a technology time has passed up.
I had a Dark Room and also suffer from Migrains that I didn't before. Film is so expensive and getting harder to find except the most generic dummy prooof types.
There are so many programs you can achieve virtually any film effect, like grain, contrast, fogging etc.
One thing I do not miss is spending 5 hrs in sub zero temp for a few shots that "may" come out...
Sorry guys, I have to put my hat in the Digital ring,
There is No way film can come close to todays Planetary Digital shots..
Makes me kinda sad...
Larry


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Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: orion61]
      #5979577 - 07/19/13 10:42 AM

I would agree that for the majority of work, film takes a backseat to digital, especially at present. Remember ten-fifteen years ago when they said film was dead? Digital was very poor by today's standards and at that time medium format film still exceeded digital. But what I hear from many today is that film is dead....now.

Practiced at its ideal and with zeal, film can still pull it off IMHO. I would not recommend anyone to start astrophotography with film today, except maybe for startrail work where the results are simply wonderful...still. For those of us that practiced the craft for decades and have a fondness for the aesthetics of the medium, we will continue to produce analog work that at least to our own eyes is quality work.

Is it harder and inconvenient? Sure. Does it make sense to maintain this forum? Probably not if it is going to be a museum for pictures of a bygone era, which is an ever increasing theme here.

There are only a handful of film shooters left in the analog astrophotography realm and there will be fewer still as time progresses.

I've been shooting digital for several month now and my last film shot (astro) was last October. I'm impressed by what I see with new capabilities that I am not used to having. It is simply wonderful. That being said, the look of film is something that captures my heart. As a result I cannot give it up. Not just yet.


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Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: orion61]
      #5984868 - 07/22/13 05:44 PM

Can't argue with facts. It's more an artistic concept that keeps me shooting film. For landscape work, or wide field astro, it gives a certain look, and feel which just runs in my blood. I'm also at an age where I don't care anymore about the latest and greatest gadget, phone, or camera.

The only downside to digital to me is exactly that, where there is a constant push to upgrade or replace equipment recently purchased. New camera, new lenses, what the previous model stopped working?

Igor


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Michal1
sage


Reged: 07/25/10

Loc: Czech Republic, Central Europe
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nebhunter]
      #5998947 - 07/30/13 07:00 PM

Quote:

... wide field astro, it gives a certain look, and feel which just runs in my blood.



That's it exactly. It is a certain combibination of perfectness and imperfectness which makes film images so attractive. With the same lens, exposure settings and probably lesser effort digital sensors can produce deeper and sharper images than film. But is a technicaly good astrophoto really the equivalent of a nice astrophoto? Not for me.


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Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Michal1]
      #5999570 - 07/31/13 06:14 AM

I took two photographs with the same lens, the SMC Pentax 67 200mm F/4. One with the 67, the other with the Pentax K-01 digital camera.

The central portion shows the APS-C sensor capture within the 6x7 frame captured on E200. Although the digital capture was more detailed, the 6X7 frame is much larger in field size, lens for lens. A 75mm lens on the digital would closely mach the resulting field size of the 200 on the 67 and that would be a fair game for comparison in overall resolution per field size. I'll have to try that sometime.

I thought this example would be good for those who ask me about the differences in the format sizes.


Sagittarius Milky Way: APS-C on 6X7 Frame by Nightfly Photography, on Flickr


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Nightfly
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 06/20/07

Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #5999589 - 07/31/13 06:38 AM

I echo Igor and Michal's sentiments. This is a hobby, a craft for which I gain tremendous reward. I choose to shoot film because it is something that pleases me. I choose to live in the world of the photographic process where I am not constantly looking to upgrade to the next gadget, software, or complete camera systems. I do not want to lust after equipment, which I see as the real state of affairs in the photographic marketplace. Do I have limitations? Sure do. I place my effort on what is possible with what I have.

I don't have a lot of money. I worked damn hard for what gear I do have. I am raising a family and trying to find the balance. I share my photography with forums such as these. I take away your good comments and gain encouragement to move on and do more.

Do I think film as I use it is better than digital? For me, yes. I love what it does and how it renders the great vistas of the Milky Way. It is more in line with what I desired to achieve as a budding astrophotographer thirty years ago. For me, this is not a race, but a personal desire.

As for where I live. I live under one of the darkest skies in America. The envy of many astrophotographers. I treasure it. It is a great starting points for successful images as well as deep sky observing. So as limited as I may be in the means I choose to work with, I have the best skies to do it in.


I'll finish my rant with thought from my photographer's bio:

Iíve always been a lover of the night sky and realized photography to be a natural outlet for actively participating in, and learning more about the nocturnal scene. Astrophotography is a difficult pursuit, requiring one to amass knowledge of photography and astronomy, as well as the legacy of the pioneers that blazed the way in the photographic arts and sciences. Composition and execution of long exposures are often daunting, but quite rewarding when vision and technique guide the way to successful images.

It is what is not seen that drives me invest much time to expose each image, capturing beyond the scope of the human eye and revealing the nature of what is present regardless of our ability to see. It is the power of method and the mind's eye to recognize the potential of each composition. This is where I find my inspiration for a photograph, the results of which often make the whole endeavor worth the time and effort.

Patience is a must, and a welcome discipline in a busy world intent on making things faster and more efficient. It is taking time to think, love, and learn that yields fruit in life, and so it is in photography. Right now, my work is inseparable from where I want to be when I am feeling my best and the opportunity avails itself to create something new. I live to create.


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Nebhunter
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/04/03

Loc: Frostbite Falls
Re: Current state of affairs in Film new [Re: Nightfly]
      #6002467 - 08/02/13 01:29 AM

Amen, my brother of the night sky.

igor


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