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Equipment Discussions >> Refractors

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telescopemullet
professor emeritus
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Reged: 11/16/09

Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? *DELETED* new [Re: fjs]
      #5803287 - 04/16/13 06:09 PM

Post deleted by Scott in NC

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mikey cee
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/18/07

Loc: bellevue ne.
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5803293 - 04/16/13 06:14 PM Attachment (38 downloads)

Jim my lens was delivered by UPS. I was a nervous wreck until it arrived and I opened it up. That doesn't mean I want raise the odds against me sending it again...this time a round trip. I have no desire to have it tested because I can detect no reason for needing or wanting to do so. It performs very well in everything that I have done with it. The first .5" double(72 Pegasi)I split was able to show me an intermittant gap between the airy discs. The CA around Jupiter was way much less than I was expecting even when going from an 8" F/13.3 to a 10" F/11 R30. The GRS and GRSJR(AB oval) showed just as easily as before with detail within the GRS. I could detect albedo features on a near perfect night on Ganymede at 815x. I could go on but I'm very satisfied to say the least. But I went out on a limb to buy this not waiting for someone else to do it for me. That in itself is no guarantee that the next one out of the chute will be the same or not. All of us Istar purchasers did it on our own. Yeah I didn't have a lot of choices true. But I didn't want to wait 2 years for a D&G at nearly $1500 more. I just went on a good vibe that I felt from e-mails with Ales and other anecdotal bits from other new owners. Tim Wetherell replaced the Mt. Stromlo's damaged 9" refractor and had nothing but good things to say. He also has a personal 8" Istar lens in his personal scope. If you choose to wait have at it. Me I chose to move on with life because money can be replaced but time can't. Maybe I got lucky maybe I didn't and that this will be indicative of the norm with the larger lenses...who knows. At this point it's kind of "so what" to me. Mike

Edited by mikey cee (04/16/13 06:30 PM)


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: mikey cee]
      #5803375 - 04/16/13 07:01 PM

"He also has a personal 8" Istar lens in his personal scope."

Bad data. Tim's personal 8-incher is a *very expensive* TEC triplet, not an Istar. The Mt. Stromlo replacement optic was an Istar, though.

See this article about Tim's 8" (200mm) TEC triplet:

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=2760

Tim's website (he's an excellent artist):

http://timwetherell.com/

There's more about his personal 8" TEC in the "Great Wetherell Refractor" section. Just click the pictures.

There's also an article on the Oddie Refractor II (on Mount Stromolo) on Tim's home page. It's a 220mm f/15 using a lens sourced from Istar and a tube assembly made by Tim.

I assume your purpose in making the quoted (mis)statement, right was to suggest that because Tim chose an Istar for his personal scope, they must be great lenses. Now that we know that he did NOT choose an Istar for his personal scope, but instead opted for a very fancy premium lens, should we conclude that he didn't think Istar was good enough for him personally?

Anecdotal and inferential information about who owns or does not own what instrument, or who likes or doesn't like what they own, isn't very valuable to understanding the optical quality of an instrument. There are all kinds of reasons people like or dislike things they own, and those reasons aren't always based on empirically measurable fact. That's precisely why having a large pool of publicly available neutrally and consistently derived test data is potentially so valuable to consumers. With enough tested samples it would very quickly separate the genuine diamonds from the marketing horsepoop, and keep more than a few branders honest and realistic about what they are selling.

I don't see how such data could in any way be bad (other than to horsepoop vendors), nor do I see how owner anecdote or inference from buying behavior is in any way a substitute for such bench test data on the question of optical quality.

Regards,

Jim


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mikey cee
Postmaster
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Reged: 01/18/07

Loc: bellevue ne.
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5803409 - 04/16/13 07:20 PM

Jim excuse me I made a mistake having not seen his article in some time. But where or how do you figure these pools of satisfied customers get started. By folks like yourself who sit back and second guess and let others put their toe in the water first? By people who go first on their own. I don't want to be a part of the other crowd who sit back and want someone else to take the risks. Mike

Edited by Scott in NC (04/17/13 05:43 PM)


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: telescopemullet]
      #5803413 - 04/16/13 07:21 PM

"Many here have stated they re good scopes."

True. And at a Domino's Pizza Lovers convention, every participant would swear up and down that the Dominos has the best pizza in the world. It doesn't make it true. I think people who are not pre-disposed to believe everything a vendor tells them would prefer a little more rigorous and methodical data on the question of quality.

And I do think "ego" explains quite a bit of the silliness in this thread. But not in the manner you suggest. Rather, I think there are a bunch of fan boys who have their egos wrapped up with their Istars so tightly that the merest suggestion that Istars might not be all that becomes a personal affront against them. In that regard, Istar has become something like a "Stellarvue II" phenomenon, and I suspect that fact actually gets in the way of getting more reliable data out there about these telescopes which, in turn, tends to hamper sales rather than to encourage them.

I won't promise to make you happy, nor that my methods will be perfect, but I will promise to be truthful and as rigorous in my evaluation of a 4" Istar against other 4" refractors as I can possibly be given my time, skills, and the materials at my disposal, and even more importantly to share the details of the observations on which my conclusions are based. That's not as good as a Rorh bench test, admittedly, but it is a heck of a lot better than slavish insistence that something must be great because you own one or must not be so hot because you don't. The goodness or badness of a thing is wholly unrelated to who owns one. I'm ready when you are to pay to send your Istar lens off to Herr Rohr. You just let me know when. Then we'll both *know* the truth.

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: mikey cee]
      #5803452 - 04/16/13 07:59 PM

Mike, yep color me not a big fan of "blind faith". P.T. Barnum hated folks like me. Fortunately for him there were plenty not like me. He died a very wealthy man.

Being an early adopter can have either of two results. The early adopter can get lucky and get good value and high quality for his risk, or the early adopter is unlucky and gets poor value and low quality for his risk. I don't think the "early adopter" status is meaningful or relevant in the least. One thing is always true about early adopters though. Version 2.0 is always superior to version 1.0 because the manufacturer addresses issues that come to light with early adopter use. Typically improved feature sets, additional content and a lower price are what early adopters miss out on.

It's the "did he get good or bad quality/value" that I care about and that I think the OP was looking for. That's my point. What harm is there in being rigorous, deliberate and transparent when comparatively evaluating these optics against alternatives? Worst case, the comparative data will be at odds with the glowing owner praise, in which case those owners will still be just as happy as they were before the contrary opinion was issued. Best case, the comparison data supports the glowing owner praise, in which case we have the same result - happy owners - and also a potential for more "data-driven" buyers joining the fold. I don't think sales acceleration will happen so long as the Istar Scope Club regulars are the only ones advocating and plugging these scopes. The large number of Istars popping up in the used channel, too, has some potential buyers spooked.

I'm kind of hoping the 4-incher I am borrowing will stack up well to the other 4-inchers I have. That might inspire me to bite on a 6" f/8 Istar Perseus or 6" f/5 Istar Ares to compare it with my current 6" f/5.9 Kunming and then to keep the optically better of the two.

Regards,

Jim


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tomcody
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5803511 - 04/16/13 08:48 PM

Jim,
Two weeks ago I e-mailed Rohr at the contact address on his web site requesting a quote for testings a 6" Istar and if the entire scope was needed or just the lens in cell ( to save shipping costs). So far he has not replied. If he does, I will forward the quote to you.
Rex


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Joe Bergeron
Vendor - Space Art


Reged: 11/10/03

Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5803564 - 04/16/13 09:32 PM

Quote:

Or was it delivered on the back of a giant Lunar Moth




Bah, they are Luna Moths, not "Lunar Moths". Your atrocious blunder has devastated your credibility in every conceivable matter.


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Jim Curry
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/29/07

Loc: STL
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5803613 - 04/16/13 10:12 PM

"The large number of Istars popping up in the used channel, too, has some potential buyers spooked."

I've seen three 6" Istar scopes for sale this year. All the sellers praised the optics, 2 complained about the weight. The third, the f/15 in this site's classified, showed a photo. I think it's self explanitory, it's a monster. I have an f/12. You're beyond grabngo. It's more like approach, grasp, maneuver. And that's after a path is cleared and doors set ajar. Me thinks folks are finding a 6" a little more than their mounts can handle.
Jim


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tomcody
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: Jim Curry]
      #5803729 - 04/16/13 11:38 PM

Has anyone obtained one of the Perseus TCR 150 F12's yet? the truss frame interests me, if so? how stiff is the frame in use?
Rex


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telescopemullet
professor emeritus
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Reged: 11/16/09

Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5803763 - 04/17/13 12:04 AM

Quote:



And I do think "ego" explains quite a bit of the silliness in this thread. But not in the manner you suggest. Rather, I think there are a bunch of fan boys who have their egos wrapped up with their Istars so tightly that the merest suggestion that Istars might not be all that becomes a personal affront against them.

Jim




Your post illustrates perfectly your bias towars istar scopes users. You continue to cast both in dubious light.

Edited by Scott in NC (04/17/13 05:47 PM)


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: tomcody]
      #5803765 - 04/17/13 12:06 AM

He should need only the objective. He has pictures on the website of refractor objectives in his test bed. Lemme know what his price plus shipping and insurance each way and I'll Paypal the funds to your account or cut you a check. I appreciate you being willing to do this, Rex. I think it will be helpful to a lot of fence sitters. Thank you.

Regards,

Jim


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buddyjesus
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 07/07/10

Loc: Davison, Michigan
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5803769 - 04/17/13 12:11 AM



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tomcody
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 07/06/08

Loc: Titusville, Florida
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5803774 - 04/17/13 12:19 AM

Jim,
I am not commiting to anything yet. I was shopping for an Istar until a deal on a FS128 came along, so now I am happy with that. But we will see what kind of costs are involved in testing. For me an Istar means not only a scope purchase but a larger mount as well, ( the FS128 rides very well on my Meade LXD650).
But, as I said in another post the Perseus TCS 150 F12 interests me and that one could ride on a G11 which is do- able both from a weight and cost stand point!
Rex


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houser23
sage


Reged: 10/26/09

Loc: Rocklin, CA
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: buddyjesus]
      #5803780 - 04/17/13 12:24 AM

Well, when I wake up tomorrow this thread will either be removed for review or heavily edited

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mikey cee
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/18/07

Loc: bellevue ne.
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5803799 - 04/17/13 12:45 AM

Quote:

He should need only the objective. He has pictures on the website of refractor objectives in his test bed. Lemme know what his price plus shipping and insurance each way and I'll Paypal the funds to your account or cut you a check. I appreciate you being willing to do this, Rex. I think it will be helpful to a lot of fence sitters. Thank you.

Regards,

Jim


I got a more direct way for you Jim. Instead of using Rex as a potential guinea pig why don't you buy an Istar 6" lens. Then load up your PayPal account, insure the lens and send it off to Rohr. Mike

Edited by Scott in NC (04/17/13 05:51 PM)


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Daud
sage


Reged: 08/05/06

Loc: AZ, Scottsdale
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5803800 - 04/17/13 12:45 AM

Would the person who is borrowing the scope to you sell the scope for his purchase price, so as after you are done testing, it can be tested by others, maybe Rohr ?
Just asking..


Quote:

He should need only the objective. He has pictures on the website of refractor objectives in his test bed. Lemme know what his price plus shipping and insurance each way and I'll Paypal the funds to your account or cut you a check. I appreciate you being willing to do this, Rex. I think it will be helpful to a lot of fence sitters. Thank you.

Regards,

Jim




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Daud
sage


Reged: 08/05/06

Loc: AZ, Scottsdale
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: houser23]
      #5803803 - 04/17/13 12:46 AM

Quote:

Well, when I wake up tomorrow this thread will either be removed for review or heavily edited



I have a screengrab


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chaoscosmos
sage
*****

Reged: 01/26/13

Loc: Mission Viejo CA
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: Daud]
      #5803852 - 04/17/13 01:46 AM

This thread is past its expiration date.

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Scott in NCAdministrator
80mm Refractor Fanatic
*****

Reged: 03/05/05

Loc: NC
Re: Istar refractors Pros and Cons? new [Re: chaoscosmos]
      #5805081 - 04/17/13 05:54 PM

After some judicious editing, this thread is now being returned to the forum. I'd like to ask that everybody refrain from any further personal attacks, which will be deleted without further warning. Keep it civil, guys. It's not like we're discussing life or death matters here. I mean, c'mon, they're just refractors!

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