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Equipment Discussions >> Classic Telescopes

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highertheflyer
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: BarrySimon615]
      #5777754 - 04/04/13 01:37 PM

I've watched the PBS ANTIQUES ROADSHOW and newer cable programming such as PAWNSTARS, yet wondered how the so called "experts", actually achieved the means for todays pricing's. For me it's assumed the exposures enhance their "Prestige Professionals" and to establish rulings for appraisl and insurance assessments.
Did I mention enhancements to "Professional Recognitions, and Pocketbooks" ???
As an example, I've a collection of furniture from a deceased relative forming a portion of this home today.
Now when formally I sell, there will be an auctions' media representative to gain the knowledge and interests in final formal bidding's.
Antique cars and cattle have presence on cable television and viewing there enhances opportunities to sell at higher prices.
Antique hobby trains are another case in point, but most of those high dollar items were packed away in attics with original packaging, yet unaware the boxes were worth nearly as much as the train item inside!

Telescopes are much larger and rarely does one find cartons with original packaging's
So no entity, excepting a few dedicated handfull's of antique telescope buffs, will ever gain this interest, and no profit orientated cable channel will ever place our telescopes on auctions for their programming!

Now as a dedicated group, are are left to our own means, and shall we resist the museum's dusty warehouses?

To thus perhaps a youngster, a view of the nights lights from early sights of their grandfathers?

Just my two cents,
Jim

Edited by highertheflyer (04/04/13 03:45 PM)


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Bonco
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5778094 - 04/04/13 04:36 PM

Quote:

I believe that the buyers in the market are, and will continue to be the sole determiner of prices for any instrument, no matter how finely made or prestigious, as they are without exception luxury goods - they are not bread.




Yes! Let the market place determine the value. Too many variables to create a meaningful price list. Also the values will contiue to change as time goes by.
Bill


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starman876
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: Bonco]
      #5778172 - 04/04/13 05:22 PM

http://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=67228&sor...

another 142 selling for $2300.
Barry
I have a feeling that your price list needs a lot of adjustment.
Instead of a price list guide why not just a spreadsheet that follows the sale of Unitrons. The more research I do I cannot justify recommending a pricing guide. I hope this is not a baby you fell in love with and cannot let go.


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BarrySimon615
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: starman876]
      #5778222 - 04/04/13 05:57 PM

Quote:

So, if many buyers do their own research and most of us know what the value of these classic telescopes is why do we need a price guide that does not provide a grading factor like overall condition. What extras come with the scope. Without these factors the price guide is really worthelss.




If what you are referring to as a price guide is the poll (on UnitronTelescopes), there is an "overall condition" parameter set - very good to excellent condition. Additionally I do, in the original question and in the forum message about the poll do establish further guidelines - specifically, for the model # given, the answers of individuals concerning price should be for complete scopes as in the descriptive text in catalogs for that particular scope. If someone does not have a catalog, most of them can be found in our "Files Section". We are talking about complete scopes with eyepieces and either a diagonal or Uni-Hex. Motor drives should not be included as these were considered accessory items.

Anyone having difficulty with the question should not participate in the poll and anyone who has not actually bought or sold one of the models in question should not participate in the poll.

Ultimately this serves as just another reference in helping someone price out a scope. The catalyst for all of this was a private meassage query I got here on CloudyNights from the owner of one of the scopes included on the poll. He wanted my help in helping him price what he had for sale. The poll is what I decided would be useful for him......and perhaps for others. The results that I am seeing so far dovetail pretty darn well with my preconceived notion about what kind of price range I would see. In short it seems to be right on the money to me for right now.

Barry Simon


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starman876
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: BarrySimon615]
      #5778259 - 04/04/13 06:19 PM

Well Barry, in all fairness once you decide what the right prices are you should than ask us all if we think the prices are correct. There are some die hard collectors here who know very well what prices these scopes fetch. Of course if you follow tile guy lately and his auctions you will see that some of the parts that has sold lately on ebay blows your price guide out of the water. However, it would be best not to mention that

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BarrySimon615
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: starman876]
      #5778275 - 04/04/13 06:27 PM

Quote:

another 142 selling for $2300.
Barry

I have a feeling that your price list needs a lot of adjustment.

Instead of a price list guide why not just a spreadsheet that follows the sale of Unitrons. The more research I do I cannot justify recommending a pricing guide. I hope this is not a baby you fell in love with and cannot let go.




No, not really. The two #142 scopes you mentioned at high prices are really lying outside the curve in a sense. The first one you referenced is really an amazing scope in showroom new condition if the pictures can be believed. If I had the hots for another Unitron #142 and had the money for it, it would be tempting (but then again I bought a #145 which is the 3" photo-equatorial in showroom condition for $600 back in 1987). The scope you just mentioned has additional equipment which add to the price - the Astronomy Shoppe motor drive which sells for about $300 and the catalog, some of those are going for $30 to $50, amazing for something that used to be given away free. You will note too that this particular 3" is an early model with some of the tell tale features of an early #142 - holes in the RA gear, setting circles, attachment wing nuts, etc. Early models tend to catch the interest of the collectors, driving price up. Additionally there is a category for prices like this in the poll.

I am tempted to give you more data about poll results so far which I will do but only via Private Message and only with the promise that you will not divulge what I tell you either here or on the UnitronTelescopes forums, at least not until I conclude the poll on the 15th.

Barry Simon


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starman876
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: BarrySimon615]
      #5778283 - 04/04/13 06:29 PM

You send me a 145 in mint condition you can buy my silence

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starman876
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: starman876]
      #5778286 - 04/04/13 06:32 PM

Oh wait, never mind, the last thing I need is another telescope. Guess you will have to trust me

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Bonco
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: starman876]
      #5778569 - 04/04/13 09:05 PM

Quote:

http://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=67228&sor...

another 142 selling for $2300.
Barry
I have a feeling that your price list needs a lot of adjustment.
Instead of a price list guide why not just a spreadsheet that follows the sale of Unitrons. The more research I do I cannot justify recommending a pricing guide. I hope this is not a baby you fell in love with and cannot let go.



Forget any price list. I'd only offer my superb 142 for over $2000 probably around $2300. It's worth that much and more to me.
Bill


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starman876
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: Bonco]
      #5782372 - 04/06/13 06:32 PM

As the old saying goes. Never do anything that will bite you in the ars later in life. Barry is about to learn this lesson in life

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highertheflyer
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: starman876]
      #5782827 - 04/06/13 10:38 PM

And oh to be the bloke that lives in Australia as to such a lucky fellow, a beautiful find!
Hope the final price is actually published.
Jim


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BarrySimon615
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: starman876]
      #5782931 - 04/07/13 12:19 AM

Quote:

As the old saying goes. Never do anything that will bite you in the ars later in life. Barry is about to learn this lesson in life




You know Starman 876, most that have commented in the Unitron Group do support my generation of the poll. I have explained my rationale for and the criteria for it enough so that there is absolutely no need to defend it further. You persist in attempting to demean it, to ridicule it and to state that I will regret doing this. My question is how so? Will the "Free Market Police" come take me away in the dead of the night? I think not, and the last time I checked, we were still able to speak our mind and to render our opinions. You have obviously given all your opinion on the subject. You are entitled to that, so if you want, keep at it. I just want to be on record as saying, it doesn't change a thing, as last I looked, I was entitled to speak my mind as well. So at this point just sit back, chill out and just wait for the poll results. There is absolutely nothing you can do to deter me from seeing this through and I am absolutely not worried about anything "biting me later in life", much less you.

Best regards,

Barry Simon

Note - I always am willing to freely share my complete real name, how about you?


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Rich (RLTYS)Moderator
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: starman876]
      #5783217 - 04/07/13 07:12 AM

Quote:

As the old saying goes. Never do anything that will bite you in the ars later in life. Barry is about to learn this lesson in life




Starman876, please don't make me have to lock this thread. KEEP IT FRIENDLY.

Rich (RLTYS)


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terraclarke
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5783540 - 04/07/13 10:55 AM

I remember an old Sherlock Holmes movie. It was one of the great ones with Basil Rathbone as Sherlock Holmes, made back in the 40s. To me those, while not in keeping with the novels and short stories (I have read them all- another interest of mine). At any rate, in one of these movies, Holme say something like this:

"A true collector buys but never sells."

My brother and I used to tease each other about that line because we were both somewhat similar in that way, he even more so than myself.

My Unitrons are not now, nor ever as long as I am living, for sale. (At least not for any reasonable price.)


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mikey cee
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: Rich (RLTYS)]
      #5783556 - 04/07/13 11:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

As the old saying goes. Never do anything that will bite you in the ars later in life. Barry is about to learn this lesson in life




Starman876, please don't make me have to lock this thread. KEEP IT FRIENDLY.

Rich (RLTYS)


Ah c'mon RLTYS I just popped up a fresh batch!!

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BarrySimon615
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5783595 - 04/07/13 11:29 AM Attachment (7 downloads)

Terra,

I am a big fan of Basil Rathbone as Sherlock Holmes too, as well as the stories as originally written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. (4 as's in one sentence, how about that!) However I digress, back to the subject.

I too have often thought, boy that is one that I will never sell. Said that about my Model #152 Unitron when it originally was purchased new by me back in 1986. About 6 years later I acquired a Brandon 130 f/8 apo which was essentially a scope that melded "same as Unitron 5" hardware (focuser, objective cell, Uni-clamps, shortened Unitron tube, etc., etc." with an Astro Physics supplied apo triplet objective. That telescope literally blew the 4" Unitron out of the water but nevertheless I managed to hold on to the 4" Unitron for another 8 or 9 years until it was sold primarily because of non-use.

That 5" Brandon was also one that I thought I would never sell, but guess what, it is gone too. Primarily due to non-use. It was with out a doubt, the best looking telescope that I ever had, see photo.

I do wax nostalgic about some of these long gone "mistresses of the night", but their sale gives me the opportunity to flirt with other nice telescopes. One constant however, since I renewed my interest in astronomy back in 1978 has been my Jaegers "home-built" 6" f/5. Now that is one "old gal" that has been with me a long time and we have had many adventures together.

Picture is of the 130 mm f/8 Vernonscope Brandon with a home-built 75 mm guidescope using Unitron components. The tube assembly with all rings, finders, guidescope and Uniclamp rings weighs in at 33 lbs. No mounting holes are drilled in the tube, Uniclamps do all the work. The scope rides on a Losmandy/Celestron G11, one of the first available, purchased in 1992.

Barry Simon


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highertheflyer
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: BarrySimon615]
      #5783678 - 04/07/13 12:15 PM

We are all our own telescope's appraisers and all of us, as telescope appraiser's, a dime a dozen.
Looking back at Antique Roadshow and Pawn Star "expert" appraisers, I wonder what infighting those ranks consist?
Thank goodness for Barry's attempts to place these mixes together and thank you Barry in your attempts.
Keep it up.
Jim


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dgreyson
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: terraclarke]
      #5783770 - 04/07/13 01:05 PM

Quote:

I remember an old Sherlock Holmes movie. It was one of the great ones with Basil Rathbone as Sherlock Holmes, made back in the 40s. To me those, while not in keeping with the novels and short stories (I have read them all- another interest of mine). At any rate, in one of these movies, Holme say something like this:

"A true collector buys but never sells."

My brother and I used to tease each other about that line because we were both somewhat similar in that way, he even more so than myself.

My Unitrons are not now, nor ever as long as I am living, for sale. (At least not for any reasonable price.)




Dog of Flanders!!! I just told Caveman I couldnt bear to trade him my live Dodo for his Holy Grail because, 'sigh', I must have hording tendencies.

Thank goodness, I'm a true Collector, not a miserable horder. I feel much better now.


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starman876
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes new [Re: dgreyson]
      #5783781 - 04/07/13 01:10 PM

Hey, I am just teasing. I am not trying to be nasty.

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starman876
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Re: Establishing Fair Prices for Classic Scopes [Re: starman876]
      #5783794 - 04/07/13 01:19 PM

I know I have been the voice of let's not do this. However, I hope that it does provide some insight into what people think these scopes are worth to people who have no clue. Maybe some of us are opposed because the list will tell us our scopes are worth less than what we think. some will see they are worth more than they thought. And the worst thing that could happen is that the ones you have up for sale are compared to the list and people tell you that you are asking too much. Thats about it

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